Originally posted by Ytaker
I know my arguments aren't perfect, but you're dismissing some of them unfairly. Read back a bit and you'll find somebody says that magic is stopped. Private message them about it to find out the truth. If they can't remember a single thing, then they can tell me and I’ll accept defeat in this arena
Finally, you haven't answered my question. How the heck did Doom conquer the world, in a non-silver surfer capacity?
But it’s true, Doom steals other peoples powers. But that’s how he fights. Some use light sabres, other use theft.
Originally posted by Kontraz
see, this is what you guys aren't paying attention to.... the force is the strongest entity/power/etc in any continuity. it is existance itself. Vader's USE of the force is not. Vader's USE of the force is weaker than the poewr cosmic, yet the force itself is INFINATELY greater.
also, how do you suggest doom "blast a hole right through vader"? Vader has stopped a turbo laser with his hand (no, not the one han shot at him, the same kind of turbo lazer used on star destroyers).
There is no evidence that the force is greater than the power cosmic seeing that there is no presence of the power cosmic in the Star Wars Universe...it is very irrational to say that the force is more powerful than the power cosmic because it is the most powerful presence in its own universe...by that logic one could say: the power cosmic is one the strongest forces in the Marvel universe and thus stronger than the Force because the SWU does not have the power cosmic in it...thus it makes you sound like a fanboy and u frustrate people... however I was simply stating that Doom had humbled a being like the beyonder...someone who could create and ignite billions of stars, create matter itself... no one in the SWU even Kyp Durron who has demonstrated some very powerful manipulation of the force could do this...nor could the Force itself in my opinion...could the force create and ignite an entire galaxy in the blink of an eye?...honestly, keep it real...well Doom has at one point had enough power to do it...thats how i think he would be able to defeat Vader...when Doom was wielding that kind of power he could just imagine Vader not existing anymore, there that would end Vader...and its not magic and its not something that the Force would have any say in...when Doom had taken the power of Galactus, he was immediately overwhelmed by the fact that his thoughts became reality...his environment started to totally morph into any thought that came into mind...he found it amazing that Galactus was able to mentally control this ability, and he was eventually able to also...this was exponentially more of a problem after conquering the beyonder's power which was exponentially if not infinitely greater than Galactus'.
but again like i said earlier...the force is inferior to the power cosmic, seeing that its manipulators still exchange chemicals and energy with their environment to survive...proof being that Vader is on a respirator... Doom would not need any cosmic energies at all to beat vader. Doom's Armor could protect him from any force lightning or light saber assault long enough for him to disable Vader's respirator with a techno organic or bio chemical attack which could then infect vader's body and kill him seeing that he still exchanges with the environment he could be poisoned very easily (unlike a cosmic being). and further more why didnt Vader's ability to absorb energy save him when Luke cut off his robotic hand? lightsaber produce highly powerful archs of gravitational energy according to the Star Wars encyclopedia ...that sounds like an energy attack that Vader couldnt absorb...further more saying that Vader could absorb Doom's blast is very narrow minded considering that Doom's would likely be more complicated than simple blaster fire u see in star wars... since Doom is far more intelligent than anyone in the SWU he usually employs more complicated methods than simply blasting someone with electricity or plasma...he often employs a device that eliminates the orbits of subatomic particles which results in what appears to be a "dissintigrator"... he is not blasting an enemy with energy, in fact it is the presence of no energy, I cant see how Vader would absorb an absence of energy ( not possible, like trying to catch up to an object by slowing down)...how would vader react to Doom stealing all of his warmth?...does Vader have the ability to warm himself up or spontaneously create heat in his cells? let me know cuz i dont recall that he can...or how about Doom infinitely slowing down vader's metabolism until he is just a statue (he did this to the Thing once)...i dont see how Vader could win this battle, he is so one dimensional...a great character and villain but he is too simple...like i said, Doom doesnt need the power cosmic to beat vader, but he could use it if he wanted to...all he really needs is his greatest weapon: his intelligence, which makes Vader's look very puny
further more...are you trying to suggest that the SWU does not follow the big bang theory or the same laws of physics that apply to our universe?...the SWU appears to exist in another galaxy but not another universe man....thats why the movies open to "in a galaxy far far away"... not a galaxy in another dimension or universe, where there are no laws of physics or entropy...well the marvel universe does possess entropy and the laws of physics and they have explained the creation of the universe....are you saying that the force just made everything appear instantly and fully developed during your "birth of the universe"? and that there is no such thing as entropy? cuz if that is the case then i respect the force and the star wars universe and all the material outside of the actual films (which are personally some of my favorite pieces) about as much as i respect dragon ball z...i think i know what your saying but i think you should develop your argument a little more...and i said plenty of things the force cannot do that the power cosmic does: how about give a person the ability to fly or evolve past a form that does not exchange with the environment...how about creating and destroying galaxies in the middle of a universes' continuity...the Force may have created the SWU (although it didnt and you have already destroyed your own argument and may not know it yet) but it has never created or destroyed or changed anything or done anything incredible like the power cosmic within the chronology of its own SWU.
