Vader Vs. Dr. Doom

Originally posted by Wynndar
-the force only exists in one galaxy
-only people from that galaxy can use force
-when people from other galxies travel to SW galaxy they cannot access the force
-the force was supposed to have created that galaxy but not in the continuity of the other galaxies of that universe, and not in a big bang?
-the SW galaxy does not possess the same laws of physics or entropy as the rest of the universe but still manages to have the same kind of galaxy and solar systems and planets whos orbits rely on entropy and physics in our universe
-the force has never demonstrated any cosmic level type feats in its chronology except at the beginning when it ALLEGEDLY created a galaxy
-CHARACTERS who wield the power cosmic and greater powers have destroyed and created planets, stars, galaxies, and whole universes(Franklin Richards created a whole universe without demonstrating any difficulty)
-Luke Skywalker strains to pull a lightsaber 5 feet into his hand
-Luke Skywalker beats Vader? (albeit he is more adept in using the force at this point)
-Luke cuts off Vader's mechanical hand?
-lightsabers create archs of gravitational energy
-Vader can absorb any amount of energy using the force?

read the newer books in "the new jedi order". The force created everything in the universe (including the universe itself, and there is only ONE universe). Things from diff. galaxies are just effected by jedi's knowledge and weilding of the force differently.

Originally posted by Wynndar
-Vader can suck the life from beings in his galaxy with force grip or force lightning (irresistable)
-Vader has never attempted Force lightning or force grip on beings from Marvel universe
-Doom is more intelligent and inventive than any character in the star wars universe
-Dooms mind has let him defeat omnipotent beings like the beyonder who could create or destroy galaxies and allegedly destroy the whole universe with no effort
-Doom's intelligence would find a way to defend himself from the force
-Doom would defeat Vader
-the power cosmic is more powerful than the force

i have yet to see anything that cosmic itself can do that the force can't. And vader has done lightning in the comics (which is what we are discussing)

You basically just refuted two or three points, and ignored the rest. great strategy.

because most of the other points had nothing to back them up... "doom would find a way to beat vader" wow.... impressive point there. I'm guessing inspector gadget could now destroy silver surfer?

actually there are lots of theories going both ways...there is new data suggesting our universe is very finite actually...and some people still think it is infinfinite...most evidence still suggests a big bang...what is most important is entropy which is the pattern followed by the whole universe...

-I never said that Marvel let Star Wars cross over, learn how to read
-I was refering to people in the star wars universe that travelled to that galaxy from another galaxy, they cannot access the force
-the force did not create the marvel universe it created the Star wars universe...
-there is no power cosmic in star wars, power cosmic is omnipotent in marvel universe, power cosmic is dominant in star wars universe = there is no force in marvel universe, force is dominant in star wars universe, force is dominant in marvel universe....=invalid logic
-I said plenty of things the force hasnt done...most of all it hasnt done anything of great magnitude since the begining of its continuity(creation of star wars universe), people in marvel universe can use the power cosmic to all of the effects I listed any day of the week...
-individuals in marvel universe can access more power than characters in the star wars universe
-creating a universe is cool...im glad the force managed to do it..Franklin Richards did it and he is in elementary school
-Marvel characters are more powerful than star wars caracters

...by the way, I didnt say Vader couldnt use force lightning..In fact i said he could, and that it was unstoppable against plain old little star wars guys thats what i meant by (irresistable)...are you still having trouble with the reading thing?

"-Vader can suck the life from beings in his galaxy with force grip or force lightning (irresistable)"

Doom wins...I listed some ways up there too if ever read it

"but dont characters from other galaxies that go to the SW galaxy have no access to the force since it only exists in that one galaxy?"

i thought you meant comic crossovers... seeing as there are multiple "SW Galaxies". And you are right, the other chars cannot access the force like jedi can, but the force does still effect them (later books in New Jedi Order) and the force does exist in (and created) their galaxy.

"the power cosmic is dominant in star wars galaxy". that's impressive, seeing as it doesnt exist there.

true, the force hasn't done too much.... except for that thing about destiny and constantly being in control of everything in the universe at the exact same time. No Biggie.

individuals drawing on power from something doesn't prove too much for the power itself. It is much harder to even moderately control something extremely powerful than it is to greatly control something that is moderately powerful

and sure, people in marvel have created alternate universes. But in SW continuity, alternate universes don't exist. It is a very impressive feat, i will admit, but when something doesn't exist at all in a story its hard to compare it to that.

and yes, in general, marvel chars are more powerful than SW chars.

