nathan, what a good match! even tho they both look like idiots in thier suits they are two kick ass humans...in downtown detroit bat wins..in an african jungle panther wins imo.
now what gave panther his panther his peek human fitness? wasnt it an herb ?? hmm so theyre basically the same cept bats doesnt have that herb...i change my mind...panther wins
Originally posted by long pig
nathan, what a good match! even tho they both look like idiots in thier suits they are two kick ass humans...in downtown detroit bat wins..in an african jungle panther wins imo.
now what gave panther his panther his peek human fitness? wasnt it an herb ?? hmm so theyre basically the same cept bats doesnt have that herb...i change my mind...panther wins
nathan has definitely proved a great argument on so many occasions, its no surprise he did it again imo
and of course the batman arguments are solely based on "he's batman!"....not to say i dont like the character, i just dont think he'd win against black panther :]
Everyone seems to insist that BP is faster, stronger and more agile than Bats. I insist not fast, strong or agile enough.
Let's go back to fighting ability. Cap's praise seems to be an arguement. Aparently now he's the word of god and praise from him means it is written in stone. Praise from other characters is really a horrible source of information. Actions please, not words. If praise from other characters were proof, then Wolverine would have the best healing factor, Martian Manhunter would considerably more powerful than Superman, Spiderman would never get hurt, etc. Another arguement is what a writer said. In a month, you'll here a statement from another writer that contridicts that statement, so poo on that.
It seems there is some misunderstanding as to what fighting ability is in the first place. In life and in comics there is argueably a cap to fighting ability. Unless your fighting ability alone grants you super powers (like Karate Kid) then you cannot surpass this cap. Batman is indeed on the very verge of this. My arguement is this, If Black Panther does not have super powers gained from his martial arts then he may in no way possess superior fighting skill to Batman. People insist that there are better "fighters" than Captain America, this is in no way true. What it comes down to is "Water." Ask bruce lee. Without getting to far into fighting philosophies in short it means adaptability, Few are more adaptable than Batman, Black Panther is not one of those few.
This is also the reason Batman is smarter, look in the dictionary, Intellegence is indeed the ability to adapt. Black Panther can't hold a candle to the logistic genius of Batman. Instead stating degrees, let's look to actions. Batman would be on his way home ready to kick off his shoes while Black Panther would still be standing around with his finger in his nose wondering what to make of some of the situations Batman has solved.
if a guy who's humanly worked in fighting ability fights a guy who does the same thing BUT eats a special (and rare) thing that enhances his abilities....yes it would mean the guy witht he enhanced abilities is well......ENHANCED
gotta take a good chunk outta yourself for that one, heh
so far all the actions you've stated of batman are your own fictitious writings.....
Originally posted by Havoc470
if a guy who's humanly worked in fighting ability fights a guy who does the same thing BUT eats a special (and rare) thing that enhances his abilities....yes it would mean the guy witht he enhanced abilities is well......ENHANCEDgotta take a good chunk outta yourself for that one, heh
so far all the actions you've stated of batman are your own fictitious writings.....
Sure, enhanced to a point so futily above that of the Human peek which Batman is at.
I am not some pastry to have chunks taken out of me
Ficticious in your opinion. Because you cannot comprehend something does not make it untrue.
Originally posted by theflyxx
Black Panther has all of Batman's abilities and is also enhanced due to the magic herb.Batman isn't.
Black Panther wins. PERIOD.
Again, only to a level which is only a meager amount above that of batman, I wish Nathaniel Grey had responded instead of you two yokols, then i could bring up another point instead of having to repeat myself.
a small ammount more is just that...more!...on paper panther wins. but in all honesty it would come down to the writer. even tho panther is one of those "strong black with solid moral core" characters made in the 70's that are all never-do-wrongs to counter the more used white never-do-wrong characters...kinda dumb..id give him the win...he was made to be the black bat man....but of course a lil stronger with his herb! heh
P.S lobo is the shiat!
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Everyone seems to insist that BP is faster, stronger and more agile than Bats. I insist not fast, strong or agile enough.Let's go back to fighting ability. Cap's praise seems to be an argument. Aparently now he's the word of god and praise from him means it is written in stone. Praise from other characters is really a horrible source of information. Actions please, not words. If praise from other characters were proof, then Wolverine would have the best healing factor, Martian Manhunter would considerably more powerful than Superman, Spiderman would never get hurt, etc. Another argument is what a writer said. In a month, you'll here a statement from another writer that contridicts that statement, so poo on that.
