Originally posted by 42ndStreetFreak
Originally posted by Marchello
(c)If there were a logical argument that proved that God did not exist...it has not yet been made known. If it were known then it would be in use by atheists. But since NO PROOF of God's NON-EXISTENCE has been successfully defended by atheists, we can conclude that thus far, that there are no logical proofs for God's non-existence.LMAO! What a moron!
There is no proof of the non-existence of the little green pixie with the red hair and wings on his elbows either.
So I guess my pixie has as much standing as your God.But if you attack, oppress and interfere in the lives of people based on the words of your supposed God YOUHAD BETTER have definate proof it even exists, don't you think??!!!.
Or keep you mouths shut and youyr deluded oppinions to yourself.
***N/A
Marchello
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You must prove that your god does exist before you can require anyone to prove that your god does not exist.
That makes logical sense...but then couldn't he use "eye witness" accounts and such?
I think it is futile to debate the existence of God because even if He visits you personally and tells you to tell the world that he visited you...how can you prove that?
Did you ever watch the movie "The Final Cut"? If we could record everything we see/hear...then we would have proof that God visited people and that Angels and blah blah blah.
But we don't, so proof does not exist etc. Like I said, futile to debate...in fact it is not even a debate.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That makes logical sense...but then couldn't he use "eye witness" accounts and such?I think it is futile to debate the existence of God because even if He visits you personally and tells you to tell the world that he visited you...how can you prove that?
Did you ever watch the movie "The Final Cut"? If we could record everything we see/hear...then we would have proof that God visited people and that Angels and blah blah blah.
But we don't, so proof does not exist etc. Like I said, futile to debate...in fact it is not even a debate.
I would be happy if he would give ""eye witness" accounts and such" instead of insulting people. If he wishes to believe in whatever, I don't hold that against him. What I don't like is wear people use there personal beliefs to denigrate other people. I consider that to be an act of ego violence. When you think you are superior to others, you are able to hurt them in ways that you would never do if you had love for them.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I would be happy if he would give ""eye witness" accounts and such" instead of insulting people. If he wishes to believe in whatever, I don't hold that against him. What I don't like is wear people use there personal beliefs to denigrate other people. I consider that to be an act of ego violence. When you think you are superior to others, you are able to hurt them in ways that you would never do if you had love for them.
Holy crap dude!!! I just noticed that your avatar blinks...that freaked me out!
Anyway...well yeah...see my post about claiming to be a Christian and then insulting everyone including Christians.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Why do you want to know so bad? If you were observant...you would almost know what my qualifications were...you would even know that I also studied to go to med school. (But quit about a year and half into it because I got maried.)Tell me your reaons first. And be honest.
Do you confuse "observant" with "reading all your posts"?
I want to know for the same reason you doubted my right to discuss astrophysics.
Now, you know mine, be fair and tell me yours.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This thread is just asking for trouble.I dont know how much its truth and how much is fiction, since i never read it, but im sure it wasnt ment to be taken literaly.
***Sure? How can you be sure if you never read it? What is your basis for such an arbitrary conclusion? I can only assume that you reached that conclusion based on your lack of knowledge since you NEVER read it.
Marchello
[*"I agree that the bible has been changed to fit what other men think ppl should be doing."]
***Agree?...and what is your agreement predicated on? Fact?...I think not. If you have facts to support your premise would you please present them? They might be enlightening to me and others. However...that being said...there is NO documentary evidence to support your conclusions that the Bible has been changed at all...and an abundance of evidence to the contrary.
************************************************
[*"...It's not real..."]
***You know no such thing! In point of fact, there are discoveries being made almost monthly in Israel that are confirming what the Bible has been saying within it's pages since the dawn of documented history.
************************************************
[*"...That was God in the old Testament but in the new Testament he changes to a loving God."]
***God NEVER changes: "For I am the LORD, I change NOT, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed" [Malachi 3:6].
The God of the OT [Yahweh] is the SAME God of the NT [Jesus Christ]. The God of the OT was also a LOVING God...but His anger could and was kindled by the disobedience of His CHOSEN people Israel because of their SIN against Him. Finally in His anger He sent them into the dispersion...but will someday gather them unto Himself because of the promises made to the Fathers.
The God of the NT is the SAME LOVING God who assumed the clothing of flesh in the person of Jesus Christ...and laid down His life to REDEEM sinners for their sins against God...so that they might be reconciled unto Him and attain eternal life. This LOVING God of the NT will...in the future...take vengence against sinners who have rejected Him and His REDEEMING sacrifice for them on Calvary's cross. He is PATIENT in His administration of justice and vengence because He does not want anyone to perish...but His patience will soon come to an end...and this unbelieving world will know of a CERTAINTY that Jesus Christ is the LORD of ALL.
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
...[B][*"...It's not real..."]***You know no such thing! In point of fact, there are discoveries being made almost monthly in Israel that are confirming what the Bible has been saying within it's pages since the dawn of documented history.
...[/B]
No matter how much you did up in Israel, you cannot make the Earth flat again.
