Batman vs Spiderman

Originally posted by Whobdamandog
Well seeing as how on the strength scale 4 goes from like 2,000 to 20000 lbs..I'd say that the durability scale is probably similar in its vagueness...

Yes, but can you apply that to fighting skills and whatnot? Also of special note is Marvel's refusal to state in numbers how much, for example, Spider-Man can bench within his profile. I don't know about numbers anymore. I think simply placing a certain character at a 'tier' lets the writers be more flexible, however stupid that may be. I would say that if Marvel really isn't saying they're around each other's durability, Spidey would be the more durable. I just can't think of anything off of the top of my head that he's shrugged off that's so significantly damaging to non-superhumans. Even Aunt May has knocked him cold with a vase. 😄

No not really..I just realized I made a bad guesstimate...human bone density has been equated to be denser than certain types of rock. So I felt it necessary to make an adjustment..I could have stated that he was roughly as dense if not more so dense than that of steel, seeing as how he's demonstrated the ability to dent steel beams and the like..however..I didn't want to sound to fanboyistic..

That's his skeleton, not his muscle density. If Spider-Man stood there and let Batman punch him in the face square on, it'd hurt a lot. Probably won't break anything, but it'd hurt. In places where there is no bone, like the stomach for the most obvious example, it'd hurt quite a bit to be hit there.

I'd say it's accurate to say his skeleton's tensile strength would be as strong as steel, seeing as how he has done that.

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
The gorilla.....now give the martial artist a find deductive reasoning skills and....now because all it can do when the spider sense kicks in is to move to safety.... you can't beat animal instincts.....now who wins

Okay..but you've just added another ability to the martial artist..so now I will have to add another one to the gorilla...the gorilla now has the ability to shoot vines from its body..which are as strong as steel cable.

So who has the better chance of winning this battle?

The Pyschic Gorilla with vine shooting ability or Trained Martial artist with Spear/Deductive reason skills?

This whole MA v Gorilla thing is getting funny.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Why is it unfair? The Gorilla is using its natural abilities in this battle..as will the trained martial artist, Just like Batman and SM in this scenario..

So who has the better chance of winning in these two Scenarios below..

The Gorilla vs the Trained Martial Artist?

The Psychic Gorilla vs the Trained Martial Artist with a spear?

It is unfair....because they are using all that they are and we are just in one place and not using all that we are....

God gave these guys power but gave us brains....how is it fair for one side to use their gift and for the other side not to use theirs (which is creating weapons and stuff)....now tell me how is this fair...

The Gorilla vs. Trianed Martial artist.....Gorilla wins.....
The Gorilla vs. Trained Martial artist (utilizing a weapon)...Martial artist wins.

Psychic Gorilla vs. Trained Martial artist with spear....Psychic Gorilla
Psychic Gorilla vs. Trained Martial artist with spear and good deductive reasoning skills......Martial artist

And one more thing chosing specific spot on my posts to reply on does not exactly do you good...

This whole MA v Gorilla thing is getting funny.

I know what you mean 😆

Originally posted by Wanderer259
Yes, but can you apply that to fighting skills and whatnot?

Learned fighting skills yes..tactical fighting skills..no..

Also of special note is Marvel's refusal to state in numbers how much, for example, Spider-Man can bench within his profile. I don't know about numbers anymore. I think simply placing a certain character at a 'tier' lets the writers be more flexible, however stupid that may be.

True. That's why Marvel initially created this new scale. Rigid guidlines makes it difficult for writers to be creative...

I would say that if Marvel really isn't saying they're around each other's durability, Spidey would be the more durable.

Wouldn't they do the same thing with the strength levels as well? I would think so. But they've left that category pretty vague. We all know that Wolverine can't lift cars and the like..which puts him significantly below SM in strength. I believe the same rationale should be applied to Captain A and SM in the durability departments.

I just can't think of anything off of the top of my head that he's shrugged off that's so significantly damaging to non-superhumans.

...Unpulled blows from CL80-100 characters...Hit with concussive energy electrical/energy blasts.., uhh..and don't forget he does have a healing factor..so yeah I thinks its pretty fair to assume that he's a quite a bit more durable...

Even Aunt May has knocked him cold with a vase. 😄

Do I need to bring up firelord again?...😆

That's his skeleton, not his muscle density. If Spider-Man stood there and let Batman punch him in the face square on, it'd hurt a lot. Probably won't break anything, but it'd hurt.

His muscle structure is probably about as dense..based on his strength..it would have to be..I've alluded to this already. He's actually been wacked on the head with wooden plank..and just stood their as the plank bursted into splinters as it hit his head. Batman's punch might hurt him..but I doubt he'd have enough strength to do any real damage.

