Originally posted by EnyalusThere was no 'initial charge'. He's shown flying down to the planet. Then he stands still on the surface of the planet and begins punching.
Three strikes were shown on panel. Why would anyone assume more unless they're intentionally attempting to degrade the feat?
i don't have to degrade it since it could be the size of a small moon. but he most certainly was never shown just standing still. there is a big things shown where he hit the planet so clearly there was a large impact and he's punching immediately so the blitz seems to have certainly done damage. and it says his frustration is building--seems reasonable to think it wouldn't build over the course of 3 strikes. maybe it did. but again--maybe the planet was very small and so the feat is meaningless.
Really? Because when Lex got elected president Superman threw a temper tantrum and split a moon of Saturn's (I think) in half.
and there is no way to know whether gladiator's 'planet' was any larger.
Glads has also moved a moon-sized spaceship, while Current Supes proved unable to stop a 70 mile long spaceship by himself. 😬
and he's pulled at least a third of the earth (IF you feel diana could tow a third. if not, likely a greater fraction of the planet). again, no way anyone competes with superman in feats.
There've been plenty of commentary on Superman's speed from the writers and narrative inside the stories themselves. Everything from Superman admitting he can't break light speed, other characters saying he's not sure if Superman can break light speed, saying he has to concentrate and focus tremendously before breaking light speed, to him being able to 'travel across the galaxy at the speed of sound'...notice, I didn't use any of that low feat nonsense to make my point.
he's got plenty of high end feats though and if you're going to use the SINGLE HIGHEST feat that glad's has`ever done (and not duplicated--or even come close to duplicating since he was first introduced--then we can compare superman's highest feats. i just don't feel like going through the respect thread right now. 😛
It was a miniature black hole, about 3 inches across maybe. And he admitted he couldn't hold it for very long. Surfer can battle in an actual black hole, but I think Gladiator's more durable than him, too.
more durable than ss? 😑 sigh . . . and didn't ss need to get OUT of the hole in galactus devourer? and he was afraid for galactus himself when g fought inbetweener and they were heading into a black hole . . .
and glad's best was that half-a-solar system thing. a supernova would wipe out a FULL solar system in hours and would continue to wipe out a LOT of space well beyond that. again, superman has far too many feats to question his durability.
Superman's also been one-shotted far more times than Gladiator has been.
more appearances=more low feats. part of the package.
as for t-vo--not sure it's last use, but not THAT long ago. avy's brought it up a number of times the last year or 2. guess we'll need to wait and see about that one. 🙂
oh--phil's gonna clobber you in that BZ. 😛
Originally posted by PhilosophíaAre you serious? This is about as equal as it gets. What Superman showings have you so up in arms?
Gladiator doesn't have more experience and doesn't have better showings either. He isn't faster. He isn't stronger. He isn't more durable. He isn't smarter. Everything he is, Superman matches and betters, from physicall to mental categories.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I've got time this week. A Superman vs Gladiator battlezone, Enyalus ?
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't have to degrade it since it could be the size of a small moon.
Originally posted by leonidas
but he most certainly was never shown just standing still. there is a big things shown where he hit the planet so clearly there was a large impact and he's punching immediately so the blitz seems to have certainly done damage. and it says his frustration is building--seems reasonable to think it wouldn't build over the course of 3 strikes. maybe it did. but again--maybe the planet was very small and so the feat is meaningless.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/Jonathanos/Gladiator/GladPlanet1.jpg
Originally posted by leonidas
and he's pulled at least a third of the earth (IF you feel diana could tow a third. if not, likely a greater fraction of the planet). again, no way anyone competes with superman in feats.
Originally posted by Enyalus
God no. I'd never do a battlezone against Superman. Way too many feats to contend with. Plus I think Superman beats Gladiator in a head-to-head matchup. I just don't think its a 10/10 or 8/10 like some have said. I think its about 6/10.
i say 8-9 but at least we're on the same side of the fence. 🙂
The narration says its a world. Hence a planet. Which was now devoid of life. If it was a moon, or moon-sized, it would have said so. That speculation of yours isn't necessary. It could've been Mercury-sized. It could've been Neptune sized. It doesn't matter. Its still larger than your average moon.
than your average moon. but what's average? i'm not speculating. i'm saying we simply don't know. mercury's a planet and it's smaller than some moons of both saturn and jupiter. it's only a little larger than our own moon. point is, it's a ball of rock and we have no idea. if it's mercury sized it's not that big a deal. if it's neptune sized, well, that would be a lot more meaningful.
He is shown standing still. In the bottom panels:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/Jonathanos/Gladiator/GladPlanet1.jpg
[/b]
huh? he's pounding down on the ground. looks to be creating a crevesse with some form of shockwave attack. he's not standing still at all. 😕
[Pulling is vastly inferior to lifting.
true, but pulling an entire planet is vastly different from lifting a spaceship . . .
for glad's to be a real player and real competition for superman, i simply need to see more and more CONSISTENT feats. this whole confidence thing is ridiculous. if they can straighten the character out, he's got some potential. the knock-off role however, (even his friggin name??) just isn't cool.
Originally posted by leonidasthan your average moon. but what's average? i'm not speculating. i'm saying we simply don't know. mercury's a planet and it's smaller than some moons of both saturn and jupiter. it's only a little larger than our own moon. point is, it's a ball of rock and we have no idea. if it's mercury sized it's not that big a deal. if it's neptune sized, well, that would be a lot more meaningful.