Well, put, well put. Characters cannot stand on praise alone and as you stated, actions do speak much louder than words. If you read back to my former posts you can see that in most cases I've applied fitting examples as well as comic book numbers for many of Panther's abilities and skills over and over and over. I only used Captain America as an example because he's actually clashed with the Batman fighting him to a stalemate. And as I recall -- Batman knew that his endurance level wasn't likely a match for Caps. As I see it a battle between Panther and Batman would travel along similar lines. Especially since all three of these characters have a lot in common regardless of what most people believe. A stalemate until someone was given a slight edge and opportunity for a win. I truly understand the point you're making and I respect it but I believe I've always sufficiently backed up my point. And if I haven't , I'll attempt to make things much more clear.
Why does T'Challa have an edge on Batman? T'Challa at the age of 19 years was able to defeat several of Wakanda's strongest warriors as well as the former Black Panther before he was even permitted to receive the heart shaped herb. He bested his predecessor who was enhanced by the drug in a very clean victory. Mind you that the heart shaped herb takes a man's already formidable strength, speed, agility, endurance and enhances them much like the super soldier serum does for Captain America. He also needed to fetch the herb before he was allowed to take it. He fended off the Great White Gorillas who protect the herb and nearly lost his life in the process. ( Black Panther : Panther's Prey #1-4 )Everything there takes a great deal of skill especially for a YOUNG man at the age of 19 years old. Skill that I doubt Batman had when he was 19. Need I list exactly how and why Panther still excels -- again? I suggest you buy either; " Enemy of the State " ( BP #1-5 ), " That Business with the Avengers " ( BP #6-8 ) " Lord of the Damned " ( BP#9-12 ) -- all story arch's by Chris Priest and definitely the truest representations of the Panther.
It seems there is some misunderstanding as to what fighting ability is in the first place. In life and in comics there is argueably a cap to fighting ability. Unless your fighting ability alone grants you super powers (like Karate Kid) then you cannot surpass this cap. Batman is indeed on the very verge of this. My argument is this, If Black Panther does not have super powers gained from his martial arts then he may in no way possess superior fighting skill to Batman. People insist that there are better "fighters" than Captain America, this is in no way true. What it comes down to is "Water." Ask bruce lee. Without getting to far into fighting philosophies in short it means adaptability, Few are more adaptable than Batman, Black Panther is not one of those few.
Black Panther does have super powers in a manner of speaking. The heart shaped herb he takes not only enhances his already formidable physical prowess but also his senses as well as his spiritual strength. Black Panther is at all times connected to the Panther God which allows him the ability to assault his foes with his manifested spirituality. The Panther God was able to manifest himself through T'Challa giving him strength and so forth. ( Black Panther Limited series 1988 #'s 1-4, ) Using these same energies he was able to defeat Mephisto. ( Lord of the Damned : Black Panther vol. 2 #'s 1-5 ) The embodiment of the Panther God was manifested through the Panther allowing him to defeat the DEVIL of the Marvel Universe. Black Panther also has a rapport which large Cats. Especially Panther's. ( Surprise, surprise ). He's almost able to communicate with the wild cats and has often been seen out and about with them. ( Black Panther : Panther's Prey 1-4, Panther mini 1988 1-4 ). Mind you these are ALL wild animals who would sooner rip a man to shreds than allow them to " cuddle " with them. As the Panther was seen doing. His sense of SMELL is also heightened and is said to be on par with the super human Wolverine. He was also able to sense Dr. Stranges Astral form when he attempted to sneak up on him. ( Avengers vol. 1 # 61 )
Also the herb enhances nearly every aspect of his senses.The poultice stimulated and accentuated the human being's kinesthetic sense. This kinesthetic sense is the subliminal perception that allows human beings to close their eyes, yet know where the different parts of their bodies are. The poultice, plus the stimuli of rigorous theological and physical training, heightened T'Challa's kinesthetic sense. The poultice also heightened the perceptions and proprioceptors in his body(proprioceptive system processes this orientation sense to the brain).
That is how he can sense where a tree limb or a building edge is, know exactly where it is and never have a moment's doubt that his fingers will close about it. The poultice had a second effect on the T'Challa's muscles and ligaments, specifically on the joints where bones connect and swivel, mesh and respond. There are receptors in these joints called the facinian corpuscles that carry the signal to the brain to fulfill proper movement. Somehow the poultice is absorbed into those receptors and makes them especially sensitive. But the data is significant in correlating his response capabilities to the pacinian corpuscles. This is what enables him to twist and dodge with unparallelled grace. ( Black Panther : Panther's Prey #1-4 )
"The heart-shaped herbs can also accelerate the healing process, but the liquid, that spurts from its center does not make T'Challa impervious." ( Black Panther : Panther's Prey #3. From HUSH #609 it didn't look like Batman had an ACCELERATED healing factor. )
And so on and so forth. The myriad of the Black Panther's abilities and capabilities are nearly endless. Especially in respect to his nearly super human abilities. How dare you state that the Black Panther isn't adaptable when his very character is the epitome of adaptation. He turned his NATION from a tribal African culture to one of the GREATEST known technological wonders known to the Marvel Universe. Apparently you haven't a clue when it comes to the character of Black Panther. You don't know his capabilities nor do you understand that his adaptability is nearly unmatched. I have no doubt that Batman is a survivor and that his adaptability is one of the greatest in the DCU. In fact, I AGREE that it is. But it's definitely NOT far greater than that of the Black Panther's. To even suggest something like that is proof enough you have little knowledge to accurately compare these two. Everything you've stated is a gross misrepresentation of the Panther.
