Originally posted by FeceMan
I don't follow.
What do you mean you dont follow? You said why should god have interviened since the holocaust was an error caused by humans.. humans were created by god (as religions say) and yet god did nothing when all this death was happening.. becusae there is no god
What do you mean you dont follow? You said why should god have interviened since the holocaust was an error caused by humans.. humans were created by god (as religions say) and yet god did nothing when all this death was happening.. becusae there is no god
human error? God created humans? I guess god is not perfect right? Also what was worst then the holocaust that killed 6 million jews and another few million soldiers?
God created humans and gave them free will. Human error is an inevitable part of free will as we were not created to be perfect.
You guess God isnt perfect? relative to what?
humans were created by god (as religions say) and yet god did nothing when all this death was happening.. becusae there is no god
God created death so why would you expect him to stop it? If he created it, its obviously there for a reason. That reason being punishment for the sins that adam and eve committed. From thence forth, all man would eventually die.
God gave people free choice. This means that people have to be able to carry out bad just as they carry out good.
Additonally, the bible says that there is an after life, so life itself isnt all about your time on earth. That is just one part of it.
God gave people free choice. This means that people have to be able to carry out bad just as they carry out good.
That's a ****** excuse. "Well, I considered stopping the rape when I came across, it but then I thought, 'But what about the rapists free will? I wouldn't want to take that away.' So I just stood by and watched; it was clearly the only responsible thing to do."
God gave people free choicethats the excuse they came up with because they actually doesnt have a desent answer for it. So they made up this lame ass stuff, just like the other brilliant excuse they have "god works in mysterious ways" which actually translates too " I havent got a freakin clue why, they never thought of those situation when they created those stories"
who said atheist believe in aliens, and I guess they dismiss the posibility of god because its crap
True, not all atheists believe in aliens. Some obviously do and I was speaking about them.
All the theories out there opperate on faith. The big bang, thats faith. God, faith and so on. So while I understand that you dont believe in god, whatever else you believe in can essentially be called crap by your own standards. Thus, that is not solid reasoning for dismissing God.
That's a ****** excuse. "Well, I considered stopping the rape when I came across, it but then I thought, 'But what about the rapists free will? I wouldn't want to take that away.' So I just stood by and watched; it was clearly the only responsible thing to do."
If god stopped it then free will would have been affected. Humans do not have such a policy and as such can intervene. If somebody could only do things on the good side of the spectrum, it wouldnt truly be free will. I think the point is that god wants to see if you will stay faithful.
thats the excuse they came up with because they actually doesnt have a desent answer for it. So they made up this lame ass stuff, just like the other brilliant excuse they have "god works in mysterious ways" which actually translates too " I havent got a freakin clue why, they never thought of those situation when they created those stories"
If you feel that its an excuse fair enough. But tell me, how could somebody truly have free will if god intervened to literally stop them ?
If god stopped it then free will would have been affected. Humans do not have such a policy and as such can intervene. If somebody could only do things on the good side of the spectrum, it wouldnt truly be free will. I think the point is that god wants to see if you will stay faithful.
It's still a lousy excuse. Every one who uses it seems to take it for granted that if we didn't have the free will to rape and murder, it would somehow be a bad thing. I don't see it--when did we decide that free will was so much more important than happiness? Who decided it? Did the rape and assault victims get a say in the matter?
And if you're a Christian, I have a question for you: in the Old Testiment, God intervened all the time. When the people of Sodom and that other place exercised their free will in the wrong way, he smacked them down. Was free will less important back then or something?
Furthermore, it's perfectly obvious that, if God created us, by the very act of creating us like He did, he limited our free will. When he decided against giving us wings, it limited our free will--we can't fly around. When he decided to create me heterosexual, He limited my free will--I can't find other men attractive. Clearly, God limits our free will in a thousand ways--why won't he limit it in one or two more ways to keep people from suffering and dying? Why are the thousands of limitations that do exist okay, but those limitations would be bad?
Originally posted by clickclick
quote:
thats the excuse they came up with because they actually doesnt have a desent answer for it. So they made up this lame ass stuff, just like the other brilliant excuse they have "god works in mysterious ways" which actually translates too " I havent got a freakin clue why, they never thought of those situation when they created those stories"If you feel that its an excuse fair enough. But tell me, how could somebody truly have free will if god intervened to literally stop them ?
Because free will does not depend on a god for it's existence. There are innumerable possibilities before each of us. The one that finally happens has little to do with free will.
And if you're a Christian, I have a question for you: in the Old Testiment, God intervened all the time. When the people of Sodom and that other place exercised their free will in the wrong way, he smacked them down. Was free will less important back then or something?
Originally posted by FeceMan
That was before a sacrifice for all our sins had been made.
What does that have to do with anything? And after the sacrifice, God still struck Saul blind, and someone Peter allegedly struck Ananias and Sapphira dead, via divine power, for not giving him money or something. So God is willing to kill someone for being stingy, but not to prevent them from commiting rape or murder?
And in Revelation--also after the sacrifice--God is allegedly going to screw around with everyone's free will in a very final and serious way.
Originally posted by omega_star_23I'm pretty sure being agnostic means basically that you have examined the evidence and don't think there is a god, but are open to further evidence that there might be one. While regular atheists believe firmly there is no God. That's what I read.. I could be wrong.
Um, for the few that have stated they are agnostic athiests how in the world can you get that?? an atheist believes in nothing and an agnostic believes in something but believe we will never know what that something is...so do you believe or not??
What does that have to do with anything?
And in Revelation--also after the sacrifice--God is allegedly going to screw around with everyone's free will in a very final and serious way.
Because free will does not depend on a god for it's existence. There are innumerable possibilities before each of us. The one that finally happens has little to do with free will.
What I stated was if he intervened it wouldnt be free will.
Natural processes.
Natural proccesses? What natural process is it that would allow space, time and such to exist without being created?
It's still a lousy excuse. Every one who uses it seems to take it for granted that if we didn't have the free will to rape and murder, it would somehow be a bad thing. I don't see it--when did we decide that free will was so much more important than happiness? Who decided it? Did the rape and assault victims get a say in the matter?And if you're a Christian, I have a question for you: in the Old Testiment, God intervened all the time. When the people of Sodom and that other place exercised their free will in the wrong way, he smacked them down. Was free will less important back then or something?
Furthermore, it's perfectly obvious that, if God created us, by the very act of creating us like He did, he limited our free will. When he decided against giving us wings, it limited our free will--we can't fly around. When he decided to create me heterosexual, He limited my free will--I can't find other men attractive. Clearly, God limits our free will in a thousand ways--why won't he limit it in one or two more ways to keep people from suffering and dying? Why are the thousands of limitations that do exist okay, but those limitations would be bad?
Nobody said that the lack of free will to rape and murder would be a bad thing but it would not be free will between bad and good choices.Bad being of the devil and good being of god. We make are own decisions, be it screwing up or doing good. That is your test, according to the bible. You cant be tested if you cant do wrong.
I dont know that I would identify myself as christian per se. I dont read the bible and I really couldnt tell you much about it. I dont necessarily believe the things that are written in it.
As to the old testament, I suppose it wasnt the same then. Supposedly everything changed when jesus died.
God created us with the ability to have free will with are choices, between good and bad. Not to be omnipotent, or having wings whatever.
I dont know that you were created heterosexual though either.
Anyway, people have to die, it is what it is. The bible says that it was a punishment for human sin. But ill also add this, people put a lot of importance on their time on earth but death on earth is not the end of life.