What does Vader have without the force and what does Doom have without power cosmic?

old vader might as well be in his grave. Young, pre-accident might stand a chance since he is in great physical condition and could most likely build a pretty impressive artillary for himself that might stand a chance against doom (he was building pod racers and druids when he was 9... and pod racers are more complicated than most star ships)

I just want to raise a query; does Dr Doom have access to the power cosmic? This is a one on one duel, not with the addition of the Silver surfer's power. Amusingly enough, if Doom has that, then Darth Vader gets the emperor’s power, and can force blast Doom with the sheer magnitude of it (otherwise, Vader collapsing midway through the attack, and Doom dodging it). But, does Doom have Cosmic in a fair duel?

Vader can steal the Emporer's power? Because if he can, then he gets it. Dr. Doom has stolen Silver Surfer's power, Galactus' power, AND Beyonder's power. Doom has in fact been omnipotent to a degree.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Vader can steal the Emporer's power? Because if he can, then he gets it. Dr. Doom has stolen Silver Surfer's power, Galactus' power, AND Beyonder's power. Doom has in fact been omnipotent to a degree.

You seem to misinterperate me. I am saying that the Silver Surfer's power is just that; the Silver Surfer's. If you want SS Vs DV then post up another choice. Here we have Doom Vs Vader

yes but doom has access to the power cosmic, just as vader has access to the force, he just needs to take abit more time to get it

Doom DOESN'T have access to the power cosmic. The argument involving the power cosmic was between which power was greater, the power cosmic or the force, as this was to address some posters who CLAIM that the Force is more power than the power cosmic (which doom has usurped).

As for Vader with the Emperor's power Vs. Surfer Doom (Dr. Doom after stealing SS's powers), Doom would win. Why? Surfer Doom did more than SS could've dreamed. He utilized the power cosmic to it's fullest and was able to freeze time and other things. SS might have been a competent herald - but Doom mastered & utilized the Power Cosmic beyond what Surfer could.

Dr. Doom > Vader
Power Cosmic > The Force
Surfer Doom > Emperor Vader (Vader with Emperor's powers)

One tinsy problem with a superpowered dark Vader losing. If a life draining blow hit the mortal part of any being, it doesn't matter how much power they have. Doom proved this when he outmanouvered the Beyonder.
Dr. Doom> Vader- true
Power Cosmic> The force- in a direct conflict maybe, but the force can sneak behind cosmic and destroy the user, as Doom proved. His life> a universe.
Surfer Doom> Emperor Vader- If Vader hits Doom, Doom dies. If Doom hits Vader, Vader dies. It's like a sabre match before they outlawed fleches. They charge, double hit.

Now a person already prob said this but since im a die hard Vader fan i woul have to go with vader on this one Vader litteraly he would brak his neck without his hands AANd choke him to death so i would have to go with the Dark Lord Of The sith DARTH VADER

Nataku, at least im not like THIS guy ^

Originally posted by Darth Nizzle
Now a person already prob said this but since im a die hard Vader fan i woul have to go with vader on this one Vader litteraly he would brak his neck without his hands AANd choke him to death so i would have to go with the Dark Lord Of The sith DARTH VADER

fanboy... no offence

I think people r starting to get the point...although some people are so bias they cant read my posts in the right context...the Force is great and is the top force in a universe where the characters are flesh and blood humanoids...but the power cosmic just operates in a universe of more powerful characters and the Force just cant compare...Doom still beats Vader, he operates on this higher level...Vader is great at cutting up and force gripping weak as mortal rebel soldiers...however, Doom has humbled cosmic beings, outwitted omnicient beings, and subjugated Omnipotent beings, its just his nature... George Lucas has said himself that he modeled Vader's appearance and persona off of Dr Doom...if i were Doom I would be very flattered
Doom still wins

That's an awesome picture, did it actually come from a Doom vs. Vader fight??

I haven't read a lot of Doom comics, but if the Fantastic Four keep beating him, I don't see how Doom would have much success against Vader. Vader can easily stop his energy blasts and guns, etc. Furthermore, Vader *who did not use many of his force powers in the movies* would be able to crush Doom within his own armor using the Force Grip. Even though Doom's armor is strong *adamantium? I don't know* it would not be sufficient to protect him.

wrathofachilles

That's an awesome picture, did it actually come from a Doom vs. Vader fight??

I haven't read a lot of Doom comics, but if the Fantastic Four keep beating him, I don't see how Doom would have much success against Vader. Vader can easily stop his energy blasts and guns, etc. Furthermore, Vader *who did not use many of his force powers in the movies* would be able to crush Doom within his own armor using the Force Grip. Even though Doom's armor is strong *adamantium? I don't know* it would not be sufficient to protect him.

DREAM...ON! Obviously you know nothing about Doom and had not even bothered reading some of the arguments and points made. Doom would kill Vader. Vader is just a Dr. Doom ripoff.