This is also the reason Batman is smarter, look in the dictionary, Intellegence is indeed the ability to adapt. Black Panther can't hold a candle to the logistic genius of Batman. Instead stating degrees, let's look to actions. Batman would be on his way home ready to kick off his shoes while Black Panther would still be standing around with his finger in his nose wondering what to make of some of the situations Batman has solved.
Yes, I agree that Batman is without a doubt one of the most intelligent men in the DCU. But I need to again, disagree when it comes to your comment. You've provided NO examples exactly how Batman is apparently " smarter " than Black Panther. Did Bruce single handedly start Wayne Enterprises? Did he develop nearly every bit of technology that existed within his company? Did he draw an entire Nation up from technological ignorance to become an unrivaled technological monster? I doubt it. But guess what? Black Panther did. He's either developed or approved every single thread of technology in Wakanda. Like Batman he's supplied his own Super Powered group with technological advancements. Black Panther, even before Batman got his FOOT into technology, was already the greatest and most technologically savvy warrior. He developed a machine that ran on magnetic waves which IMPRESSED Reed Richards. And this was WAY before Batman even touched the mass amounts of technology he owns today. I'd not say that Batman was smarter than Black Panther, would you? All of your comments are lacking.
You have no argument and have no basis when comparing Black Panther and Batman. At the beginning you mentioned that characters cannot stand on praise alone? Well that's what you're doing. You're praising the abilities of a character because he's all you know. I know many of Batman's abilities and characteristics. MANY people do. You're not giving any core examples to back up any claims you've stated. Nothing that can be researched and confirmed. I think my point is clear. If not? I suggest you find and READ some of the Black Panther comic issues that I've mentioned. I'm sure your opinion will change. Why? Because it changed mine...
Below is a picture of a device developed by Black Panther which traveled on magnetic waves. It required little to NO fuel and was ONE of MANY developed Wakandan society WAY before Batman knew what a CPU was. While Batman was driving the Bat PLANE and Batmobile -- T'Challa was developing a myriad of space craft and transports that required little maintenance. It even left Reed Richard's in AWE of such a technological break through. Btw, Thanks Havoc for the vote of confidence. You do well yourself.
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I wish Nathaniel Grey had responded instead of you two yokols, then i could bring up another point instead of having to repeat myself.
The reason that you keep repeating yourself is because you have no valid points whatsoever to back up your claim that Batman is smarter, more resourceful, quicker, more agile, and stronger than Black Panther other than you stating that he is "just because".
Time and time again, Nathaniel Grey has backed up his points clearly and concisely on numerous posts to which you simply have not. You haven't given any examples to back up your claims that Batman is better in the areas that you say.
You've given no proof that Batman has a better ability to adapt, intelligence-wise. You've given no proof that Black Panther can't hold a candle to the "logistic genius of Batman". In fact, you go as far as to imply that BP is nothing but a savage compared to Batman. Wrong.
Black Panther is superior to Batman in every way. What is it about this that you just don't comprehend? If you don't comprehend this fact because you have some validity to your arguments and proof to go along with said arguments, please provide some clear examples or evidence instead of your muddied viewpoints or skewed opinions.
Originally posted by Nathaniel Grey
Black Panther with a PUNCH breaks apart the Red SKULL'S jaw. [b]NOTE; Red Skull inhabits a cloned body of Captain America and has all the same powers and skills AS Captain America. And yet -- his jaw is literally RIPPED off with a punch?! [/B]
I remember that one. Man, I felt so sorry for Skull, lol.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I have yet to see Batman loose to somebody his who basicaly he equal.
Well, although they can both hang with each other very well, after Nate's every single post, I wouldn't say that they're exactly equal.
And to say this now before any judgements come up, Nate's no fanboy. I've seen him defend Batman quite a few times on here. If he believes Panther can beat him, then he knows what he's talking about. From everything I've seen or read on both Black Panther and Batman, I'd quickly say Panther has the upper hand. Bats would give him the fight of his life and make him think on his feet, but I think in the end it would go to Panther.