Originally posted by BackFire
what gets me is when someone thinks one part should be taken literally, and another part shouldn't be. As if they change their minds on a wimb to simply help themselves out in an argument.
You will often encounter the "I'm not qualified to give you a definitive answer on what god meant by that" stance.
My take on the subject of this thread is that the only facts are the bibles existence and indisputable influence - everything else is up for grabs.
Originally posted by BackFire
I'm looking, I see rape, death, pain, and horror all over the world, are these the new age attributes of "Proof of God"?
Hey there, this is Morningstar's best friend, and i also happen to hold the same opinions as she does. Here's some food for thought.
A man walks into a barber shop to get his hair cut. While the barber is cutting his hair, he and the man get into a discussion about Christianity. The barber says that he doesnt believe in God, and the man asks why. The barbers says: "I look around and see rape, death, pain and horror all over the world. If there truly was a God, who is supposedly good and wonderful, then there would be nothing like that. I dont believe that if he existed then he would allow such awful things to happen."
"Well, by that token," the man replied, "I dont believe that barbers exist."
"What a stupid thing to say." the barber exclaimed. "Of course we exist. I'm standing right here cutting your hair. Why would you say a thing like that."
The man points out the window to where a man is standing. He is looking very unkempt and his hair and beard are dirty and in need of a good wash, comb and trim. "If there were barbers in the world," the man said "then there would be no people looking like that, because the barbers wouldn't allow it."
"But that's not my fault. I cant help them and cut their hair unless they come to me. Its their choice."
"Exactly." the man replied. "The same thing goes for God. He cant help you unless you go to him. He gave us freedom to choose what we want, and for some people that includes rejecting what is good - living like a good person, or cutting your hair. Besides we choose what happens to us. In the same way that we choose to cut our hair, we also choose to rape someone, choose to murder people and choose to cause people pain. God didn't make us mindless puppets who had no control, just like we're not all forced to get a haircut."
The barber said nothing.
The moral of this story is that God is there, but he still allows people the freedom of choice and sadly, the choices that we make are not always good.
Originally posted by ninjaturtle
"Exactly." the man replied. "The same thing goes for God. He cant help you unless you go to him. He gave us freedom to choose what we want, and for some people that includes rejecting what is good - living like a good person, or cutting your hair. Besides we choose what happens to us. In the same way that we choose to cut our hair, we also choose to rape someone, choose to murder people and choose to cause people pain. God didn't make us mindless puppets who had no control, just like we're not all forced to get a haircut."The barber said nothing.
The moral of this story is that God is there, but he still allows people the freedom of choice and sadly, the choices that we make are not always good.
Do we also "choose" to be crushed by falling rocks and develop Cancer?
Originally posted by The Omega
WindDancer> “Is hard to say what does God does.”
Why can that be? An omnipotent, omnipresent being can’t be THAT hard to notice.“But I think is better if humans would stop doing bad things in the first place.”
Well – God has the power to prevent the bad things from happening. He could start by removing poverty and disease. And God created us – according to Christians – we are his children. So why not simply intervene, instead of letting people die of starvation, disease, violence and war – innocent people even.Things like those happen to let these people know He's existing. 🙄
Why would He intervene in that sense? He already warned His people that these things will happen.... and many will die because of these disasters. It's up to man what would he choose to do next for his fragile life. 🙂“Maybe (just MAYBE) if we start to do better things for humanity God might appear and say "I'm proud of you guys".”
Why must all do that? What about the people who do the best they can? Like the humanitarian organisations, Red Cross, doctors without boundaries etc.? We’re children in Gods eyes. I wouldn’t let my children play with deadly tools. God lets his children play with nuclear bombs.Not all people are His children. He only knows who are His ... and His children know who He is.
Humanitarian missions and works are not enough to be called "good" in the sight of God. It's man's decision what to do. If it's his decision to create a poison and kill himself, then so be it. It's his decision.
Children of God knows what are the "good" things to do and follow.
Children of man can't barely see that.“Until then he prolly is just staring at us in disgust!” What an uncaring parent he is, huh? We must all take the blame for what others do. Well, Canaan took the blame for Ham, so the justice system there is warped anyways.
He cared for all of us. It's us who do not care for Him.
“Maybe God's is saying...."Why did I created them? They are just a shame”.”
Well, he killed everyone once before – the flood. Why didn’t he make us good?In fact, He did. He created man according to His image -- holy and blameless -- but man chooses to do evil because of evil.
So God has to set up a rule -- a law -- a commandment -- to barely know what is "good" and what is "evil".
After all, it's man's decision to believe in it and to obey in it.
🙂
No, it is inconsistent and contradictory. If you had read the whole thing you'd know that. For example, it teaches that God loves us unconditionally, yet the ten commandments teach that unless you worship him, you will go to hell. A being that truly loved me would not send me to hell if I had done no wrong.
If he come to recognize God's laws and still ignored God's will throughout his life, why not?
But man who lived under the law will be judged under the law, as God's law says, and those who lived apart from the law will be judged apart from the law.
But one must seek the law, in order to be saved, not just ignoring it. 🙂
Since we have been talking about Noah recently - here is one of my personal faves.
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 - 7:9 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Can you imagine Noahs confusion... Seven? two? no wait - seven . two. Can we just call it three Lord?
Originally posted by Jury
If he come to recognize God's laws and still ignored God's will throughout his life, why not?But man who lived under the law will be judged under the law, as God's law says, and those who lived apart from the law will be judged apart from the law.
But one must seek the law, in order to be saved, not just ignoring it. 🙂
How do you know he DID come to recognize "God's laws"? If some guy in a third-world country grew up, living his life out without ever having knowledge of Christianity... Would he go to hell?
I mean, even if he already recognized God's law and yet ignored it, he will be judge through that law. If not, then God would judge him apart from the law.
As what the Bible said:
But man who lived under the law will be judged under the law, and those who lived apart from the law will be judged apart from the law.
🙂
Originally posted by Mr Zero
Since we have been talking about Noah recently - here is one of my personal faves.GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 - 7:9 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Can you imagine Noahs confusion... Seven? two? no wait - seven . two. Can we just call it three Lord?
Gen 7:2-9, (NIV)
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,
3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
5 And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him.
6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood.
8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along tha ground,
9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah.
What's contradictory in there?
I don't know how you understand "seven" and "two" there. 🙄