Wolverine VS Cyclops

Originally posted by King_Mungi
not really as where is the mention of lightspeed, and we know these gravitons have mass.

Proof? and no you can still prove that by comments or examples of it's speed. A face to face QS dodged a wide spread blast. That doesn't scream to me lightspeed.

Proof of what? Gravitons are theoretical particles, yet to be observed. However in quantum theory they move at c. Comics are static images. Your "comment" of that Cyclops power bio, along with the numerous properties the blast has akin to photons support a speed of c.

Has anyone ever dodged a blast from Dazzler? I think so. Does that mean her powers aren't light speed, despite being.. you know... light?
Argument from personal incredulity is a logical fallacy.

Edit.

Originally posted by batdude123
1. You're reaching BIG TIME.

2. There are no "different types" of gravitons. They are what they are.

3. Since they are massless, when they move the travel at "c"

Reaching? none of you guys have provided anything to indicate lightspeed.

Not really as shown their concussive blasts. Without mass they wouldn't be doing much. Where does it state they move at C? because what you provided said nothing of the sorts

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Gravitons are conduits of force, like photons, but are massless, like photons. There isn't anything that says that these gravitons have mass, you've simply made that assumption.

Proof of what? Gravitons are theoretical particles, yet to be observed. However in quantum theory they move at c. Comics are static images. Your "comment" of that Cyclops power bio, along with the numerous properties the blast has akin to photons support a speed of c.

Has anyone ever dodged a blast from Dazzler? I think so. Does that mean her powers aren't light speed, despite being.. you know... light?
Argument from personal incredulity is a logical fallacy.

Actually I even read a comic that had him stating his blasts have mass, Classic X-Men was the title, I'll try to find the issue later but I'm heading out for the night.

Yes they are particles, but not all partciles are equal. I asked for proof where it states they move at lightspeed, and you gave me nothing.

a wide spread lightblast? no. Cyclops can tag anything in his vision with the supposed light-blast yet continually misses.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Reaching? none of you guys have provided anything to indicate lightspeed.

Not really as shown their concussive blasts. Without mass they wouldn't be doing much. Where does it state they move at C? because what you provided said nothing of the sorts

Actually I even read a comic that had him stating his blasts have mass, Classic X-Men was the title, I'll try to find the issue later but I'm heading out for the night.

Yes they are particles, but not all partciles are equal. I asked for proof where it states they move at lightspeed, and you gave me nothing.

a wide spread lightblast? no. Cyclops can tag anything in his vision with the supposed light-blast yet continually misses.

You're welcome to google and search graviton and lightspeed, gravitons move at luminal or superluminal velocity under current models.

Regardless of whether Cyclops' blasts move at lightspeed, he does not move and react at lightspeed. You need to move beyond the dodging thing because its not a solid argument. Lasers, bullets, lightning, everything gets dodged by people far slower than the projectile.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Reaching? none of you guys have provided anything to indicate lightspeed.

Not really as shown their concussive blasts. Without mass they wouldn't be doing much. Where does it state they move at C? because what you provided said nothing of the sorts

Yeah, actually you ARE reaching.

Gravitons are theoretical particles that have no mass, and have no charge. According to the quantum theory, gravitons act in the same manner as photons (as they are connected and are both part of the four fundamental forces of the universe) EXCEPT instead of carrying electromagnetic energy, they carry gravitational force. As such, the particles travel in waves and also travel at the speed of light. And, according to the 'string theory' the four forces (strong and weak force, em energy, and gravitons) all have the same equations.

Gravitons do indeed travel at the speed of light. There is no getting around that, and there aren't different types of 'gravitons.'

And simply because something doesn't have mass doesn't mean it can't be destructive. You have to understand that these are comic books. Look at Dazzler, and Magneto. EM blasts coming from Magneto are 'c' but they're still destructive enough to blow up cities and the like.

Btw, the "Classic X-Men" title you're referring to is before the retcon in which his blasts come from a different universe.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Proof? and no you can still prove that by comments or examples of it's speed. A face to face QS dodged a wide spread blast. That doesn't scream to me lightspeed.

QS may have moved before Scott had a chance to "pull the trigger". The blasts themselves may be lightspeed, but there is still a delay (reflex speed) between seeing a target, and shooting the target.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And as noted, the blasts have been redefined over the years. Gravitons are massless conduits of force.

You're welcome to google and search graviton and lightspeed, gravitons move at luminal or superluminal velocity under current models.

Regardless of whether Cyclops' blasts move at lightspeed, he does not move and react at lightspeed. You need to move beyond the dodging thing because its not a solid argument. Lasers, bullets, lightning, everything gets dodged by people far slower than the projectile.

yeah it was said in Classic X-Men, however, your right it could have been retconned when the changed the source of his blasts so moot

No I asked you

I did, but the QS is a solid point. He can attack anyone in his sight and stil missed. QS at that time wasn't that fast

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, actually you ARE reaching.

Gravitons are theoretical particles that have no mass, and have no charge. According to the quantum theory, gravitons act in the same manner as photons (as they are connected and are both part of the four fundamental forces of the universe) EXCEPT instead of carrying electromagnetic energy, they carry gravitational force. As such, the particles travel in waves and also travel at the speed of light. And, according to the 'string theory' the four forces (strong and weak force, em energy, and gravitons) all have the same equations.

