Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
We are agreeing here, I just wanted to point out the vagueness of the system there, in terms of speed.
Oh hell yes, you're absolutely correct. Creshosk corrected me on the Fighting Skills range's definition, but Speed is still incredibly vague right now.
This is where I kind of have to disagree.You say technique, ANYTHING is a technique, as styles were made to counter each other at a given time, there is not a "style" that is specifically made to counter spiderman's, if you see what i mean.
I mean if spiderman took all of these "classes", and got these styles down, would he use them persay. Why would he need them, if what he does, is better than martail arts.
Martial arts is experience. To know when to hit and not to, to dodge instinctively, that is what peter does.
I do understand that he isn't as "trained' as guys like cap though.
You misunderstand me. Don't take the term 'technique' so literal. When Peter throws a punch, he simply swings his arm, trying to smack you in the head with his fist. He punches and kicks like a very flexible brawler; there is no degree of subtlety or intentional finesse here. Spider-Man is a brawler, not a martial artist. No degree of experience by itself makes him one.
What he does isn't really any better than martial arts. Against someone not as strong or as fast as him, perhaps it technically is, but again, pit him against someone like him who is trained to fight and he'll lose.
NOno, if they fought "like peter."Once you have the basic principles of fighting down, and you know where and where not to hit, then you can "wing it", I don't fight with all the "flashiness", but it still gets the job done.
To fight like peter is to fight "like him", most of peters opponents fight with no mercy,and are ruthless. Peter has sooo much more potential, as pointed out by the other thread.
If peter were to let go of his morals and "fight", imagine how much more deadlier he'd be...
I'm still not following your example, but anyway...
Martial arts does not necessarily equate to 'flashiness'. If anything, Spidey is the flashiest of all, simply because he can do things like jump up, bounce off the ceiling, somersault his way downwards, and then kick someone in the face. Which, when thinking about it, is really damn cool.
Peter's potential is great, which is why I say again, I have no idea why he hasn't bothered to get himself trained yet. He's got excellent reflexes and superior coordination, not to mention a certain degree of speed. Why hasn't Cap trained him yet?
Of course he'd be deadlier, but he'd still lose to someone who is just as strong and just as fast, but better trained.
Define effective, I say proificent.You are probably going to say that he has been trained to hit more effectively, etc. Than spiderman.
I say this, to hit some one in a pressure point and subdue them, vs knocking their head right off, I think knocking the head off is more effective, but not as proificient
No, you misunderstand. Say Daredevil has all of Peter's powers. Now Peter has all this fighting experience, but so does Matt. Matt also has his training. If x amount of experience equals x amount of training, then Matt is effectively twice the fighter Peter is.
You're right, though. Matt probably does know how to apply his strength better than Peter does. Were Matt (or to stay on topic, I guess, Batman), given Peter's strength, he would hit harder than Peter himself does.
You have to remember, this isn't a discussion about Peter's ability to fight, but just his skill. All other things equal between himself and other fighters who have been trained, Peter isn't that much of a fighter.
Boxing ears I'm not so sure on, doesn't he have super equilibrium?
Having superhuman equilibrium wouldn't protect him from having his ears boxed. All his equilibrium does is keep him from becoming disoriented when he is on the ceiling, etc. When Spider-Man sits upside-down on a ceiling, for instance, it's just like sitting on the floor for him, whereas it's rather disorienting for the rest of us. It also makes him immune to 'head rushes' (blood won't rush to his head like it does us) and it might make him immune to vertigo. Other than that, it does nothing. It's not really a combat effective power, but a maneuverability one.
Originally posted by Who?-kid
Sigh...Batman has had better training than Spider-Man. Fine. Good for him. But the Batman defenders are forgetting three things:
- Spider-Man has had his "training" on the streets, and was already a famous and successful hero years before Bruce Wayne became Batman.
Can't beat first hand experience. While Bruce Wayne was still studying in fancy schools, Spider-Man was already kicking ass on the street.
- Not only that, but he doesn't need no real training, his powers give him everything he needs (and more). Spider-Man > martial arts. That's a fact, people.
- Spider-Man is also very experienced, something some members seem to forget. He knows how to hit, how to roll with a punch and has complete control over his superhuman powers.
If you're talking about me, sorry, but I'm not even arguing 'Spidey v Batman' anymore. Complain about me being off-topic if you want, but you're acting as if you're trying to explain a simple point to a Bat-fanboy who thinks his training makes him Lord and Master of All He Surveys. Spider-Man physically dwarfs Batman, and in a hand-to-hand fight Bruce could only win through sheer trickery and bit of luck, but that doesn't change the fact that Batman is technically the better fighter.
By the way, no, 'Spider > martial arts' isn't true. If Spidey fought someone with his strength, speed, reflexes, and mobility, but who was also trained to be a fighter, he would lose. Not to mention this argument is inherently flawed, as you're comparing the effectiveness of a person and a personal resource. In a way, your argument is true. Afterall, martial arts can't do anything without a person using them.