And I would bet they weren't using speed. When Gladiator did fight Thor, using his speed, he knocked Mjolnir from his hands and pretty much pounded the piss out of him. Thor's lack of super speed is his weakness and thats why I give those type of guys a good chance at beating him. Whether Surfer can speedblitz or not is irrelevant. He's fast enough to never get hit.
I'd go with the Sufer in this one. The reason is he has gone against beings far stronger than Thor and either held his own or knocked them out. Now Mjolnir might be able to negate most of the Surfer's energy attacks (assuming Thor actually uses it to its full potential) and he does have more h2h experience than the Surfer, but if the Surfer is also fighting up to his true potential then I think he could easily surpass Thor in terms of strength and durability.
Durability:
Surfer has not only survived going through a sun but also a black hole. Consider the forces he would have experience, it is a very impressive durability feat.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-15.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_134p05.jpg
And as to the fight itself, as I said the Surfer has taken on beings far stronger and tougher than Thor. Here he fights Krosakis who has absorbed the powers of Gladiator and the Uni-power (so we are talking about a being who has 50 times the strength and durabilty of Glads). Not only did the Surfer take hits from him and not get k.o.'ed but he actually managed to make the guy bleed.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-06.jpg
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http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-11.jpg
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http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-15.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
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http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg
Originally posted by Ytaker
Does regular Thor have the God Force which beat Galactus in normal form?
Yes. Regular thor would defeat the surfer as he has in the past. Surfer himself admitted that Thor is tops in power. Marvel has been pretty consistent on this one. However, it wouldnt surprise me to one day see captain america taking out thor or the surfer. Marvel has a nasty habit of pandering to the low lifes.
The first time Thor and Surfer fought, Surfer had already been drastically depowered from his encounter with the sonic shark...this was done to prep Surfer for his own series (he was considered too powerful to be a leading character--too hard to write stories for, since he was confined to Earth).
FF#72 - Surfer (referring to the sonic shark): "It has...almost totally drained me...of my cosmic power."
FF#74 - Surfer (speaking as he blasts Galactus' Punisher): "Though my own power is but a fraction of what it once had been...perhaps I can still muster a strong enough atom-compacting thrust!"
FF#76 - Surfer (while being attacked by the FF): "Though I no longer possess the limitless powers of the cosmos...still am I the Silver Surfer!"
FF#77 ... SS debuts for first time in his own mag--referred to in this FF issue.
SS fought Thor, what, 4th issue of that series? Based on the continuity from the FF mags, clearly, Surfer was not in top form. Even with Loki's power added, he was still not what he was (he fought Loki to a tie, implying the best Loki coulda done was simply double Surfer's current power level...still far less than his pre-sonic-shark days).
The second time SS and Thor fought, Thor had warrior madness--which increased his power Ten Fold! And still, SS was able to hold his own until the very end.
Thor does not have Surfer's durability nor his speed, and while he may have some power versatility, Thor generally punches and hammer-smashes. When he does use his most powerful blasts, it also takes a few seconds or so for Thor to "warm-up" (like when he used his power against a weakened Galactus). Surfer not gonna give him those seconds.
Tough fight. But Surfer wins, more often than not.
Originally posted by Mindship
The first time Thor and Surfer fought, Surfer had already been drastically depowered from his encounter with the sonic shark...this was done to prep Surfer for his own series (he was considered too powerful to be a leading character--too hard to write stories for, since he was confined to Earth).
FF#72 - Surfer (referring to the sonic shark): "It has...almost totally drained me...of my cosmic power."
FF#74 - Surfer (speaking as he blasts Galactus' Punisher): "Though my own power is but a fraction of what it once had been...perhaps I can still muster a strong enough atom-compacting thrust!"
FF#76 - Surfer (while being attacked by the FF): "Though I no longer possess the limitless powers of the cosmos...still am I the Silver Surfer!"
FF#77 ... SS debuts for first time in his own mag--referred to in this FF issue.