Gravitons do indeed travel at the speed of light. There is no getting around that, and there aren't different types of 'gravitons.'

And simply because something doesn't have mass doesn't mean it can't be destructive. You have to understand that these are comic books. Look at Dazzler, and Magneto. EM blasts coming from Magneto are 'c' but they're still destructive enough to blow up cities and the like.

Btw, the "Classic X-Men" title you're referring to is before the retcon in which his blasts come from a different universe.

No I asked for proof...and...nothing again

No, not all elecmagnetic energy move at light-speed, and not all particles have the same properties. That's a stated fact, I just want to see some proof, why do people keep avoiding that?

Proof?

But their modified to become offensive, such as when classic Guardian explained his powers he had to modify the E-M spectrum to be allowed to make it offensive.

It's not a solid point. Period. Something being dodged does not infer it's speed. Bullets. Lasers. Dazzler.

I reiterate, are you asking that the existence and speed of propogation of a theoretical physical particle must be proven to you personally?
Do you intend to give whoever does it 10 million kronor and a shiny medal with Alfred Nobel's profile on it... because otherwise... not really worth it.

EM radiation always propogates at c in a vacuum, and regardless of the speed of the observer. That is a stated fact of physics, and the basis of special relativity. You stating something as fact... not so much.

I wait and I wait...I'm not even bothering reading half the stuff anymore as I asked for proof and have received none.

"EM radiation always propogates at c in a vacuum", on Earth as Guardian explained before he had complete control over the E-M spectrum couldn't go c

Argument from personal incredulity doesn't really cut it. Gravitons are theoretical massless conduits of gravitational force that propogate at luminal or superluminal velocity. If Cyclops' optic blasts are gravitons, they therefore propogate at c.

Guardian overrides that everywhere in the Marvel Universe (and the real universe) electromagnetic radiation propogates at the speed of light?

...Let me get this straight, we must prove the speed of gravitons?

And Quicksilver thing doesn't really count, he is faster then Cyclops visor speed or reactions.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
...Let me get this straight, we must prove the speed of gravitons?

And Quicksilver thing doesn't really count, he is faster then Cyclops visor speed or reactions.

Yes, as you guys said it's widely stated it goes "c". I just want to see this, and that's it. No more, no less.

He was directly in front of him, and others much slower than QS have dodged him before

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Argument from personal incredulity doesn't really cut it. Gravitons are theoretical massless conduits of gravitational force that propogate at luminal or superluminal velocity. If Cyclops' optic blasts are gravitons, they therefore propogate at c.

Guardian overrides that everywhere in the Marvel Universe (and the real universe) electromagnetic radiation propogates at the speed of light?

Just because they are massless doesn't necessairly mean they move at c, and I'm not even sure if his blasts are maseless.

No, because different particles have different abilities. Not all are equal and not all have the same properties.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yes, as you guys said it's widely stated it goes "c". I just want to see this, and that's it. No more, no less.

He was directly in front of him, and others much slower than QS have dodged him before

You keep repeating others much slower... not that it actually matters because dodging something in comics doesn't really provide any inference on the speed of the projectile... but to whom are you referring exactly?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Just because they are massless doesn't necessairly mean they move at c, and I'm not even sure if his blasts are maseless.

No, because different particles have different abilities. Not all are equal and not all have the same properties.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
See what? Gravitons moving at c.

You keep repeating others much slower... not that it actually matters because dodging something in comics doesn't really provide any inference on the speed of the projectile... but to whom are you referring exactly?

😐 Photons are the particles that serve as the conduit of electromagnetic force and they propogate at c. As do gravitons under current theoretical models.

Proof that graivtons have at c ie speed of light. You havn't provided evidence

Unnamed goons at a bar when Cyclops temporally left the team, then there is Wolverine, QS, Shaman, various villians and heroes throughout the X-Men series.

Photons do, but where is it stated gravitons do? not all particles are equal.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Proof that graivtons have at c ie speed of light. You havn't provided evidence

Unnamed goons at a bar when Cyclops temporally left the team, then there is Wolverine, QS, Shaman, various villians and heroes throughout the X-Men series.

Photons do, but where is it stated gravitons do? not all particles are equal.

"Gravitons are supposedly massless particles, which would travel only at the speed of light. When these particles were intercepted, and re-exchanged, gravity would be the intended result."

http://www.geocities.com/recycling_universe/ed_gravitons2.htm

There, now shut up about it. 😛

My Comprehension < Science ermm

Originally posted by Grimm22
My Comprehension < Science ermm

Obviously. 😛

Originally posted by batdude123
Obviously. 😛

Only on sundays 😄

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Proof that graivtons have at c ie speed of light. You havn't provided evidence

Unnamed goons at a bar when Cyclops temporally left the team, then there is Wolverine, QS, Shaman, various villians and heroes throughout the X-Men series.

Photons do, but where is it stated gravitons do? not all particles are equal.

Which time when Cyclops left the team? QS isn't someone much slower than QS. Moot point besides. I was just curious.

Meanwhile Cyclops has tagged Northstar... but that of course doesn't count... just because....

Yes indeed photons do... which is why all electromagnetic radiation propagates at c in a vacuum as photons are the massless carriers of electromagnetic force. Likewise gravitons are the theoretical equivalent for gravitational force, massless and propagating at c.

Ironically you yourself have provided the most convincing evidence for Cyclops optic blasts moving at c. 😬