This fight would also be determined by the situation and location that both characters are thrust in. It makes you think for a moment what would be the circumstances which would enable either of these characters to gain a foot hold over the other.
For example...were this bout to take place within a jungle I doubt that would give Captain America any sort of advantage. Yes, Steve Rogers has traversed the world over and has been thrust into various climates and locations but do you seriously believe that he'd have a chance against a man who's back yard IS the jungle? Black Panther is one of the best warriors when it comes to overall guerrilla tactics. That's what his arts and abilities are based on. He attacks a foe when they're disillusioned or confused. He uses stealth and speed to take down even foes who propose to be greater than he is in strength and power. In the Black Panther mini series ( Black Panther #1-4 1988 ) T'Challa fought off and defeated 6 super powered beings ( more-so than Captain America ) known as the " Supremacist ". That is but one example of T'Challa using his stealth to subvert an opponent that underestimates him. Captain America admittedly would NEVER underestimate Black Panther which would allow him a greater advantage than those men he fought.
Then there's the " urban " jungle. Another place that both Captain America and Black Panther are extremely familiar with. Neither character is uniformed of the terrain when it comes to inner cities and what they have to offer but do you think Cap would have an advantage there? Possibly ...possibly not. Black Panther destroyed the economical status of the world in order to defeat Kilmonger and stop his country from being overrun. It lead to hundreds of thousands of men, women and children to lose their jobs, go homeless and starve and even DIE. Kilmonge, T'Challa's greatest foe even stated that he was more ruthless than any man he'd known. Do you think he'd hesitate to put an innocent in danger to put Cap to rest? I don't think so. He's always said throughout his comics that he would do whatever was NECESSARY to win regardless of the consequences. As much as I respect Cap he just doesn't have the same cut throat senses that T'Challa employs. And believe me -- even if he DID harm an Innocent he couldn't be convicted. He'd use his diplomatic immunity to over turn it. Many seem to forget that Black Panther is NOT a U.S. citizen nor does he have the same " values " that Western ideology posses. He's the King of an African nation in which brutality is often used to attend the means to an end. Captain America does NOT have that same mentality and it would ultimate lead to the possibility of his defeat.
Please do respond. I'm eager to hear what you think.
The Red Skull's mind inhabits a body cloned from his arch-nemesis, Captain America. Fueled by the same super-soldier serum that birthed the star-spangled Avengers, his physique has been enhanced to the maximum of human efficiency. The Skull also has strategic genius on par with that of Genghis Khan and Napoleon as well as a skilled martial artist and master marks men.
That quote is DIRECTLY from Marvel.com. Go on and take a look. Now according to Marvel.com the Red Skull is not that very far off from Captain America himself. They even apparently share the same type of body now. ( Seeing as how his body is a cloned version of Steve Roger's ). In Avengers #485 " Red Zone " Black Panther beat the living hell out of Red Skull with his bare hands and even managed to TEAR away the Red Skull's jaw with a punch. ( Not without getting a considerable beating himself. ) Now seeing that the Red Skull's body is the same as Captain America's and the Red Skull's strengths and super-soldier serum that is in his blood is the same as Captain America's that can only lead to the assumption that Black Panther has both the skill and ability to defeat Captain America. You see Marvel.Com also states that Red Skull though a step BELOW Captain America in hand to hand skill-- is twice the tactician he is and way smarter. So what does that say about Black Panther if he cracked Red Skull's jaw? Even with all the tactical genius in the world and " super soldier " strength serum in his veins ( Note; The same as Captain America's ) Red Skull STILL lost to Black Panther.
Ladies and gentlemen! I think we have a WINNER!
Man, you are long-winded! But the fact still remains that Cap COULD and WOULD beat BP. Cap has defeated the Red Skull so many times you'd need a degree in mathematics to count them all, so I have no idea what your point was about that.
Secondly, you state that Marvel places Cap only 2 points above BP in fighting. Going back to our math lesson, we see that this is a point/level system based on a scale of 1 to 7. Marvel places Cap at 7 (that's the MAXIMUM level), and BP at only a 5. Therefore, Marvel.com states that Captain America's fighting prowess is 29% better than BP's. 29%!!! That's HUGE! Marvel.com (which YOU quoted), says that Cap is almost a THIRD better at fighting!
Also, your comments about Cap's shield not being able to stand up to BP's fancy gadgets is also crap. Marvel.com (again, which YOU quoted), describes Cap's shield as INDESTRUCTIBLE!!! Throughout the history of Captain America, his shield has ALWAYS been described as indestructible. Its Adamantium/Vibranium molecular bond can't even be duplicated. Full-force blows from the likes of Hulk and Thor couldn't dent it. Full-blast shots from Iron-Man's repulsors and Kree battleship ion-cannons couldn't hurt it. Magneto couldn't even figure it out! BP's fancy little "Panther-gadgets" wouldn't even scratch the paint!