Originally posted by Wynndar
further more...are you trying to suggest that the SWU does not follow the big bang theory or the same laws of physics that apply to our universe?...the SWU appears to exist in another galaxy but not another universe man....thats why the movies open to "in a galaxy far far away"... not a galaxy in another dimension or universe, where there are no laws of physics or entropy...well the marvel universe does possess entropy and the laws of physics and they have explained the creation of the universe....are you saying that the force just made everything appear instantly and fully developed during your "birth of the universe"? and that there is no such thing as entropy? cuz if that is the case then i respect the force and the star wars universe and all the material outside of the actual films (which are personally some of my favorite pieces) about as much as i respect dragon ball z...i think i know what your saying but i think you should develop your argument a little more...and i said plenty of things the force cannot do that the power cosmic does: how about give a person the ability to fly or evolve past a form that does not exchange with the environment...how about creating and destroying galaxies in the middle of a universes' continuity...the Force may have created the SWU (although it didnt and you have already destroyed your own argument and may not know it yet) but it has never created or destroyed or changed anything or done anything incredible like the power cosmic within the chronology of its own SWU.
Quite good arguments, and I like how you demonstrate the power of cosmic, and I'd like to describe to you my theory of it.
Cosmic is the basic universal power, the force behind energy. It is extraordinarily powerful, and is always able to surpass barriers. The force is different. It is life, the power flowing through the universe. It is far greater than Cosmic in the right hands; It's how Dr Doom won against a greater being. It is always in us in a passive way, and when a Jedi uses it, they don't do things that a passive way couldn't. Most of the time. It joins them to other objects, and lets them use life. I need an analogy.
A waterfall. A display of power as millions of joules of energy pulsates down a rock face. This is cosmic. If you get in it’s way you will die. Your force will end. But, if you climb up the rock face, swim to the junction, dig a channel to a watermill, the power is yours. It would take an extraordinary being. In a fight, Dr Doom cannot easily force that human who did that task to give him his power, or die. Even if he has a cruise missile (made of cosmic and weakly force power), that human will not surrender, and will almost certainly find a way to avoid it. That is the best picture you can have of a force user. Still, with Dr Dooms potent passive force, ands decent active cosmic Doom should win.
Originally posted by Wynndar
yea well whatever, vader still wouldnt survive any of the non cosmic assualts from Doom that I mentioned...this isnt a the force vs the power cosmic thread...its a Doom vs Vader....i see why other people complained about you responging without reading their posts and criticizing your intelligence
actually, i do read all the posts reguarding arguements i'm part of. I just get tired of people repeating the same information and treating it as if it was something new. YOU should go back and read the page after page of "force vs cosmic" without acting like you're the first one to mention the thing. Hell, i used the same exact arguements, as did you... it got us nowhere!
Originally posted by Nataku8188
They are saying the force is more powerful then the power cosmic, except there is no force user strong enough to to manipulate it on the same level as the power cosmic.
you forget about the first dark jedi.... whatever his name was... he could probably take on silver surfer...
Kontrazyou forget about the first dark jedi.... whatever his name was... he could probably take on silver surfer...
😘 First Dark Jedi? I highly doubt he's stronger than Surfer. Then again since we're using weilders of the power cosmic I'd pit Tyrant against your so called First Dark Jedi.
Tyrant > Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Beta Ray Bill, Terrax, Jack Of Heart