Batman vs Spiderman

*sigh* I was so hoping to argue with someone else for a change...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No it doesn't, it isn't a small advantage, spiderman would murder batman in hand to hand, its no way around it. Spiderman has beaten titania, who would eat 12 batmans for breakfast.

You mean how it was a huge advantage against DD, Wolverine, Countless nameless ninjas, I beleive also Iron Fist, and countless other martial artist? Spiderman has consistently been shown to only have a slight advantage over great fighters but here for some reason It's more than that? Batman has beaten a weak superman, who would eat 50 spidermans for breakfast (you see how I did that, I switched the names and number in one of your sentenced to show how pointless it was. neato huh?).

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
His fighting is so overrated here, considering he does little else besides traditional punches and kicks, spiderman has done much more impressive moves.

So what book have you been reading? Maybe you should stop buying counterfeit comics books drawn by hand by children in third world countries cause you sure as hell aint reading the same books the rest of us are if that your opinion.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Not by a longshot. Spiderman's fights alone, there's a reason bats has the JLA to back his ass up. "Batmans villans" are usually guys like, 2face, riddler, and penguin, not very impressive, compared to VEnom, Carnage, and Black Tarantula.

It's more like he's backing the JLA. You forgot all 5 clayfaces (the mudpack), Azreal, Croc. And how funny that you brought up characters that consistently beat the snot out of Spiderman.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman is all about unorthodox, there is really noone quite like him, thats why he is who he is. Climb a wall, sure. Swing away, no problem, spiderman is equipped for situations without much preparation, and if he had prep he'd be better off. Spiderman's items came from a school.

Again you fail to appreciate the ability to mislead your opponents matrix of expectations. Orthodox/unorthodox goes to the strategist.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Batman has the moving disadvantage hands down, Spiderman is one of the best dodgers in the MU, you'd be surprised by what he could dodge.

Not suprised at all.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
First it was a sparring match, Bats has a need to be shown doing best so often, like his Marvel counterpart Captain America, who broke the Hulk's grip.

Yes it was a sparring match, how nice of you to note that in my post and redundantly repeat it. And the second sentence here makes it sound like you agree with me.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman is MUCH faster than these guys, hands down. In terms of running, probably not, but the stronger the muscles the faster he goes. He is a lightweight, and can outspeed cars if need be. Combat speed and running/typing speed are two different things. Spiderman has been described as a blur in high gear, which he hardly goes anyway. A faster runner wouldn't be faster in a fight than a faster fighter. And spiderman is a faster and stronger hitter than batman. Bats does little else than bassic punches and kicks.

Mitch, when was the last time you read a fight with spiderman fighting a street level character? Against Wolverine, he say's "if I let up for a second he'll get me." Kingpin, Punisher, countless martial artist, Daredevil, and God knows who else have all proven fast enough to tag Spidey. Yet because you say he is "MUCH" faster we should all just take your word for it right? It doesn't matter that it's been a certain way in comics for decades right? You know much more than all of spidey's writers right?

You have some good arguments but I'm still not convinced that batman could win the majority of times. 😄
This took me ages to write so I'm prolly way behing now lol.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Better fighter easily. As Mitch has argued Spidey is the more effective fighter thanks to his physical gifts, but this is only a small advantage for spidey. Batman has taken it to many specimens far superior to him because he is indeed such a good fighter. He's broken one of Wonder Womans holds, he's taken on top amazons, and don't forget that his ususal bunch of enemies is underated, like when he's taken on the entire Mudpack. On the other hand, Daredevil has proven that having a superior fighting ability can lead to vicotry. Even Jigsaw managed to break one of Spidey's arms. So yes, the fighting advantage goes to Batman.