And finally, your argument about BP putting innocents in danger is lame. First off, if BP had to resort to terrorist-style tactics to try and win, he's pathetic and has lost already. Secondly, Cap is a soldier. He has seen the horrors of the Nazi death camps and watched friends and innocents die in battle millions of times. If it came down to it, Cap would go after the greater good and beat the Black Panther if he showed himself to be a cowardly terrorist. And Cap HAS killed in the past. The only ones who think he is just a boy scout are the ones who've never read a Cap comic.
And before I allow you to retort, here's one more parting shot. You say BP fought off multiple foes in the past, more so than Cap. Again, check your history. Cap has fought in hundreds of battles against single and multiple foes, both normal and super-powered. Again, read a Cap comic or two before saying things that aren't true.
LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, WE HAVE A LOSER!!! And his name is... Black Panther.
CAP WINS!!!
Originally posted by Nathaniel Grey
This fight would also be determined by the situation and location that both characters are thrust in. It makes you think for a moment what would be the circumstances which would enable either of these characters to gain a foot hold over the other.For example...were this bout to take place within a jungle I doubt that would give Captain America any sort of advantage. Yes, Steve Rogers has traversed the world over and has been thrust into various climates and locations but do you seriously believe that he'd have a chance against a man who's back yard [b]IS
the jungle? [/B]
I noticed you used a B&W pic of Cap fighting the Black Panther for one of your posts. Well, that's not T'Challa in the pic, that's T'Chaka, his father. The pic comes from the cover of "Black Panther", vol. 2, #30, May 2001 (which I DO own), in which the story, entitled "First Contact: Wakanda 1941", takes place in the Wakandan jungles during WW2. However, if you open this book to pages 2 and 3, you will see a nice group of pics in which Cap faces off against BP after being ambushed from the trees on page 1. Not only does Cap direct the U.S. troops following him not to attack while he himself IS being attacked, he manages to reverse a garrot wrapped around his neck by T'Chaka and place the aforementioned Panther in a choke hold. BP then stands down from the fight.
What were you saying about not having a chance...?
CAP WINS!!!
And while I'm irritated about the whole subject, Thor's hammer, the mighty Mjolnir, is made from enchanted Uru 'METAL'. Do you think the BP's wonderful new little "Inspector Gadget" anti-metal claws could affect Thor's hammer? Of course not. But in Avengers vs JLA, Thor and Superman both wonder and speak of the magnificense of Cap's shield.
Superman: "... And where can I get one of these shields - it's fantastic!"
Thor: "Enjoy it while thou canst, Superman. There is none other like it in all the worlds."
Is it really so hard for you Panther 'fanboys' to admit that Cap's shield is a lot more than just a 'piece of metal'?
BP's gadgets won't save him.
Cap wins.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Man, you are long-winded! But the fact still remains that Cap COULD and WOULD beat BP. Cap has defeated the Red Skull so many times you'd need a degree in mathematics to count them all, so I have no idea what your point was about that.
I think I made my point pretty clear unless you're being overtly condescending? I wrote it out all there...and typed as " clearly " as possible.
Secondly, you state that Marvel places Cap only 2 points above BP in fighting. Going back to our math lesson, we see that this is a point/level system based on a scale of 1 to 7. Marvel places Cap at 7 (that's the MAXIMUM level), and BP at only a 5. Therefore, Marvel.com states that Captain America's fighting prowess is 29% better than BP's. 29%!!! That's HUGE! Marvel.com (which YOU quoted), says that Cap is almost a THIRD better at fighting!
Also, your comments about Cap's shield not being able to stand up to BP's fancy gadgets is also crap. Marvel.com (again, which YOU quoted), describes Cap's shield as INDESTRUCTIBLE!!! Throughout the history of Captain America, his shield has ALWAYS been described as indestructible. Its Adamantium/Vibranium molecular bond can't even be duplicated. Full-force blows from the likes of Hulk and Thor couldn't dent it. Full-blast shots from Iron-Man's repulsors and Kree battleship ion-cannons couldn't hurt it. Magneto couldn't even figure it out! BP's fancy little "Panther-gadgets" wouldn't even scratch the paint!
Right and Marvel also put Red Skull's fighting ability at 6 and that did a lot of good for him when Black Panther knocked his bloody jaw out. So you see that gap really doesn't mean much that much. And if I'm not mistaken there have been numerous occasions in which Red Skull beat down Captain America...though that situation turned about with the aid of the Avengers & company. Indestructible? Hardly. Every comic and Marvel Encyclopedia states that his shield is nearly Indestructible. N e a r l y. And since we both agree that Black Panther is in fact " book smarter " then we know his knowledge of the properties of vibranium and vibranium alloys is unrivaled. He's a scientist and you can't likely state that he couldn't find a way around crippling Captain America's shield with effort. Come on now. The man is the first and foremost authority on the very substance that Caps shield is composed of. Saying that he wouldn't be able to break down the shield is like saying that Hank Pym never smacked the sh*t out of The Wasp. Besides I don't think I need to remind you of his " anti-metal" claws which break down all known metals. Apparently,according to a few sites ( Your favorite Marveldirectory.com ) the shield can be tampered with through its " molecular bonding " a feat that shouldn't be too difficult for a scientist of T'Challa's caliber especially since that's what his " anti-metal " claws do. They rip right through adamantium and vibranium. Magneto, Thor, Iron-man, Hulk? Which of these men are foremost authorities on vibranium and vibranium alloys? Which them them has a MOUND of vibranium in their backyards? Of course they couldn't penetrate it..vibranium is a mysterious substance to the majority of the world. There are FEW people who know a great deal about the metal and one of those few is T'Challa.