*["its ironic how a God can change like that...as i said before, the New Testament is more 'convincing' than the Old Testament."]
***God does NOT change [Malachi 3:6]. Too, the NT is NOT "more convincing" than the OT...it CONFIRMS everything that is said in the OT.
In point of fact, the OT prophecies about Jesus Christ [i.e., His birth, life, death, resurrection, and His COMING in great glory] are foretold...and many have come to past and some are yet future.
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["its ironic how a God can change like that...as i said before, the New Testament is more 'convincing' than the Old Testament."]***God does NOT change [Malachi 3:6]. Too, the NT is NOT "more convincing" than the OT...it CONFIRMS everything that is said in the OT.
In point of fact, the OT prophecies about Jesus Christ [i.e., His birth, life, death, resurrection, and His COMING in great glory] are foretold...and many have come to past and some are yet future.Marchello [/B]
There are no true prophecies in the bible, they are all after the fact prophecies.
*["I think that Bible is only work of people...nothing of it said God..."]
***The operating word here is "I think"...indicating that you DON'T know of a "cetainty." The Bible states that "All Scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God..." [2 Timothy 3:16]...so the Bible DOES say God said it...and it IS His opinion. You refuse to believe that God INSPIRED man to record His words...that is why you say what you do.
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["I think that Bible is only work of people...nothing of it said God..."]***The operating word here is "I think"...indicating that you DON'T know of a "cetainty." The Bible states that "All Scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God..." [2 Timothy 3:16]...so the Bible DOES say God said it...and it IS His opinion. You refuse to believe that God INSPIRED man to record His words...that is why you say what you do.
Marchello [/B]
Did god also inspire all the changes that were made over the last 2000 years? Did god also inspire the incorrect information in the bible?
*["Unfortunately, the material has as a matter of course been tampered with a great deal by ill motivated people so alot of it is not what should be cannon."]
***Really? Pray tell me...what are your credentials that entitle you to make such profound statements? Too, would you please provide us with your evidence to confirm them?
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["Unfortunately, the material has as a matter of course been tampered with a great deal by ill motivated people so alot of it is not what should be cannon."]***Really? Pray tell me...what are your credentials that entitle you to make such profound statements? Too, would you please provide us with your evidence to confirm them?
Marchello [/B]
Texture Criticism
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Marchello
***Evidently, from your hostility, you do not believe there is a God. Therefore, I will go on that premise.
(A)To say that you believe there is no God has problems. On what would you be basing your belief that there is no God: evidence, lack of evidence, logic, faith, or a combination of all?
(1)If EVIDENCE, then what positive evidence is there that DISPROVES God's existence?
(a)There can be NO such evidence since evidence is physical in nature [i.e., EVIDENCE is an EFFECT and/or RESULT of something in REALITY]. How could evidence disprove God's existence who is, by definition, the creator of reality and separate from it?
(b)Testimony is admissible in court as evidence, but NO ONE can rightly testify that God does not exist.
(2)If lack of evdence, then it means he has NOT yet seen ALL evidence and there might be sufficient evidence to demonstrate God's existence. This would mean that God may indeed exist and the person really is an agnostic concerning God and his atheistic position is INCONSISTENT with his statement.
(3)If logic then WHAT logical proof do you have that negates God's existence?
(a)At best, logic can only disprove theistic proofs. Disproving theistic proofs does NOT mean there is NO God. It only means that the proofs thus presented are INSUFFICIENT.
(b)Logic can only disprove theistic proofs that are presented and negating such proofs is a refutation of all possible proofs...since no one can know or present all possible proofs of God's existence. Therefore, negation of proofs does NOT disprove God's existence.
(c)If there were a logical argument that proved that God did not exist...it has not yet been made known. If it were known then it would be in use by atheists. But since NO PROOF of God's NON-EXISTENCE has been successfully defended by atheists, we can conclude that thus far, that there are no logical proofs for God's non-existence.
(4)If faith alone, then the position is not held by logic or evidence and is an arbitrary position.
(5)If by a combination of evidence, logic, and/or faith, then according to the above analysis, neither is sufficient to validate atheism. A combination of insufficient means does not validate atheism.
(B)For someone to believe there is no God is to hold that belief by faith since there is no evidence that positively supports atheism and there are NO logical proofs that God does NOT exist. It is, after all, virtually impossible to prove a negative.
Marchello
your argument is built on shaky ground. please read this. if more people do we can avoid a lot of sensless argumentation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
also. bear in mind that the god of the bible claims certain attributes which can be logically tested for consistancy as the attributes themselves are part of logical understanding. even if you start with the basis of omnipotence/omniscience/omnipresence/omnibenevolance. many irrefuteable contradictions show up, affectively nulling and elminating such MODELS OF GOD{god itself as an unknowable can not perhaos be refuted but all byblical models CAN be, realise that}.
plus there are numerous contradictions between what he claims and what practically happens. plus the irrefuteable fact of the contradictions and fallacies in the bible.
repost. please address or stop devouring other people's brains.