Captain America vs Black Panther

Originally posted by Capt.JK
Yes, I am objective about Cap. In the thread Cap vs Juggernaut, I admitted in my FIRST response that Cap was outmatched. This scenario is not the case. BP is no Juggernaut. And if you think Cap possesses the same frailties as a normal human, I suggest you step away from the keyboard and read a few Cap comics before you continue. Cap has mopped the floor with Falcon. Friend or not, he is NOT in Cap's league. And Cap beat DD in only 4 panels.

That's not an objective view of a one on one battle. That's obvious. It's OBVIOUS that Juggernaut would crush Captain America in a one on one fight. It's obvious that The Hulk, Thanos, Ultron and Cable would lay Captain America to waste in a one on one battle.

Now back to the subject. You are correct in your assertions that BP is roughly one third smarter than Cap. Unfortunately, I think that merely denotes a bookish intelligence, which does BP no good on the battlefield. While BP is superior intellectually, to call Cap ignorant to the point of not being able to function against Panther implies that BP is TOTALLY outmatched by Cap in the fighting skills department. By this string of logic, if BP's intelligence should give him a hefty one third advantage over Cap, then Cap's one third advantage in fighting skills should be more than enough to totally and quickly overwhelm BP and have him squealing like a black cat with a wrung neck in mere seconds.

You know better than that. Black Panther is also a warrior king so his intelligence isn't only used in the creation and development of his technology. COME ON! I thought we were being objective here? I see a pattern though. When the advantage is in Captain America's court it's all good but when we see the possibility of an particular advantage in Panther's court it's goes unnoticed and unmentioned. Cap ignorant? I never said Captain America was ignorant. I stated that he was merely ONE THIRD less intelligent than Black Panther. Which he is. And intelligence for a man who's both technologically savvy and a great warrior is nothing to be ignored. He's ONE THIRD a better tactician then Captain America according to your very own calculations. To be a great tactician you have to be extremely intelligent. You have to know various wars, strategies and battle plans and tactics. Black Panther is a Warrior King and he's been schooled at the best institutions around the world. He's both studied battles and fights and has experienced them on a regular basis. But who's wins the fight more often? The stronger fighter? Or the SMARTER fighter? I'd bet on the more clever and cunning fighter to win. Black Panther knows Caps weaknesses and strengths. He'll known enough how to deal with Captain America who'd right away go cowboy and start slinging his shield to no avail.

But we know this to be untrue. Cap's fighting advantage is quite strong, but not overwhelming. We both agree that it would be a good fight. Therefore, BP's brain power is not mathematically superior enough to sway the battle decidedly in his favor either. So now we have to look at the characters themselves:
While BP splits his time amongst many areas: King of Wakanda; world financier; super-vague-hero; building better fingernails so that he can penetrate Cap's shield (talk about a guy in need of a hobby), Cap spends his time fighting, training to fight, learning how to be a better field commander, and remembering past battles and fallen comrades. He had someone else design his shield (Dr. Myron McLaine) so that he could dedicate and devote himself to what he does. Fight for liberty and freedom (another guy in need of a hobby). BP can't compete with that kind of focus. Cap has no other focus other than being Captain America.

Black Panther stood toe to toe with Captain America without the man overtly taking over the fight. In every instance they battled there was always a peculiar circumstance that subverted the actual fight between both men. And anyone who can STAND against Captain America is not only in his league but has a greater chance of winning than most. Batman's intelligence has always been the deciding factor in many of his battles and people give him great acclaim for it. His ability to see patterns and THINK his way out of situations is no different than that of the Panther's ability to see the patterns and think his way to victory. Captain America as brilliant as he is just doesn't match up to the intelligent and cunning fighter that Black Panther is. And let's be serious here for a moment. We both know it's always the smarter fighter that wins the bout especially in a situation where two fighters are so evenly matched. Yes, EVENLY matched. Focus? Every writer who's even been on Black Panther and or Captain America knows that BOTH men have an undeniable determination and FOCUS that few posses. Don't give me that garbage. If anything with Black Panther doing all of these various tasks it proves that he's got the ability to multitask and still fulfill all of his obligations not only as a King but as a champion of " justice ".

Your energy projection argument is a moot point. Cap has none because he just doesn't need it. BP's is so low as to be irrelevant. Cap would no more be bothered by BP throwing his little energy daggers or whatever than he was charging full-on into a Nazi machinegun nest or taking a direct hit from a Kree Battleship. He just kept on charging.

