Originally posted by The Omega
Linkalicious> No, women’s pain threshold IS higher than men’s. We have to give BIRTH fer Chrissake! So women can, generally speaking, take more pain than men. What’s teh problem with that for you. Men are, generally, stronger than women.“Child birth...as painful as it may be. It not nearly as fatal as an assualt rifle wound to the stomach.” Do yourself a favour. Go out and research the amount of women who’ve died during child-birth during the ages, and compare that number to the number of men who’ve died on the battlefield.
Are you basing your argument on a MOVIE? Would you rape or abuse a woman who’s away from her home??? Or what are you trying to say?
For Chissake! What are you getting at? Your statement about giving birth doesn't strengthen your arguement. Males are not physically built to deliver babies. We don't have a birth canal, so unless you are asking us to give anal babies...then stop using birth as some sort of measurement of your pain threshholds. Mens hips are also narrower than women's also...too narrow....to squeeze a child through.
I use bullet wounds to the stomach because aside from having a huge hole blown into you, the bullet is also hot and it burns your insides, and it also releases stomach acids into the open wound. Things that I'm sure all of you women are down playing in the physical pain department. You act like a bullet (AK from my arguement) that is longer than your pinky entering you at 350+ mph is just a day in the park. Please! You couldn't stay conscious while they fixed you up....you'd have to be doped up beyond any sedative they give you during child birth.
I'm not going into your arguement about birth rate through "the ages" because "ages" isn't defined well enough for me. Also, information on gunshot wounds to the stomach isn't going to help my arguement because .22 bullet wounds aren't nearly as fatal, and information on assault rifle wounds to the stomach is too difficult to find. Use a ratio to strengthen your arguement. The sheer volume of births to gun shot wounds is apple to oranges. And so it's safe to assume the number of deaths for each would be apples to oranges also. Like I said....give me a ratio, and you'll find my point is proven.
I'm not even going to get into how completely and utterly insulted I am by your comment about me raping women. I'd never rape a woman, and I'd gladly put myself in any woman's place that was being abused because women deserve to be treated better.
Ok, we won't go there with A MOVIE. I forgot, military men are completely well mannered gentlemen. Military men who would stack up 13 Iraqi prisoners naked to take pictures are clearly incapable of such a heinous act as rape. Or to further back my obviously ridiculous claim...how about the Female GI who was rescued from a hospital in Iraq. She's got a book out, maybe you should read it and tell me if she's lying. I hear she broke her leg, arm, and back. She was beaten and abused...and just for good measure....the enemy RAPED her several times.
But heaven forbid humans would ever do such a thing....right?
❌
Once again, the usual members have allowed their blown up egos and pompous attitudes get in the way of a respectable thread.
You all think you're right, you always resort to underhanded comments, and it's becoming increasingly tiring.
You know exactly who I'm talking about, and I don't give a damn if I'm out of line this time. BackFire closed a good thread only yesterday because of this reason.
Valid point Sy.
I propose this. We stop the giving birth vs. hit in the nuts arguements and talk all together. Men don't have the appropriate equipment to relate, and neither do women.
THAT is why I have been using the gunshot wound to the stomach in my arguement...because both males and females can be shot in the stomach, and how they cope with the pain is a better example of each individuals pain threshold. Now if conclusive proof can be given that women don't require as much sedative as men or if someone has some sort of proof that women complain about the pain of the injury less than me....i'm pretty sure my theory that EACH INDIVIDUAL HAS THEIR OWN THRESHOLD REGARDLESS OF SEX...would be difficult to disprove.
And I don't want to use this as any part of my arguement...so please don't reply or make comment to this. How are Lils and Omega any authority on the pain involved in child birth if they themselves have never been pregnant or given birth? This is of course to the best of my knowledge of them. So how are they an authority on the figure. I'll respect Shellie's opinion anyday. She's a mother of 4.
Originally posted by badkittykitty
in the states they are now.I have a girl friend who is in the marine reserve..the thing is with the way war is today (guns rather than swords) they should be allowed to fight in battle..but I do believe they can not be in the same units as men because both men and women would be messing up their military mind set and getting in to romantic relationships and stuff..it wouldn't work.
That's what I was thinking bkk. Putting men and women in the same frontline or same unit may not be a good idea. We don't really know if their personal behavior can get in the way of battle. Soldiers followed orders in war, but there are times in which soldiers don't follow commands or disobeyed them. So is gamble putting males and females in the same battlefront for long periods of time.
Linkalicious> Well, you were the one who brought up the gun-shot wound to the stomach, as if the possibility of that on a battlefield somehow gave men a higher pain-treshold than women.
Newsflash: Nature didn’t wire us genetically to shoot each other in the stomach! But it did build women to give birth. So you point is ridiculous and useless here.
Hm. There are a lot of things you’re “not going into”, after which you still reply. Would you make up your mind?
And , again, you brought in a movie to back up a point of yours, regarding the possibility of rape of a woman who was “away from home” (Mind explaining what you mean here. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.). A movie, I’m sorry to say, isn’t valid backing for an argument unless it’s a complete replica of real events.