SS fought Thor, what, 4th issue of that series? Based on the continuity from the FF mags, clearly, Surfer was not in top form. Even with Loki's power added, he was still not what he was (he fought Loki to a tie, implying the best Loki coulda done was simply double Surfer's current power level...still far less than his pre-sonic-shark days).The second time SS and Thor fought, Thor had warrior madness--which increased his power Ten Fold! And still, SS was able to hold his own until the very end.
Thor does not have Surfer's durability nor his speed, and while he may have some power versatility, Thor generally punches and hammer-smashes. When he does use his most powerful blasts, it also takes a few seconds or so for Thor to "warm-up" (like when he used his power against a weakened Galactus). Surfer not gonna give him those seconds.
Tough fight. But Surfer wins, more often than not.
i have a couple problems with this -- aside from the PIS that this 'shark' could somehow limit ss's power for such a very long time . . . 🙄 -- (1) there was never a mention anywhere or a 'RETURN' to his former power level. so . . . when do we say he was again at full power? (2) during that same time frame -- in that same series -- he battled well against mephisto and the stranger among other cosmic menaces. he also easily stomped the hulk. (3) he himself stopped referencing that 'shark' incident. thor was effortlessly absorbing ss's bolts at the start of that fight and at the end when ss admitted that thor's hammer was more powerful than his power cosmic (as it should be of course, seeing as how it IS skyfather level) he didn't add -- 'it's more powerful than my power cosmic because it is not as strong as it used to be!' or -- 'if only i had my full power, i could have defeated him!' also, throughout that whole fight, thor was holding back because he thought ss was a friend! this again was acknowledged by ss himself.
i still don't see why thor can't simply absorb ss and drain him to weaken him enough to get the ko. presence is a very powerful energy wielder -- he blasted thor, thor absorbed and KEPT absorbing until he could have killed him. nothing presence could do broke the drain. after all, it's not THOR absorbing -- it's his hammer. mjollnir>ss. one blast, mjollnir sucks him dry. something very similar happened to kang.
as for warrior mad thor -- he was pretty much toying with ss and still ko'd him. when he was really po'd he crushed ss AND warlock simultaneously. but that thor is totally different, obviously . . .
i still say thor wins the majority if he's written well.
Originally posted by leonidas
i have a couple problems with this -- aside from the PIS that this 'shark' could somehow limit ss's power for such a very long time . . . 🙄 -- (1) there was never a mention anywhere or a 'RETURN' to his former power level. so . . . when do we say he was again at full power? (2) during that same time frame -- in that same series -- he battled well against mephisto and the stranger among other cosmic menaces. he also easily stomped the hulk. (3) he himself stopped referencing that 'shark' incident. thor was effortlessly absorbing ss's bolts at the start of that fight and at the end when ss admitted that thor's hammer was more powerful than his power cosmic (as it should be of course, seeing as how it IS skyfather level) he didn't add -- 'it's more powerful than my power cosmic because it is not as strong as it used to be!' or -- 'if only i had my full power, i could have defeated him!' also, throughout that whole fight, thor was holding back because he thought ss was a friend! this again was acknowledged by ss himself.i still don't see why thor can't simply absorb ss and drain him to weaken him enough to get the ko. presence is a very powerful energy wielder -- he blasted thor, thor absorbed and KEPT absorbing until he could have killed him. nothing presence could do broke the drain. after all, it's not THOR absorbing -- it's his hammer. mjollnir>ss. one blast, mjollnir sucks him dry. something very similar happened to kang.
as for warrior mad thor -- he was pretty much toying with ss and still ko'd him. when he was really po'd he crushed ss AND warlock simultaneously. but that thor is totally different, obviously . . .
i still say thor wins the majority if he's written well.
Surfer is my main man...and oddly enough, I agree with much of what you're saying.