Don't be too sure about that. Many of Panther's low level and irrelevant devices are known to be effective weapons and tools especially when fighting against swift foes. They're battle turning devices that enable him to equalize many fights he's in. Charging? That sounds very reckless and stupid especially when facing Black Panther. Rhino's charge full on at the Black Panther and with a few fluid motions and using his superior strength...he takes them down. I doubt Captain America would be foolish enough to CHARGE the Panther in a fight. Even I would give him more credit than that.

This would be a good fight, but Cap WOULD WIN. And then he would tell Panther to get a new outfit. Drop all that pimp gold stuff and that cat suit, and get something more MANLY. Maybe a nice plaid.

Black Panther's current ceremonial garb is in fact already new. He'd have to say no to that one considering it absorbs the IMPACT of anything and everything directed towards it. Including bullets, fists and shields. Pimp gold? Now that's insulting. It's Wakandan vibranium. Black Panther only wears the RAREST of metals. 😉 Drop the cat suit? He can't. As Chieftain of the Panther clan and Warrior King of Wakanda he's bound by tradition and law to wear the ceremonial garb of his ancestors. I'm afraid that the plaid is just out of the question my friend.

You keep trying to come off as somewhat objective in this fight but it's just not working. Your views of Captain America are just uncompromising unless it's painfully obvious that he'd be in the disadvantage. I give you credit for trying but I call'em how I see'em and you're definitely a grade A fanboy. Nothing wrong with that at all. Hell, it's admirable that you'd stand by your character regardless of the situation he's in. But unfortunately he's just outmatched here. How you ask? Intelligence in ANY fighter is a dangerous commodity. An adversary who's overtly aware of both his opponent and his surroundings is perhaps a great weapon than all the fighting skill in the world. Yes, Captain America displays a greater fighting skill than the Black Panther but he also has a greater fighting skill than Galactus, Hulk, Abomination, Thanos, Silver Surfer, Ultron and Juggernaut...but a lot of good it does him there right? He's got a greater fighting skill than the Thing but he can't exactly take him down.

Yeah, it's a great match up and however you look at it Captain America just like Panther is only an extraordinary man. But everything states he still has the same vulnerabilities as a man. Cap isn't perfect and neither is BP but the greatest advantage in a fight is a CUNNING and Intelligent fighter...do you agree or disagree? Answer that question. Because when you say " Yes " the Black Panther automatically wins. He's the MOST intelligent and cunning of them. If you say no...then you're just lying to yourself and everyone else on the message board.

Tag Bippy, you're it. 😉

I too find the "Pimp Gold" comment insulting...I dont think the Panther should be confused with other counter productive and bigoted Black Icons...I think that Black Panther serves as a great symbol in the same way you think Captain does...when young black kids read comic books I dont want them reading about another black icon that perpetuates negative and racist stereotypes...talking about "bling bling" with baggy clothes and poor command of the english language... I like the way Stan Lee created his first Black hero as a character who was strong and respectable, a guy who single handedly took down the Fantastic Four...I would much rather have young black kids identify with the Panther than any character, including Cap...thus they would see a Black man who serves as a king, a leader, a politician, a scholar, a warrior...where else in modern media do u see a figure like this?

Originally posted by Wynndar
they would see a Black man who serves as a king, a leader, a politician, a scholar, a warrior...where else in modern media do u see a figure like this?

ODB. Wu-Tang is for the children.
RIP

ok that was an awful post in response to wynndars statement, thanks for ruining my fun.

Originally posted by Nathaniel Gray
No one said Captain America didn't speak infront of the U.N. I asked when was the last time he did something of that sort. When was the last time he spoke out to aid another country that wasn't America? And man, I have no idea what you're saying. Please try and be a bit more linear with your comments and ideas.

I was linear with my comments because my gaol was to prove that Captain America was the better leader between the two. And I tell you what!!! I proved it. If this was the best response you could come up with.

Originally posted by Nathaniel Gray
As far as I see it Captain America and Black Panther are still only human and are subject to the same regulations and limitations that come with being homosapien. They share the same strengths, weaknesses and undoubtedly the same passions that drive them each to be what it is they are today . Not in the same league? You're crazy and you need to stop smokin' dat ganja homie. They're in the EXACT same league. Black Panther is THE most qualified person to stand toe to toe with Captain America. Only the swift the smart and the strong survive...and Black Panther through all of his political turmoils and physical ones has proven to me that HE is a survivor.

I agree with some of the comments but the one that bother me the most was the comment of black panther and captain america having the same passion that drives them. The passion that drives captain america is to keep the world safe whether if he is only fighting for America (If a country needs captain America's help do really think he is going to turn his back.)Captain America fights for everyone Wakanda included. Now Nathaniel has made it painfully clear time and time again that the passion that drives black panther is only to keep Wakanda safe he only cares for them and nothing else matters to him. Sure he goes can safe kid from a burning building but not after he calls home first and check if everything is ok. before he even considers saving the kid.