In places where there is no bone, like the stomach for the most obvious example, it'd hurt quite a bit to be hit there.

Agreed..but I still don't believe it would be hurt him enough to do any significant damage.

I'd say it's accurate to say his skeleton's tensile strength would be as strong as steel, seeing as how he has done that.

Possibly..maybe even stronger..we'll never know however..but overall..he's a heck of a lot more durable than a peek human..

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
It is unfair....because they are using all that they are and we are just in one place and not using all that we are....

Each combatant is using their natural abilities. That's not unfair.

God gave these guys power but gave us brains....how is it fair for one side to use their gift and for the other side not to use theirs (which is creating weapons and stuff)....now tell me how is this fair...

Well he's not going to have time to create a spear in a random battle. However if he comes into this battle with something that's not part of his natural physical attribut.(ie a gun,spear,etc) Then its only fair that the Gorilla gets an added weapon or ability...

The Gorilla vs. Trianed Martial artist.....Gorilla wins.....
The Gorilla vs. Trained Martial artist (utilizing a weapon)...Martial artist wins.

Psychic Gorilla vs. Trained Martial artist with spear....Psychic Gorilla
Psychic Gorilla vs. Trained Martial artist with spear and good deductive reasoning skills......Martial artist

That must be one hell of a spear!!! 😆 😆

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Okay..but you've just added another ability to the martial artist..so now I will have to add another one to the gorilla...the gorilla now has the ability to shoot vines from its body..which are as strong as steel cable.

So who has the better chance of winning this battle?

The Pyschic Gorilla with vine shooting ability or Trained Martial artist with Spear/Deductive reason skills?

I am not the one adding stuff

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
If a human martial artist spent most of his time mastering different forms of martial arts and then confronts a gorilla the martial artist is going to put a fight...but it is not going to be a fight and besides the gorilla has built in weapons its share size and those big massive K9's

Well if the martial artist finds a sharp metal rod his chances of surviving the gorilla just increased....And when he fights he does not exactly goes head to head..

Or better yet if the martial artist had a spear the gorilla is as good as dead because you are getting the one thing you need against the gorilla distance...it is going to be the martial artist friend in this bout.

you chose to reply to the last paragraph of this post neglecting the first paragraph (you see choosing specific spot on my post to reply does not entirely give you any credit because you start saying that I am adding stuff when I am most definitely not) You are the one who started adding psychic gorrila. 😆

Originally posted by Whobdamandog
Wouldn't they do the same thing with the strength levels as well? I would think so. But they've left that category pretty vague. We all know that Wolverine can't lift cars and the like..which puts him significantly below SM in strength. I believe the same rationale should be applied to Captain A and SM in the durability departments.

But we've been presented with instances in which Wolverine displays superhuman strength, such as lifting around seven full grown men over his head and jumping to heights simply unattainable to humans.

...Unpulled blows from CL80-100 characters...Hit with concussive energy electrical/energy blasts.., uhh..and don't forget he does have a healing factor..so yeah I thinks its pretty fair to assume that he's a quite a bit more durable...

Him being punched by Class 100 characters and 'shrugging it off' is PIS. He could survive that, but he should be down and out for the count.

His 'healing factor' doesn't add to his durability at all; he just doesn't take as long to recover as a normal human does from the same level of bodily damage. Unlike those with true healing factors, Spidey does get sick and he does take relatively lengthy periods of time to heal from severe injury.

Do I need to bring up firelord again?...

Bah. Spidey beats up heralds of Galactus, Wolverine survives nukes, Daredevil can hear a feather hit the ground 100 miles away, and the Hulk is strong enough to rip through space and time and 'move' it. 😄

His muscle structure is probably about as dense..based on his strength..it would have to be..I've alluded to this already. He's actually been wacked on the head with wooden plank..and just stood their as the plank bursted into splinters as it hit his head. Batman's punch might hurt him..but I doubt he'd have enough strength to do any real damage.

That's more of a testament to his skull's density, not his muscular durability. His body shouldn't be too tough for Batman to perform no damage unless he's punching at the head or another similarly 'bony' area.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
His 'healing factor' doesn't add to his durability at all; he just doesn't take as long to recover as a normal human does from the same level of bodily damage. Unlike those with true healing factors, Spidey does get sick and he does take relatively lengthy periods of time to heal from severe injury.

yeah

and in the issue of spidey unlimited where pete lost to the rhino,he got messed up real bad and he even went to the hospital.... he got confined, and the doc adviced him to take some "break-time."

so basing from that, id say petey is probly human in the recovery department.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
This whole MA v Gorilla thing is getting funny.