Why not do some research into the topic, and show us how many women are subjected to abuse instead of using fiction?
“I forgot, military men are completely well mannered gentlemen.” Well, I sure hope they are. Not very good for the Iraqis if military men are assholes with no morals.
?? It’s not the Jessica Lynch story you’re trying to tell me. Are you?
Ladygrim> Sure, the individual should decide him-/herself if he/she wants to join the military. But it won’t do anyone any good putting a moron to do intelligence work, nor put a weakling to carry heavy weight.
Originally posted by The Omega
Linkalicious> Well, you were the one who brought up the gun-shot wound to the stomach, as if the possibility of that on a battlefield somehow gave men a higher pain-treshold than women.
Newsflash: Nature didn’t wire us genetically to shoot each other in the stomach! But it did build women to give birth. So you point is ridiculous and useless here.
You didn't need to continue did you? Birth, yada yada yada, nothing can change the fact that women give birth and men don't. It's nature. Pointless arguing about it then, am I right?
Hm. There are a lot of things you’re “not going into”, after which you still reply. Would you make up your mind?
And , again, you brought in a movie to back up a point of yours, regarding the possibility of rape of a woman who was “away from home” (Mind explaining what you mean here. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.). A movie, I’m sorry to say, isn’t valid backing for an argument unless it’s a complete replica of real events.
Why not do some research into the topic, and show us how many women are subjected to abuse instead of using fiction?
“I forgot, military men are completely well mannered gentlemen.” Well, I sure hope they are. Not very good for the Iraqis if military men are assholes with no morals.
I see your point there though Omega. Link, you stated at the very start of your previous post that you were up for stopping the petty discussion, then proceeded to give your opinions all over again, simply reiterating them in another way. Why?
But, Omega, with regard to the Military Men being well mannered gentlemen, how can you possibly believe this? Link pointed out some very good examples of our military having been evil and callous, do you literally wear rose tinted glasses? They do rape the Iraqi women, they do beat and torture the men,women and children, and as much as they may seem polite and well mannered to us, they treat our enemies as nothing more than mere animals. It's disgusting, but it's been proven.
Male and female brains process pain differently. It is far from clear what pain means to either sex. Moreover, pain researchers question whether or not men and women even perceive pain in the same way.
(The pain perceived at giving birth is relative and differs from woman to woman. Up to 40 per cent of women in UK hospitals have an epidural while giving birth. However, the figure varies considerably from hospital to hospital.)
Just as some men are not meant to be in the military, some woman should not be but it's up to each person to decide that for themselves.
hi!
Please read the Caps in my post.
I'm not trying to prove that men have high pain thresholds than women. I'm trying to suggest the possibility that "EACH INDIVIDUAL HAS THEIR OWN THRESHOLD REGARDLESS OF SEX." You are the one who is adament about one sex having a higher pain threshold than another.
I don't see why a gunshot wound to the stomache would not be valid. Both males and females can get them, so they are capable of feeling that same pain of having a bullet lodged into them. Men can't have babies, so for all we know it's a day in the park. Obviously i try to be opened minded and imagine the pain to be quite excruciating, but you won't have any of that either. Child birth is now apparently more painful than anything a man will ever feel. pfft.
Read the paragraphs and stop trying to be such a prissy little wise mouth. I don't go into how pissed I am about you questioning me about rape, i don't bring up the movie again, and i don't go back into "the ages." Your ability to try and belittle people with your apparently "vastly superior" intellect doesn't impress me. You're just like the rest....now sit down and pay attention I've still asking for 2 1/2 more minutes of that three minute I was bitching about earlier or is listening for 3 minutes actually that impossible?
"Not very good for the Iraqis if military men are assholes with no morals." and.....how does stacking up prisoners into a naked dog pile not suggest that military men are assholes? k...thanks. 😄
Yes Jessica Lynch, i know you watched the movie on Oxygen or Life or whatever pro-woman, anti-male network you spend your hate filled hours watching...but she also has a book. That is as close as you're going to get to a "complete replica of events" though it's a story being retold, and not a movie being made.
Jessica Lynch...got raped and sexually abused by her captors. No Fictional movie about that sweetie. Things like that happen...men are assholes...things like what happen in Irreversible and Monster are capable of coming true. Even if they aren't completely accurate...the thought that a female is incapable of being sexually abused by her country men or captors is more ridiculous to me than the possibility that it could happen.
clap
Brent, you can be such a b!tch when provoked. But I don't think any of that was unfair, apart from perhaps where you cussed her Feminist ways. Up to her, totally.
Omega, I know from reading a lot of your posts that you are knowledgeable in many, many subjects, and articulate with it, but is it really so hard for you to believe that perhaps there are other members here on KMC with the same level of intellect as you, perhaps some with even higher??
I'm a dick. If it wasn't known before this discussion...then let it be known now.
It's just between her "NEWSFLASH" which is an obvious attempt to make me feel more ignorant. And her "make up your mind" comments...i've managed to get a little upset.
That and it also pisses me off that these girls are so adament in the belief that "women have higher pain thresholds than men." Because everyone's different as Storm stated.