Now their passions as to what drives them to do what they do are very different. captain America goal is to keep people safe no matter who you are and Black Panther goal is only for Wakanda. Everything thing else comes second

finally got my scanner back up

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
I was linear with my comments because my gaol was to prove that Captain America was the better leader between the two. And I tell you what!!! I proved it. If this was the best response you could come up with.

I agree with some of the comments but the one that bother me the most was the comment of black panther and captain america having the same passion that drives them. The passion that drives captain america is to keep the world safe whether if he is only fighting for America (If a country needs captain America's help do really think he is going to turn his back.)Captain America fights for everyone Wakanda included. Now Nathaniel has made it painfully clear time and time again that the passion that drives black panther is only to keep Wakanda safe he only cares for them and nothing else matters to him. Sure he goes can safe kid from a burning building but not after he calls home first and check if everything is ok. before he even considers saving the kid.

Now their passions as to what drives them to do what they do are very different. captain America goal is to keep people safe no matter who you are and Black Panther goal is only for Wakanda. Everything thing else comes second

Yea but considering he is the Monarch of Wakanda, isnt your comparison a little innapplicable? Captain America doesnt have nearly the level of responsibilty as the Panther for his country...to say it diminishes Panther because he has greater concern for his own people is just unfair...Cap is not the Monarch of America and not held accountable for every individual in his country.

So true, so true but captain america is not only for america he is for everyone he is the Superman of Marvel when it comes to morals, and saving innocence.

Black Panther cares allot for his own people. and believe me when I say this is a plus on his side. But his concern is ONLY directed to the people of Wakanda. if he had shown as just a little concern for other people like he does for his own people things would have been a little different.

Lifeisaglich. I doubt Black Panther would have remained on the Avengers roster if his only concern was merely the welfare of his nation. Though it is first and foremost -- time and again T'Challa as King of Wakanda and Black Panther has supplied aid to various nations including Genosha, Atlantis, Lemuria, America and other African Nation that did not require his help but he aided them regardless. Read Avengers #480-485. Black Panther did a GREAT service for the United States and saved BILLIONS of lives due to his countries " superior " technology. Read a few Black Panther and Captain America comics and you'll notice more similarities between these prospective heroes than the color of their uniforms. 😉 Each in their own right are champions and great leaders but Black Panther actually leads a NATION while Captain America is merely a symbol to one. Yes, he's a great inspiration to his people and those around him but he doesn't bear as much responsibility nor does he shoulder the weight that Black Panther does on a daily basis. Steven Rogers can take off the Captain America uniform at any time he desires. He has in the past -- and the United States as well as the Avengers would carry on in his absence. But T'Challa cannot leave his nation as casually. Why is Black Panther a more profound commander? A. Captain America when he was leaving saw fit to leave him in charge. B. He shoulders the weight of a NATION on his shoulders every day without waning. C. He's way smarter than Captain America and is also an adept warrior. Intelligence is what makes great leaders. Ie; Mr. Fantastic, Charles Xavier, Magneto, Black Bolt...etc.

I never denied that Black Panther has less responsibility than Capt. I just said that Capt. is a better leader that black panther. There only reason that Black panther joined the Avengers was to see what kind of tread that they posed against wakanda (right?). Confirming my suspicions of him only caring for his own people first. But captain america does not put any body above the other even though he is the icon of one nation.

Black Panther help to the countries was very good and appreciated but it does not high light his leader ship qualities which is what I am talking about.

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
I never denied that Black Panther has less responsibility than Capt. I just said that Capt. is a better leader that black panther. There only reason that Black panther joined the Avengers was to see what kind of tread that they posed against wakanda (right?). Confirming my suspicions of him only caring for his own people first. But captain america does not put any body above the other even though he is the icon of one nation.

Black Panther help to the countries was very good and appreciated but it does not high light his leader ship qualities which is what I am talking about.

I dont think that was the only reason that BP joined the Avengers...he is still a hero at heart and despite what you say, he does appreciate human life other than those of his own people. However, he IS RESPONSIBLE FOR the lives of his citizens...Captain America isnt responsible for anyone, he may be out to help all people but that is not the same as a responsibilty.

Bob that was the only reason that stuck out like a sour thumb.

Black panther is still a hero, who I'm I to say that black panther is not a hero? Nobody that's who.

I did not say that black panther only cares for his own folks. To state this in a more lenient way; he is too protective of them in such a way that Wakanda people come first before any thing else. This is just fine because it is his character and the thing that makes him unique among other heroes. And the kind of stuff that would touch most of his super hero comrades the wrong way. More so than often

To say that captain America is not responsible for anyone is like saying that Black Panther is not a king.