Entirely semantic. Something like asking if a circle would be a square if it had four corners and straight lines. A moon simply orbits a planet, while a planet orbits a central star. A planet would be larger on average, though.
What I feel can be extrapolated, however, for this feat and for comics in general, is that the majority of writers can be assumed to write a planet as larger than a moon. Most writers don't attempt to cover all scientific extrapolations, and Earth and its moon is a great availability heuristic.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Entirely semantic. Something like asking if a circle would be a square if it had four corners and straight lines. A moon simply orbits a planet, while a planet orbits a central star. A planet would be larger on average, though.What I feel can be extrapolated, however, for this feat and for comics in general, is that the majority of writers can be assumed to write a planet as larger than a moon. Most writers don't attempt to cover all scientific extrapolations, and Earth and its moon is a great availability heuristic.
ummm . . . and? 😕
point is we don't know how big the planet was. planets vary from essentially brown dwarfs larger than jupiter to balls of rock like mercury or pluto, which is essentially a moon. the planet was a ball of rock, which lead me to think it was more along the size of mercury. still a decent feat, but not something i think it out of line to say can be duplicated by others in that class--particularly superman.
Originally posted by leonidas
ummm . . . and? 😕point is we don't know how big the planet was. planets vary from essentially brown dwarfs larger than jupiter to balls of rock like mercury or pluto, which is essentially a moon. the planet was a ball of rock, which lead me to think it was more along the size of mercury. still a decent feat, but not something i think it out of line to say can be duplicated by others in that class--particularly superman.
And nothing. It was just an answer to a question.
Size doesn't matter more than mass. Planets generally have higher mass. Ganymede and Titan would be moons of Mercury despite being bigger. Logically speaking, a planet composed of rock would be harder to destroy than a larger planet composed largely of gas, unless the size differential is too large.
Originally posted by leonidas
i say 8-9 but at least we're on the same side of the fence. 🙂than your average moon. but what's average? i'm not speculating. i'm saying we simply don't know. mercury's a planet and it's smaller than some moons of both saturn and jupiter. it's only a little larger than our own moon. point is, it's a ball of rock and we have no idea. if it's mercury sized it's not that big a deal. if it's neptune sized, well, that would be a lot more meaningful.
huh? he's pounding down on the ground. looks to be creating a crevesse with some form of shockwave attack. he's not standing still at all. 😕
true, but pulling an entire planet is vastly different from lifting a spaceship . . .
for glad's to be a real player and real competition for superman, i simply need to see more and more CONSISTENT feats. this whole confidence thing is ridiculous. if they can straighten the character out, he's got some potential. the knock-off role however, (even his friggin name??) just isn't cool.
Originally posted by EnyalusI feel you 😉 sometimes things don't go well when trying explaining the side effects of crossovers especially when so many character from different universe are involved. But hard to argue with the writer itself. This type of problem was also seen somewhat in the 52 series
Clearly. Even though after Dreamwar ended Majestic was shown to have moved the Earth by himself (for the second time). And even during Dreamwar it took Superman, Majestic, and Apollo to put down Doomsday...and since Maj has been shown to consistently be above Apollo, I'd be led to the conclusion that Supes and Majestic were comparable.😬 It makes no sense that Dreamwar is canon. But I can't argue with a writer. *shrug*
And it's not like KG hasn't written for WS before.
Final note: Superman is just that good
Originally posted by Ouallada
And nothing. It was just an answer to a question.Size doesn't matter more than mass. Planets generally have higher mass. Ganymede and Titan would be moons of Mercury despite being bigger. Logically speaking, a planet composed of rock would be harder to destroy than a larger planet composed largely of gas, unless the size differential is too large.
of course they 'generally' do. that wasn't my point. my point was we don't know how big the planet was therefore we don't know how impressive it truly was. if it's a small planet, breaking a large moon is comparable.
that's it.
and goob--the flight v strength thing has ALWAYS been a puzzling issue. so superman FLIES . . . stronger than anyone? 😕
makes no sense. regardless, i think holding a singularity in his hand (and the diameter of the event horizon is irrelevent) is a far greater strength AND durability feat than anything gladiator has done.
both.
tactile tk has been thrown around a lot in dc, super boy even said he has it himself.
and the other thing is still sound since he can pull things in space, and when he's in an atmosphere of a planetary body's gravitational field, large objects don't crumble over his head when he flies upwards with them.
it's like how cannonball can fly with more weight than he can carry when he's on his feet with his powers off.
and angel (worthington III) can lift more in flight.
Originally posted by leonidas
huh? he's pounding down on the ground. looks to be creating a crevesse with some form of shockwave attack. he's not standing still at all. 😕
Originally posted by leonidas
true, but pulling an entire planet is vastly different from lifting a spaceship . . .
And against Supreme it was stated they had enough power to destroy the entire solar system if they kept fighting.
Originally posted by kgkg
I feel you 😉 sometimes things don't go well when trying explaining the side effects of crossovers especially when so many character from different universe are involved. But hard to argue with the writer itself. This type of problem was also seen somewhat in the 52 series
So...that means that Superman didn't one-shot Majestic canonically. 😖hifty:
Originally posted by kgkg
Final note: Superman is just that good