FF#72 is probably my favorite SS story: SS seeking to unite humanity by providing us with a common foe. Yet, there are problems with the story. Aside from the peripheral contradiction involving the Torch (when SS fights the Torch, it is stated that SS moves with "a speed which the flaming youth cannot even hope to match..." yet later when the shark is chasing the Surfer, and the Torch says "But it's too fast for him..." the Torch himself is zipping around, keeping pace w/o strain whatsoever), the whole idea that humanity can build a weapon which can 1) pace and 2) harm Galactus' greatest herald is extremely far-fetched.
Yet it did happen.
Or did it?
I too have noticed not a single shred of reference to the shark ever again once Surfer began his own series. It was as if the power he was at in his first series was always his natural power level. This, I feel, is PIS to the max.
Plus, my impression of Thor back then was that he was regular Thor, certainly not Odin's superior. And yes, I remember Surfer making that comment about Thor's power against his own...but again as if the whole sonic shark incident never happened.
As for warrior madness Thor--IMO, it didn't look like Thor was "toying" with him, not going by his facial expressions. And there were a few instances when Surfer could have struck but didn't (one where Thor was spinning his hammer, revving up, and two, when Thor hurled his hammer and missed, and while it was returning to him, Surfer did not fire a second bolt--the first one also having missed!).
There is also much info in your final statement: if Thor is written well. As a rule Thor fights either by pummeling with his fists or throwing his hammer; the more sophisticated stuff generally doesnt happen until he figures "Thor smash!" aint working. This has been fairly consistent. Surfer could well take advantage, especially since he is usually quicker to use more sophisticated means of disabling a foe.
It's a tough call, and good points can be made for either to win. Though Marvel has made its decision, I still feel--my bias aside--that Surfer is the superior (if not by much).
Originally posted by Mindship
Surfer is my main man...and oddly enough, I agree with much of what you're saying.FF#72 is probably my favorite SS story: SS seeking to unite humanity by providing us with a common foe. Yet, there are problems with the story. Aside from the peripheral contradiction involving the Torch (when SS fights the Torch, it is stated that SS moves with "a speed which the flaming youth cannot even hope to match..." yet later when the shark is chasing the Surfer, and the Torch says "But it's too fast for him..." the Torch himself is zipping around, keeping pace w/o strain whatsoever), the whole idea that humanity can build a weapon which can 1) pace and 2) harm Galactus' greatest herald is extremely far-fetched.
Yet it did happen.
Or did it?I too have noticed not a single shred of reference to the shark ever again once Surfer began his own series. It was as if the power he was at in his first series was always his natural power level. This, I feel, is PIS to the max.
Plus, my impression of Thor back then was that he was regular Thor, certainly not Odin's superior. And yes, I remember Surfer making that comment about Thor's power against his own...but again as if the whole sonic shark incident never happened.
As for warrior madness Thor--IMO, it didn't look like Thor was "toying" with him, not going by his facial expressions. And there were a few instances when Surfer could have struck but didn't (one where Thor was spinning his hammer, revving up, and two, when Thor hurled his hammer and missed, and while it was returning to him, Surfer did not fire a second bolt--the first one also having missed!).
There is also much info in your final statement: if Thor is written well. As a rule Thor fights either by pummeling with his fists or throwing his hammer; the more sophisticated stuff generally doesnt happen until he figures "Thor smash!" aint working. This has been fairly consistent. Surfer could well take advantage, especially since he is usually quicker to use more sophisticated means of disabling a foe.
It's a tough call, and good points can be made for either to win. Though Marvel has made its decision, I still feel--my bias aside--that Surfer is the superior (if not by much).
your point is well taken about wm thor v ss. he did beat ss and warlock together though and rather easily once he'd decided enough was enough. that whole arc was . . . iffy, though, in my book.
and i agree ss can certainly win a few. the speed issue in particular could be a problem. as has been well documented thor's speed has been inconsistently portrayed at best. and in that same fight we were discussing, thor throws his hammer and misses him. at first, it seemed NIETHER would be able to hurt the other. thor absorbing, ss dodging . . .