And finally, your argument about BP putting innocents in danger is lame. First off, if BP had to resort to terrorist-style tactics to try and win, he's pathetic and has lost already. Secondly, Cap is a soldier. He has seen the horrors of the Nazi death camps and watched friends and innocents die in battle millions of times. If it came down to it, Cap would go after the greater good and beat the Black Panther if he showed himself to be a cowardly terrorist. And Cap HAS killed in the past. The only ones who think he is just a boy scout are the ones who've never read a Cap comic.
Lame? The point I was attempting to make was that Captain America above all else values life and he would NEVER endanger the lives of innocents even at the expense of his own. That unfortunately IS his weakness. Tactics are tactics. It's Black Panther's ability to remove himself from altruist which allows him to do what he has to do unlike Captain America. I'm not saying that Captain America is a fool for having such regard for life nor am I saying that Black Panther totally disregards it -- but I am saying that T'Challa knows for a fact that that's one of Captain America's short comings when facing a ruthless foe. Are you seriously going to tell me that Cap would cut down an " American " citizen just to get to Black Panther? That he'd willingly allow the death of even a single " American " citizen in order to take down a single foe in the middle of a one on one bout? Please -- get serious. Captain America doesn't have a RUTHLESS bone in his body. If someone took hostages Cap would without a doubt lay down his life for them without hesitation. I know it. You know it and BLACK PANTHER knows it.
And before I allow you to retort, here's one more parting shot. You say BP fought off multiple foes in the past, more so than Cap. Again, check your history. Cap has fought in hundreds of battles against single and multiple foes, both normal and super-powered. Again, read a Cap comic or two before saying things that aren't true.
I know my history and I know Captain America's feats and great exploits. Like I said. You're not the only one who collects Captain America/Avengers comics but I'm sure that while my collection for Captain America isn't as extensive as yours is....neither is your knowledge or collection of the RECENT Black Panther comic series. Everything you ever seem to have mentioned of him stems from the 70's to the late 80's version of the character. So I assume besides what you've read from a few scattered websites you have virtually little knowledge of the most current incarnation of Black Panther. What exactly did I say that wasn't true? I mean everything I've offered about Captain America's information is DIRECTLY from Marvel.Com, ( Your favorite ) MarvelDirectory.com and the various Captain America/Avengers and other comics that I have. Please if there's any information that you honestly believe that I've somehow forged please be specific. I'd like to know.
Ladies and Gentlemen! We have have a NEW heavy-weight CHAMP'PEEN of the Wooooooooorld! THE BLACK PANTHER
P.S. You never addressed any of the other contigencies that were lain out for Captain America. Panther's various gadgets would have no effect? I doubt it unless Captain America can hold his breath longer than Namor. Please respond to each in detail or submit. 😉
QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt.JK
Superman: "... And where can I get one of these shields - it's fantastic!"
Thor: "Enjoy it while thou canst, Superman. There is none other like it in all the worlds."
Is it really so hard for you Panther 'fanboys' to admit that Cap's shield is a lot more than just a 'piece of metal'?
BP's gadgets won't save him.
Cap wins. [/QUOTE]
lol, you just have to type "cap wins" in every post
they really said that two eachother? they sound like two fags lol
(no offense to anyone)
Red Skull basically represents every physical attribute and skill that Captain America himself posesses. From his very genetic make up to the super solider serum in his body ( ie; heightened strength, speed, agility, endurance, tactical know how. ) the Skull is like a MOLD of what Captain America is in raw physical prowess. If the Black Panther was able to beat the Red Skull -- then what's stopping him from beating Captain America? And I remind you that Black Panther defeated Skull without any of his " gadgets ". It was a hand to hand brawl in which Panther went toe to toe with him. ( And he did get pummeled while attempting to do so. ) Now think if he HAD used his technological devices? Do you think Skull would have had even a flicker of a chance? Now think about it for a moment and then think of Captain America...because Cap and Skull physically are EXACTLY the same. And this is according to Marvel.com. The only acceptions are that Red Skull is way smarter than Cap and Captain America has slightly better fighting skill. Otherwise physically they're nearly identical. You can't make that kind of comparison with any of T'Challa's foes because none of them are said to be his " duplicate " in any manner.