This still assumes that Batman is a better fighter because he has more training.
Spiderman's fighting ability is inherent and his techniques are unique due to his altered physiology. His "style" though it may have no name is beyond the capabilities of ordinary human beings.
Spidey's style also has no ordinary human martial arts style designed to counter it, because how can and why would something be designed to counter movements no one believes achievable?
This also assumes knowing more styles automatically makes someone a better fighter as opposed to being able to use/apply a particular style better.
Spider-Man knows how to use what he knows as well if not better than Batman knows how to use any one style.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I suppose experience is debatable, although I beleive the variety of villians and the amount of villians that Bats has taken is considerably greater. The quality of villians I also beleive to be higher, Spiderman can outsmart like 95% of his villians, a luxury Batman does not share.

This is totally debatable but for the purposes of this I'm going to assume that they're about the same age because Batman's been around a lot longer. If we go on the fact that Spiderman's been fighting crime since he was in his teens vs Batman who started much later, then technically Batman has less experience. The quality of the villains is also highly debatable but this isn't a Joker vs Green Goblin thread so we won't go there.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Versatility in the sense of gadegt superiority. While Spidey has done some really cool things with his webbing, Batman outweighs that in number of gadgets alone, and always takes an opportunity to use his gadgets in an unexpected or unorthodox way.

Spider-Man is as versatile in the use of his environment to his advantage as Batman can be with the use of his tools I would say.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
As for range we misunderstand eachother, I means as far as producing attacks that were ranged. Spiderman is obviously more maneuverable, although Batman is no slouch in this area. And I beleive "grounded" to hardly be a fair assessment.

You do agree however that in my sense of range Spidey is by far superior?

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Speed is a small factor, Spiderman is only a small degree faster than peek humans as he has shown in his comics. let's say two combatants were equal except one was a better fighter and one was slightly faster, who would you expect to win?

Agility is obviously in Spiderman's court.

Speed and agility are traits that in a way go hand in hand so I don't see how you can argue that while Spiderman has an clear agility superiority that his speed advantage is minimal. He has a high agility ie the ease and variety of movement which he displays, but in order to perform those movements with such grace and ease he requires the ability to generate speeds quite a ways above peak human I'd assume.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Durability is argueable. Batman's suit has proven to provide him with some protection from foes much stronger than spiderman. I beleive, also, that you underestimate Batman's potential for damage. He's defeated Solomun Grundy in hand to hand, someone far more durable than Spiderman.

Well that is valid to an extent but it's still ambiguous how much blunt force damage a suit thin enough to allow fast movement can accept. I'm going to take the factor of durability and combine it with endurance to put it in the context of this fight. Blow for blow I don't see how Batman's peak human strength can damage Spidey more than vice versa with Spidey's superhuman strength. I don't see how Batman would outlast Spiderman.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
I beleive that Batman edged out Spiderman's academic intellegence. His enemies are far more likely to try and use this against him so he has to be very aware of this kind of knowledge.

I can't agree that Bruce Wayne's academic intelligence is higher than Peter Parker's. Parker is something of a child prodigy in the physical and biochemical sciences if I recall. Deducing a formula for an artificial substance of the tensile strength of spider silk is as yet unaccomplished by real world leaders in the fields of materials sciences I think.

(BTW whats up with that cursor help crap that keeps appearing in my post by spiderman's name when I preview?)

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Leverage is putting your opponent in a posistion which leaves him more suseptible to attack, yes this allows you to soundly beat a stronger, larger opponent. But that only goes so far, spiderman is bad writing, ridiculous.

No, I meant literal leverage and mechanical advantage. You have a fulcrum and some input and out put and you make it work for you. Don't they teach fundamentals of grappling in the army now?

Leverage, well can a 2 year old child break a grown mans arm with leverage? You must have some strength to break it and if you compare Spidey to Jigsaw, well Jiggi has not to strength to break it. Spideys bones have a bigger dense, he is not not normal human he is super human.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
No, I meant literal leverage and mechanical advantage. You have a fulcrum and some input and out put and you make it work for you. Don't they teach fundamentals of grappling in the army now?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You have some good arguments but I'm still not convinced that batman could win the majority of times. 😄
This took me ages to write so I'm prolly way behing now lol.

