[list][*]Theism: belief in (my) God.
[*]Agnosticism: don't know if any gods exist.
[*]Atheism: denial of (my) God.
[*]Agnostic Theism: belief in a god without claiming to know for sure that the god exists.
[*]Gnostic Theism: belief in a god while being certain that this god exists.
[*]Agnostic Atheism: disbelief in gods without claiming to know for sure that none exist.
[*]Gnostic Atheism: disbelief in gods while being certain that none (can or do) exist.[/list]
I'm not an overly religious person, and I'm certainly not a 'Christian'. I do believe theres something out there...I'll call it God for sake of argument. Thats not what I call it in real life, but just for this post.
I used to be a skeptic...an agnostic if you will. Society tends to try and pound its version of religion into people, which is why independent thinkers such as ourselves shun it and claim we need some kind of 'proof' before we will believe. It took me a long time to realize it, but you don't have to follow ANY of the religions that various mainstream societies preach. Its about believing in what you think is out there, not interpreting someone elses version of it from church or the bible or the synagogue or whatever. My faith 'borrows' from stuff as varied as Native American beliefs, Eastern and Greek mythology, Christianity and even Star Wars.
Agnostics, I'm telling you, youre going to be waiting awhile for proof. Faith is not rewarded with physical manifestations of belief...Heck, thats Rule One, and anyone over the age of 16 should know it.
Faith isn't given to you. You don't receive it for a 'job well done' and theres no real physical proof of it..except that feeling you have inside that something is out there whispering in your ear every once in a while. All those people in church, all the televangelists and jerks that come knocking on your door spreading The Truth...thats not religion, its blind, mindless devotion. Theres definitely a difference.
In the end, religion is a manmade concept. It was created to explain the stars and volcanoes and keep people safe at night when it was cold and dark and beasts were howling in the distant hills.
I have no misconceptions that my faith is going to grant me an eternally happy afterlife. In that I'm not so much an agnostic as I just don't know and don't see the need for guessing. Whatever happens will happen. Faith, to me, is just a feeling that things will be alright, even when they don't seem like they will.
i'm neither agnostic nor an atheist...but i do have a 'faith' in God...religion for me is time consuming and unwarranted..."go to church you'll go to heaven"...where in the bible does that say? every individual has his/her own way of interpreting what reality is or isn't...and neither way is right or wrong, it is your own opinion and belief....not mine nor his but yours...the reason for my 'faith' is that science and philosophical ideology cannot always explain the complexities of our physical universe seen or unseen...it is enough for me to know this without going into the mind boggling reasoning of cause and effect of where it all began...life itself is difficult enough as it is...
if you doubt or wonder about your own existence and as to what happens afterwards...then that is the beginning of true knowledge...
Originally posted by Creechuur
In the end, religion is a manmade concept. It was created to explain the stars and volcanoes and keep people safe at night when it was cold and dark and beasts were howling in the distant hills.
Religion is every bit as manmade as science. Its the precursor to science. Before we advanced far enough to explain things with gravity and mass and soundwaves and whatnot, we just said "it must be the Gods doing". Then 'Gods' became 'God'. Then 'God' became 'Darwin' and Adam went from being the son of God to the decendant of a monkey. As soon as DNA is 'unlocked' by scientists I forsee that science will be the new 'God'. Its been shaping up that way for decades now, it'll happen soon, maybe in our grandchildrens lifetime.
Really, whats the difference between science and religion??? What proof do you have that science is any more 'real' than religion? Sure, you can see a molecule, but its only a molecule because thats what we named it. God is only God because thats what we named it. Theyre just two ways of explaining the same thing. Being a 'scientist' to me means that you are a follower of the scientific religion. Instead of the 10 commandments, you have physical laws.
Theres no proof that anything is real. All the theories and units of measurement and 'laws' that have been used to explain reality are manmade. Science is no more or less real than religion, you just get a detailed description of what scientists think is going on, where as with priests you get blind faith.
You have faith that gravity keeps you planted on the ground just as a Christian has faith that he will go to Heaven if he's good. Its all just different ways of describing our experience here. I don't think any one is right...in fact I think all religions and sciences have their truths, you just have to weed them out and put them together.
Theres a big difference between an Agnostic and an agnostic... with a capital A it implies the belief that man can never have true knowledge of God... with the small a it means a hope that something is there, without being sure what, or a doubting of the persons "birth-faith..." Its like the differnce between being Christian or being a christian... most fall into the latter camp... they might go to church, they give eggs at easter and prezzies at christmas, but ask what the bible says and....
And I'm a pagan by the way, of the Norse variety, as have been my family for hundreds of years...
Sigh...
There is a staggering difference between science and religion. Somewhat tiresome to see that lazy comparison done again. They are exceedingly different concepts, as is clear from anything more than a cursory glance. Science is self-sceptical. It is deliberately fallible. It is designed to change as time goes by. It makes no universal claims. All its laws have to be demonstrable- it has nothing to do with faith or belief. Religion is the opposite, for good or bad.
A scientist does not need to have faith in gravity- s/he can demonstrate and PROVE its operation. And that is the only thing s/he is interested in doing- showing what can be shown, not trying to find a way to show something he has previously assumed. A Christian's faith in going to Heaven is just that- faith, and by design, cannot be shown or proven- that is the point; it wouldn't actually work very well if it could be. These two concepts are quite staggeringly different.
Just because science SOMETIMES shares the same metaphysical grounding as religion- an attempt to explain the world around us- does not make them even remotely similar things. Maybe a long time ago, but not now.
That is why hardcore scientists and hardcore religious followers cannot agree. They cannot understand the position of the other and there is no room for middle ground. We have seen it at these very forums time and time and time again.