The Bible

A third of the world. (2 billion Christians)

Actually, most of that isn't because they chose to love God, it's that they don't want to choose the possible alternative. I bet you if there was a third choice, people would opt for it. In christianity, it's love god or be tortured in hell forever. Not exactly fair, is it? Using scare tactics to influence a person's choice is the bare minimum of what you can call free will. Yes, they have the choice to not accept god, but if they do, they are tormented for all eternity. Therefore, they'd choose god, just to escape Hell. There's really nothing genuine in that.

Again, my parent/child analogy works for the "curiosity killed the cat" thing as well. If the cat goes out searching for trouble, then it gets what it deserves, but if trouble was placed right in front of it, then the cat shouldn't be held totally responsible.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
A third of the world. (2 billion Christians)

Actually, most of that isn't because they chose to love God, it's that they don't want to choose the possible alternative. I bet you if there was a third choice, people would opt for it. In christianity, it's love god or be tortured in hell forever. Not exactly fair, is it? Using scare tactics to influence a person's choice is the bare minimum of what you can call free will. Yes, they have the choice to not accept god, but if they do, they are tormented for all eternity. Therefore, they'd choose god, just to escape Hell. There's really nothing genuine in that.

Again, my parent/child analogy works for the "curiosity killed the cat" thing as well. If the cat goes out searching for trouble, then it gets what it deserves, but if trouble was placed right in front of it, then the cat shouldn't be held totally responsible.

That's why I halfed it

Does that actually happen in todays world? You're gonna have to give me a quote, as I don't know what it would be like. My knowledge is too small.

Yes, but you ignored the rest of it. It's a choice that the cat has. It sees a scratch post, it knows that it has an electric shock (from past experience), but it has curiosity to make a choice.

I found out today that the reason why terrorist attacked america is because 3million muslums convert to christianty and they don't like that so that is why we were attacked oh yeah more war is comming and the new world order I've seen the list of one world goverment.

Conversion had nothing to do with it- insanity did. Infidels on the Arabian peninsula.......

... terrorists attacked America because they said that they would help the afghanis fight the russians and help them save their homeland. After years and years of fighting with the Russians and doing America's dirty work the country was devastated... Many Afghanis and many Russians died. After America had the Taliban do our work for us, we left... leaving the country devastated and in ruins. The religous propaganda spread by the United States... books, pamphlets, etc which they used to get people excited for war against the infidel was turned against us. When the Iraqis attacked Kuwait the Saudi Royalty asked the Americans to intervine and allowed them to occupy Islamic holy land instead of the followers of Osama Bin Ladin. This was insulting to Osama so he started a terrorist campaign using the training he recieved to begin his own training faccilities. He trained many operatives... the first WTC bombing, the Embassy bombings, the USS Cole, the 19 high jackers, etc. While they may say different things like the spreading of Western Culture,etc, and while these may be true to some degree, it would not have gone down like this if we had stayed clear of Afghanistan in the first place, or if we had been more clear with the Iraqis prior to their invasion of Kuwait. Of course there is more war coming... there are a lot of people pissed at the US, as far as a new world order, i dunno... seems like that is unlikely, but who knows.

Well, it was bin laden's group with the support of taliban that was behind the attacks. Bin laden is a hardcore Islamist who believes not just that the Arabian peninsula is holy land but that no infidels should be there at all. He was friends with people in the taliban, who sheltered him when Saudi police were set to arrest him. Not that the US is perfect but the devastation in Afghanistan was caused by the former Soviet Union.....

So the fault starts with them the way I see it.

We really prolonged that conflict though... we are as responsible for that kind of escalation as the Soviets. We did train the Taliban and the Mujahadin and gave them stinger missles, weapons, etc. They were just part of America's fight against communism expansion...

They were pissed at us for leaving them in ruins, whether the destruction was caused by them or us, it did not matter. They would have had a better quality of life as part of the Soviet Union. Prior to the US invasion they averaged some $800 dollars a year per person annual income and their primary export was opium... things sucked for them and they had an understandable dislike for their former ally, the richest nation in the world, easliy capable of helping them get on their feet instead they let them starve.

You have a point about the escalation, although the Soviets were the ones who started the whole thing. The US was attacked by al Quaeda (?) who were sheltered by the Taliban (who hated all outsiders not of the Islanic faith).

In what manner do you mean the USSR started it? Do you mean their invasion of Afghanistan, or the Cold War in general?

Bin Laden is pissed of the US influence over the Saudi Arabia which actually is the country of the holy Mekka, Bin Laden wants the infidels out of the holy land and ties cut. He has pin pointed USA as Satan the big enemy of all of the muslim world.

It was announced by an EU commission member that Europe will be a collection of Islamic republics in the near future; to quote, "an extension of North Africa..." that makes it official.

It was announced by an EU commission member that Europe will be a collection of Islamic republics in the near future; to quote, "an extension of North Africa..." that makes it official.

Originally posted by Ytaker
That's why I halfed it

Does that actually happen in todays world? You're gonna have to give me a quote, as I don't know what it would be like. My knowledge is too small.

Yes, but you ignored the rest of it. It's a choice that the cat has. It sees a scratch post, it knows that it has an electric shock (from past experience), but it has curiosity to make a choice.

Yes, it actually happens. Who do you want me to quote? I attend a Lutheran school, so yes I know these things. Some people will admit it, but most won't, because they're embarassed.

I didn't ignore anything. Adam didn't have a past experience, the cat you are presenting did. If the cat is stupid enough to get electrocuted twice by the same object, then **** it. Adam and Eve messed up once, and the rest of humanity pays for it? It's still unfair, no matter what argument you are pulling out of your ass.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This thread is just asking for trouble.

I dont know how much its truth and how much is fiction, since i never read it, but im sure it wasnt ment to be taken literaly.

Originally posted by finti
will never happen

You're as naive as the members of the UKIP party who think that the UK constitution is infallible just because of stuff like bills against arbitrary arrests in the 17th Century 🙄 Most people will just follow the crowd. If enough people around them are muslim, they will convert.

In response to Imperial Samura, I was referring of the Soviets' invasion. People are sheep-like in general but changing their religion usually takes more than what the crowd is doing.....

You're as naive as the members of the UKIP party who think that the UK constitution is infallible just because of stuff like bills against arbitrary arrests in the 17th Century Most people will just follow the crowd. If enough people around them are muslim, they will convert.

Very good point, finti. Scare tactics are common everywhere.

The EU Commission is a far cry from the Third Reich on such issues. It is worth a raised eyebrow if any of them feel it worth announcing.

Originally posted by shaber
It was announced by an EU commission member that Europe will be a collection of Islamic republics in the near future; to quote, "an extension of North Africa..." that makes it official.

Out of curiosity... Which EU commission member said that?
There was also this Italian member who during this week claimed that homosexuality is evil and women belong in a kitchen.
SO, in conclusion, not every commission member knows what's really going on.