This still assumes that Batman is a better fighter because he has more training.
Spiderman's fighting ability is inherent and his techniques are unique due to his altered physiology. His "style" though it may have no name is beyond the capabilities of ordinary human beings.
Spidey's style also has no ordinary human martial arts style designed to counter it, because how can and why would something be designed to counter movements no one believes achievable?
This also assumes knowing more styles automatically makes someone a better fighter as opposed to being able to use/apply a particular style better.
Spider-Man knows how to use what he knows as well if not better than Batman knows how to use any one style.

But his anatomy is too comparable to a humans (cause he is one) for his style to be so different that it is not counterable. And the fact that it is indeed a style is a disadvantage. The longer the fight goes on, the more likley that his style will be adjusted to and the easier it will be to counter. And Batman has shown the greatest of adaptabilities, so we're talking a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This is totally debatable but for the purposes of this I'm going to assume that they're about the same age because Batman's been around a lot longer. If we go on the fact that Spiderman's been fighting crime since he was in his teens vs Batman who started much later, then technically Batman has less experience. The quality of the villains is also highly debatable but this isn't a Joker vs Green Goblin thread so we won't go there.

All I'm saying is that being able to outsmart a large chunk of your opponents is quite the luxury to have. Batman's win rate is also far greater, although you should theoretically learn more from your loses

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Spider-Man is as versatile in the use of his environment to his advantage as Batman can be with the use of his tools I would say.

Then number of gadgets alone should convince you that versatility goes to Batman no?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You do agree however that in my sense of range Spidey is by far superior?

Absolutley.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Speed and agility are traits that in a way go hand in hand so I don't see how you can argue that while Spiderman has an clear agility superiority that his speed advantage is minimal. He has a high agility ie the ease and variety of movement which he displays, but in order to perform those movements with such grace and ease he requires the ability to generate speeds quite a ways above peak human I'd assume.

If Batman could land 12 punches in a second, then Spiderman could land 13. I don't necessarily see agility and speed as one in the same.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well that is valid to an extent but it's still ambiguous how much blunt force damage a suit thin enough to allow fast movement can accept. I'm going to take the factor of durability and combine it with endurance to put it in the context of this fight. Blow for blow I don't see how Batman's peak human strength can damage Spidey more than vice versa with Spidey's superhuman strength. I don't see how Batman would outlast Spiderman.

I wouldn't ask you to, I simply want you to realize that Batman does indeed have some time before he goes down.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I can't agree that Bruce Wayne's academic intelligence is higher than Peter Parker's. Parker is something of a child prodigy in the physical and biochemical sciences if I recall. Deducing a formula for an artificial substance of the tensile strength of spider silk is as yet unaccomplished by real world leaders in the fields of materials sciences I think.

Bruce's knowledge is in those fields is comparable and he has vast knowledge in far more areas of science. as for the second part I wouldn't dare say that around a bridge engineer.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
(BTW whats up with that cursor help crap that keeps appearing in my post by spiderman's name when I preview?)

Sorry, I have no idea.

im sad to say that under normal conditions bats would lose. however i think if bats can richochet enough batarangs to cause spidey to have to do so much dodging that he can inflict a nerve strike....well that the only way i see it working. or hed have to gas him or something.

but i fear spidey wins in most circumstances. i mean....spidey is a better "webswinger" too, so bats cant escape.

Originally posted by Arahan
Leverage, well can a 2 year old child break a grown mans arm with leverage? You must have some strength to break it and if you compare Spidey to Jigsaw, well Jiggi has not to strength to break it. Spideys bones have a bigger dense, he is not not normal human he is super human.

Don't be foolish, your comparison is not comparable. The strength of a two year old child is not enough but the weight is more than enough, this is what i'm saying, leverage. Spiderman's limbs are not so strong that a human is incapable of breaking them. Jigsaw had more than enough strength to break it.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its the same thing,grapple or not.

Not the way you described it.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
*sigh* I was so hoping to argue with someone else for a change...

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
You mean how it was a huge advantage against DD, Wolverine, Countless nameless ninjas, I beleive also Iron Fist, and countless other martial artist? Spiderman has consistently been shown to only have a slight advantage over great fighters but here for some reason It's more than that? Batman has beaten a weak superman, who would eat 50 spidermans for breakfast (you see how I did that, I switched the names and number in one of your sentenced to show how pointless it was. neato huh?).