the bit about thor being a brawler is actually less true than it is perceived to be though. there are many instances where thor has used his brain and power set to win fights that he couldn't otherwise. he also knows ss quite well, and would likely know clubbing him wouldn't get him too far.
i agree -- tough fight. ss is your man, thor's has ALWAYS been mine (along with herc and spidey in marvel). hence, i give a slight majority -- 6/10, to the god of thunder!!
and here ends the 'nicest' debate ever in the kmc! 😄
Originally posted by leonidas
your point is well taken about wm thor v ss. he did beat ss and warlock together though and rather easily once he'd decided enough was enough. that whole arc was . . . iffy, though, in my book.and i agree ss can certainly win a few. the speed issue in particular could be a problem. as has been well documented thor's speed has been inconsistently portrayed at best. and in that same fight we were discussing, thor throws his hammer and misses him. at first, it seemed NIETHER would be able to hurt the other. thor absorbing, ss dodging . . .
the bit about thor being a brawler is actually less true than it is perceived to be though. there are many instances where thor has used his brain and power set to win fights that he couldn't otherwise. he also knows ss quite well, and would likely know clubbing him wouldn't get him too far.
i agree -- tough fight. ss is your man, thor's has ALWAYS been mine (along with herc and spidey in marvel). hence, i give a slight majority -- 6/10, to the god of thunder!!
and here ends the 'nicest' debate ever in the kmc! 😄
cheers
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm going with Surfer on this one. His power is just...incalcuable really. Don't get me wrong, Thor is one bad mofo (seriously though, I know he's mad powerful), but Surfer is just more powerful.
Surfer's power is incalculable? Thor defeated him every time they fought and when he wasnt holding back, he did it easily. Surfer is just a herald who's power has very real limits. He has cut loose on Thanos and Thanos barely flinched. Thor has certainly made Thanos do more than flinch. I like the Surfer, he's a great character, but Marvel has been pretty consistent for decades regarding Thor>Surfer.
Originally posted by dvampire
I'm going with Thor, everything Surfer has can be countered by Thor as stated above.
Originally posted by aliveinboston
Surfer's power is incalculable? Thor defeated him every time they fought and when he wasnt holding back, he did it easily. Surfer is just a herald who's power has very real limits. He has cut loose on Thanos and Thanos barely flinched. Thor has certainly made Thanos do more than flinch. I like the Surfer, he's a great character, but Marvel has been pretty consistent for decades regarding Thor>Surfer.
Surfer's power does have a limit, but in this fight, the difference that it will make is slim to none. It's debatable whether Surfer really fights against Thanos, or if he jobs simply because it's Thanos. By all accounts, Surfer is a billion times faster, and much more versatile. Thanos would have the edges in blasting power, strength, and durability, but it should at least be a very even fight.
I respect leo's opinion, but I think he's thinking too much about simply Thor. You said that, written well, Thor should win 6/10. However, you really have to consider what fighting "well" is for the Silver Surfer. In terms of speed, he IS Flash. I have yet to see Wally perform a single feat that I can't counter with an equally impressive Surfer one. Written "well", Thor wouldn't be able to touch him.
Surfer has a lot more versatility than Thor. His matter manipulation is on a much higher scale than Thor's so I really don't see how Thor would ever succeed in breaking out of an inch thick bubble of adamantium, as Surfer has transformed air into rock before.
Thor is a beast. He is easily more powerful, (GODFORCE) and the energy absorption would be a huge help to him, especially against a guy like SS. However, this tactic assumes that Surfer fights one dimensionally, and immediately goes for a simply blast every time, and also assumes that Surfer is NOT using his massive speed advantage.
Fighting in character, Surfer probably would go for a blast and ignore his speed. However, Thor would probably counter, as Mindship stated, by swinging his hammer around. Both are easily powerful enough to put the other down fairly quickly, so in character, I can see a very, very close match. As you climb towards their absolute potential, however, Surfer pulls ahead of Thor by a good margin, IMO. Surfer should take at least 8 of 10.