Do you agree that in terms of morals Captain America the equivalent of Superman?

captain america, superman...doesnt matter, they dont hold a position of power where citizens are their responsibility. Cap and Supes and the Panther all fight to save people out of the goodness of their own heart...but the Panther has an additional responsibility more comparable to those of our President then those of other heroes.

Bub you might want to rethink your first paragraph because I honestly think that if you read this that paragraph you are going to find something wrong with. (The mistake is not really big but it is enough to make a difference.)

Yes they all fight to save people out of the goodness of their own, but are their motive or mortise of operandi the same?

And no one is denying the responsibly factor. That the black panther has more responsiblility than captain america. But the known fact is panther put his country above all others and he does not care who you are . This is fine with me but it this jesture that promoted all the attacks to his leadership skills. (And his leader ship is excellent but not on the same level as the Capt.)

i think you should point out my error, Im not sure what ur talking about.

Anyway, I still say Cap, Panther, and SM are all heroes and have a good nature that drives them to protect the innocent...unlike SM and Cap, the Panther has a job as the monarch of his country and is responsible for all his citizens in a different way than Cap and Supes, who may simply have a SENSE of responsibilty for their fellow citizens.

Ultimately, this has nothing to do with my opinion of any of these characters' leadership skills, they r entirely different things and independent of one another...A person can be a monarch whether or not they r a good leader in battle, and a good leader doesnt have to be a monarch or a hero. Dr. Doom makes a better leader, strategist, and opponent than Captain America, but this doesnt mean he is Good...you can interchang T'Challa and Doom in almost every category except for the fact that one gravitates toward evil and one toward good.

Look you said that Capt. AND SM do not hold any responsibilty over the people that they protect.

No one has denied hero hood to panther

Yes you are correct when you say that black panther is a monarch but his true responsibility lie with Wakanda. Where as Capt. and SM responsiblity is for the world.

Who says a good leader have to be a monarch or a hero. We are all leaders in our own right.

Dr. Doom makes a better leader, strategist, and opponent yes but what he cannot have he takes. He leads by doing what ever he feels like doing and lets face it Dr. Doom is not exactly Ok up stairs (By this statement I mean he is a lettle bit not so sane.)

But Cap and Supes are not responsible for America or the world...There was nothing wrong with my statement at all...the error lies in your definition of responsibilty...They might FEEL A SENSE of responsibility, but they r not truly responsible for them. If a citizen of Wakanda has a conflict, be it even a socio-economic one, this is traced back to the Panther. If you had a similar problem ie. you lost your job or couldnt afford health care, you probably wouldnt vote for the same politcal leaders again... And If any person on Earth has a conflict, or is even directly attacked by a supervillain, they dont go out and say "Damn Captain America, where were you!". Why? because he is not responsible for them. He may feel a personal sense of responsibility, but it is not a concrete responsibility. I dont see how you can argue this, is it not clear that there is a difference between the responsibilities of a Monarch and the responsibilty "Uncle Ben" was talking about in Spiderman?

I brought up Doctor Doom because you said the way BP manages his responsibilities diminishes his leadership. I was showing how the two are independent of one another and even independent of someone being a hero. By the way, Dr Doom is not insane...he may obsess over his mother and his enemies, but his sanity has never been questionable.

This my definition with great power comes great responsibility
Capt. and SM have great power and what do they do with it they protect the world with it. Or I'm I wrong. I think this quote from Uncle Ben best describe responsibility don't you think. Especially when you a lot of power.

I brought up Doctor Doom because you said the way BP manages his responsibilities diminishes his leadership. I was showing how the two are independent of one another and even independent of someone being a hero. By the way, Dr Doom is not insane...he may obsess over his mother and his enemies, but his sanity has never been questionable.

You did not do a good job of differentiating.

Dr Doom is not insane...he may obsess over his mother and his enemies. Ok if being obsess with your mother and enemies does not qualify as being a little nuts then what does. 🙂

Cap wins on fighting alone.

lifeisaglich...sorry if i was confusing there...the 800 and 750 lb thing is from directories and handbooks...based on those numbers it appears that the Panther lifts a liitle more than 400% of his body weight while Cap is slightly below 400% his body weight.

Generally speaking, any character in Marvel who is considered peak human like Cap or Panther, can lift 400% their body weight...however according to the handbook's Panther and Cap fluctuate right outside of 400%...

I dont think there is any point in arguing about the strength thing, its not really relevant...nor is the contest between the serum and the root

Based on my knowledge of the two, and what they have done in comics, it would be a really really close fight...I will go with my personal favorite though, Black Panther.