Yep its called writing, your point, you cant use logic because you have none, its all entertainment, funny how you believe everything thats to your advantage. Batman beating a weak supes, fanboy argument #1. BAne beat batman, so go away.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
So what book have you been reading? Maybe you should stop buying counterfeit comics books drawn by hand by children in third world countries cause you sure as hell aint reading the same books the rest of us are if that your opinion.

Where are bats fancy moves, I've seen spidey do moves that bats dreams of. Now you insult poorer countries, pathetiec,lets see you go there then.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
It's more like he's backing the JLA. You forgot all 5 clayfaces (the mudpack), Azreal, Croc. And how funny that you brought up characters that consistently beat the snot out of Spiderman.

Stupid, stupid, stupid argument. If it weren't for bats popularity, he'd do little, seeing as he gets Beaten by Bane. These annoying presumptions that bats beats everyone, because of his training is stupid, bats and wolverine are the last characters to use books for. Seeing as they're always PIS/CIS in a sense, bats gets hit less than flash, which is pathetic, explain to me how bats would survive these hits, instead of just metioning them, another weak argument here.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Again you fail to appreciate the ability to mislead your opponents matrix of expectations. Orthodox/unorthodox goes to the strategist.

No it doesnt' spidey uses SCHOOL equipment on his foes, he has the strategy on his feet, this is a random match, I really don't see bats winning.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Not suprised at all.

Good

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Yes it was a sparring match, how nice of you to note that in my post and redundantly repeat it. And the second sentence here makes it sound like you agree with me.

yep yi=ou were the one using these stupid feats as the bible, I had no choice but to shoot it.

Yep I agree, batman is full of crap quite often.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Mitch, when was the last time you read a fight with spiderman fighting a street level character? Against Wolverine, he say's "if I let up for a second he'll get me." Kingpin, Punisher, countless martial artist, Daredevil, and God knows who else have all proven fast enough to tag Spidey. Yet because you say he is "MUCH" faster we should all just take your word for it right? It doesn't matter that it's been a certain way in comics for decades right? You know much more than all of spidey's writers right?

Yep he doesn't kick it into high gear, that, and the fact that its writng.

Spidey's up here

Bats down here, they show spidey at his weakest often enough, they ALWAYS show bats at his strongest, so he won't look obsolete in front of his pals.

Wolverine would have killed him if he let up, duh, what is he superman, those claws are fatal.

Spidey has hurt the hulk, but can't hurt wolverine, these fanboy arguments, are really stale.

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
im sad to say that under normal conditions bats would lose. however i think if bats can richochet enough batarangs to cause spidey to have to do so much dodging that he can inflict a nerve strike....well that the only way i see it working. or hed have to gas him or something.

That's just the thing, what's to stop him from using gas? What's to stop him from using a gas, batarangs, explosioins combo? Everyone keep argueing Spidey like he's in bloodlust, and if that's the case Batman only needs on hit.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Don't be foolish, your comparison is not comparable. The strength of a two year old child is not enough but the weight is more than enough, this is what i'm saying, leverage. Spiderman's limbs are not so strong that a human is incapable of breaking them. Jigsaw had more than enough strength to break it.

Not the way you described it.

Says who, spidey's body parts have been augmented so he can lift heavy loads easily. And his muscle density is FAR superior, that AND he's most flexible, this is shit writing, no doubt.

You missed the lesson on those, and now you come after class to complain, making us have to do a "catch up" session with you.

Those writers are paid to entertain and keep you reading, nothing else. They show the opposite, because it catches your attention. As for believing entertainment 100% thats stupid, entertainment is one of the least accurate things around.

Oh poor Mitch, now you're just argueing crap writing left and right. Don't worry Mitch, we'll put you away and all the crap writers won't be able to bother you anymore, although I'm afraid you'll have to be completely cut off from comics.