This discussion is supposed to be about women on the battlefield, not giving birth. Whether our bodies were genetically engineered to handle a gunshot wound or not doesn't matter at all in this arguement. A pain causing injury isn't supposed to be something your body is genetically engineered to handle. If your body was made to handle that pain, then bullet wounds wouldn't hurt and you would still be fully functional with the bullet in your body. You get shot when you don't expect it and whether your body is ready or not, atleast in pregnancy a woman is given 9 months to prepare.
Now for you Mods sake. I will stop posting in this thread entirely.
I'm sorry to anyone that I have offended with my comments. In particular i would like to apologize to TheOmega for some of the nastier comments i have made. The Omega....I'm very sorry for any and all of my hateful and bashing comments.
Please hesitate to close this thread because I still think that good discussions can be had by some of the other members.
Thank you all, and have a good day. *gives self a cookie*
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Absolutely. 👆Like I said previously, wmen fought in wars long before alongisde men and they will continue to do so. Rome had female gladiators, there were amazons, Greek had female warriors, Persians even had a female military leader...if women chose to fight, then they should be allowed.
I'm not sure about the amazonic women. 😕
I think those were only stories told by the poets like Sappho to inspired women in those days. Many of the poets were very influenced by Sappho's work so it was very likely that they wrote those stories as tributes to her.
Female gladiators in Rome were not as common as the male gladiators. So there is little known about them (I'm not saying they didn't exist, but there isn't enough information about them)
Originally posted by Cyclops
I was once told (and I think I posted this before) about a female who tried to join her local Fire Station. She was not accepted because she failed to carry a 100 lbs bag of sand down a ladder. She brought them to court, won, and became a fire fighter at that station.If a women is capable of fulfilling all of the qualifications of, well, anything... then do it! Go ahead! If you cannot meet the specs., then sorry.
so then, if an injured man who happens to weigh more than a 100 pounds is trapped inside a burning building and the only one there is this woman who cannot lift that amount would have to what???...wait for her crewmates to help???
anyways...i cannot argue with the pain threshold aspect of the last couple pages for opinions differ and each one of you are passionate about that subject...
as for serving in the frontline, they should be allowed to if they meet the physical requirements...unfortunately most bootcamps are not built that way as grueling as it is...however most of the time they are also trained to help each other out during such times as war...or in training exercises...
while no man is bred to fight wars, they do however have higher testosterone levels and are far more aggressive if they are in a situation as war(some not all)...but...that doesn't mean a woman is incapable of doing the same...
the danger lies in the way boys are raised in a society that expects us to always protect women...in times of peace...imagine that in times of war...but then, that's my opinion
if yours differ, then more power to you
Originally posted by WindDancer
I'm not sure about the amazonic women. 😕I think those were only stories told by the poets like Sappho to inspired women in those days. Many of the poets were very influenced by Sappho's work so it was very likely that they wrote those stories as tributes to her.
Female gladiators in Rome were not as common as the male gladiators. So there is little known about them (I'm not saying they didn't exist, but there isn't enough information about them)
Some examples of ancient woman warriors:
Queen Artemisia
Artemisia, queen of Herodotus' homeland of Halicarnassus, gained renown for her brave, manly (according to Herodotus) actions in the Battle of Salamis, in which she allied herself with the Persian Xerxes and against Greece.
Queen Boudicca
When her husband Prasutagus died, Boudicca became queen of the Iceni in Britain. For several months during A.D. 60-61 she led the Iceni in revolt against the Romans in response to their treatment of her and her daughters. She burned three major Roman towns, Londinium (London), Verulamium (St. Albans), and Camulodunum (Colchester). The Roman military governor Suetonius Paullinus suppressed the revolt.
Queen Samsi
A Midyanite, Queen Samsi rebelled against Assyrian King Tiglath Pileser III (745 - 727 B.C.) by refusing to pay tribute. After fleeing, she was defeated and forced to pay tribute to Tiglath Pileser.
Queen Tomyris
Tomyris became queen of the Massegetai upon the death of her husband. Cyrus of Persia wanted her kingdom and offered to marry her for it, but she declined and they fought each other, instead. Cyrus tricked the third of Tomyris' army led by her son, who was taken prisoner and committed suicide. Then the army of Tomyris ranged itself against the Persians, defeated it and killed King Cyrus.
Trung Sisters
After two centuries of Chinese rule, the Vietnamese rose up against them under the leadership of two sisters, Trung Trac and Trung Nhi, who gathered an army of 80,000. They trained 36 women to be generals and drove the Chinese out of Viet Nam in A.D. 40. Trung Trac was then named ruler and renamed "Trung Vuong" or "She-king Trung." They continued to fight the Chinese for three years, but eventually, unsuccessful, they committed suicide.
Queen Zenobia
Third century queen of Palmyra (in modern Syria), Zenobia claimed Cleopatra as ancestor. Zenobia started as a regent for her son, but then claimed the throne, defying the Romans and rode into battle against them. It took almost 4 years of battles and sieges before her capital city of Palmyra fell. She was eventually defeated by Aurelian and probably taken prisoner along with nine other martial queens of allied provinces.
And there are more.