Maybe one of these days you'll get a tutor that'll learn you to read a little better and you can finally be put to rest.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
That's just the thing, what's to stop him from using gas? What's to stop him from using a gas, batarangs, explosioins combo? Everyone keep argueing Spidey like he's in bloodlust, and if that's the case Batman only needs on hit.

No he'll need several, because he'll stand no chance against him in hand to hand beserk.

Bloodlust are the rules in all debates, unless stated otherwise, you should know that seeing as I've been here a shorter time than you.

Explosions, there is a pre cog there, spideys' dodged much worse.

His gadgets are limited, making up stuff like that sounds desperate.

He's using these "up" close, it he is such a more effective fighter than spidey he wouldn't need them, that, and he can't use those gadgets in melee, he's screwed.

I meant tensile strength by volume and weight. 😄 the materials used to support bridges are still just metal alloys aren't they not novel artificial compouds? I think steel has less than half the tensile strength of spider silk.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Oh poor Mitch, now you're just argueing crap writing left and right. Don't worry Mitch, we'll put you away and all the crap writers won't be able to bother you anymore, although I'm afraid you'll have to be completely cut off from comics.

Maybe one of these days you'll get a tutor that'll learn you to read a little better and you can finally be put to rest.

I'm arguing accuracy, its not crap if its entertaining, seeing as you can use little else, you rely on that, I'm basically arguing both sides here. As you can do little else, but use "shit" examples, such irrelevancy, the only reason you're getting a response is because no one else is here, and I'm bored.

Fanboy arguments, believe everything that is utterly ridiculous.

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
im sad to say that under normal conditions bats would lose. however i think if bats can richochet enough batarangs to cause spidey to have to do so much dodging that he can inflict a nerve strike....well that the only way i see it working. or hed have to gas him or something.

but i fear spidey wins in most circumstances. i mean....spidey is a better "webswinger" too, so bats cant escape.

Basic common sense, they are just arguing for its own sake, with the "WHat if" bs, giving batman whatever they like to win. 🙂

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I meant tensile strength by volume and weight. the materials used to support bridges are still just metal alloys aren't they not novel artificial compouds? I think steel has less than half the tensile strength of spider silk.

Well spiderman's web is not so strong that it cannot be cut...and the rest I agree with you....

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This still assumes that Batman is a better fighter because he has more training.
Spiderman's fighting ability is inherent and his techniques are unique due to his altered physiology. His "style" though it may have no name is beyond the capabilities of ordinary human beings.
Spidey's style also has no ordinary human martial arts style designed to counter it, because how can and why would something be designed to counter movements no one believes achievable?
This also assumes knowing more styles automatically makes someone a better fighter as opposed to being able to use/apply a particular style better.
Spider-Man knows how to use what he knows as well if not better than Batman knows how to use any one style.

Well to say that spiderman's fighting style is unorthodox is not true...lets look at it...spiderman's senses have just been heighten..smell, touch..sight..hearing..feel(I always forget the last one) these are all things a person gets when they train in various martial arts... but of course not in the degree as spiderman...Strength and reflexes have all been given to him and he combines them well...strength and reflexes also come with training in various martial arts...the only thing that is out of the ball park is the spider sense...and even a mediocre version of this can be achieved through training...Now give an accomplished gymnast a stick shoe to climb walls and they will be able to do 95% of the stuff spiderman does...

Just showing you that when you break down spiderman unorthodox fighting style it is not so unorthodox and can be adapted to..

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
He's using these "up" close, it he is such a more effective fighter than spidey he wouldn't need them, that, and he can't use those gadgets in melee, he's screwed.

I thought it would be obvious that batman uses the gadgets to equalize the playing field...and they work too...quite nicely if I might add...

I agree his gadgets are excellent, but everytime we get to that point, someone comes along, and says "batman knows martial arts" sigh, nothing personal though.

Does anyone know specifics of what Batman's usual gadget array is btw?

Don't bother, I've asked this to be displayed in the beginning, so the matches wouldn't go on like this, seeing as there is noother straightforward answer here, Batman loses severely.