A adult male gorilla can weigh between 300-600 lbs . . .
Spiderman weighs 165 lbs. . .

And batman has fought gorilla's before, Grodd, Karamak. . .

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Each combatant is using their natural abilities. That's not unfair.

Of course it is unfair...why in gods name did we ever dream of creating weapons....hmmmmm....if things were all so fair....anyways using weapons is also part of our natural ability......because we had the sense to create one or invent one for a specific use.

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
And I did not deviate

Martial arts does not just teach people to be single minded....they teach us to be think thanks on two legs...if a situation calls for the use a weapon go ahead and use it but if you can complete that situation with out using a weapon good for who ever it is....You see said animals like tigers and gorillas already have built in defense and offensive mechanisms....it is entirely on fair for the martial artist to just go at the animal with out any weapons of their own....but now if you give a weapon to the martial artist it is not going to be fair for the animal....because fair for us means a big disadvantage for them.

Besides martial arts also teaches people to use weapons and whobdamandog did not say that the martial artist is going at it with just their bare hands.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Actually it's quite riddiculous and is flawed like the other animal comparisons.

A adult male gorilla can weigh between 300-600 lbs . . .
Spiderman weighs 165 lbs. . .

And batman has fought gorilla's before, Grodd, Karamak. . .

It wasn't batman vs a gorilla either...

It is quite ridiculous to fight a gorilla though, I agree there...

Originally posted by Pointinel
yeah

and in the issue of spidey unlimited where pete lost to the rhino,he got messed up real bad and he even went to the hospital.... he got confined, and the doc adviced him to take some "break-time."

so basing from that, id say petey is probly human in the recovery department.

Have you seen what peter gets hit by?

Someone BROKE their hand trying to hit him...

I'd venture to say about 4-5 times faster than a human, though he cannot set his bones, etc.

Anyways, some stuff i dug up,hope it helps...

"Spidey heals a lot of faster than a normal human, of course not in the same league like Wolverine.

He once had a broken arm and recovered
after one or two days sleep. And that was in a older comic.

When demons attack NY and Spidey gets hard wounded,
he is found by some Bugle reporters and a woman says
that his wounds heal with a incredible speed.

When Spidey gets blind and is brought to a doctor by Daredevil the Doc says that his eyes heal with a great speed.

He also was shot by police, and while the wound was treated, the assistant also mentioned peter's remarkable healing rate."

Originally posted by Wanderer259
[B]But we've been presented with instances in which Wolverine displays superhuman strength, such as lifting around seven full grown men over his head and jumping to heights simply unattainable to humans.

Which would you consider to be the more impressive feat in terms of strength..

Lifting several grown men over ones head, or the ability to hold up a building structure?

Wolverine's top strength has always been alleged to be in the 800 lb - 1000 lb range by Marvel when he has his adamantium skeleton. His strength is stated to be a bit above an average man without it.

As far as the jumping ability goes..I have to wonder why Wolverine doesn't show this jumping ability more when fighting in battles. And I don't recall Marvel ever listing him to be superhumanly agile..

I remember an issue of the Fantastic four, where Wolverine was shown to have to use an elevator, to get to the top of the four freedoms Plaza...where as Spider man, Ghost Rider, and the Hulk were able to make it to the top using their superhuman abilities(jumping, mortercycles, etc) Why didn't Wolverine just jump 3 stories in the air? He could have made it to the top in no time if he had done so.

Same goes for the secret wars battle with the X-men..Couldn't Wolverine just have jumped up to SM's height once he had gotten up from that glancing blow?

Him being punched by Class 100 characters and 'shrugging it off' is PIS. He could survive that, but he should be down and out for the count.

I wouldn't say that he "shrugged it off"...however..he is visibly hurt, dazed and disoriented. The Rhino is a class 80 level character, with a near invulnerable hide. He's taken blows consistently from Rhino, as well as Doc ocks tentacles, Hulk, Venom(Class 25 - 30), Carnage, Titania, and many others in the Superhuman range. Based on this, I think its a safe bet to say that his durability level is quite a bit higher than that of a peek human.

His 'healing factor' doesn't add to his durability at all; he just doesn't take as long to recover as a normal human does from the same level of bodily damage. Unlike those with true healing factors, Spidey does get sick and he does take relatively lengthy periods of time to heal from severe injury.

Bad science again. The faster your body heals an the less suceptible it is to injury, the more durable an individual is. If I hit you, and it takes you a month to recover from the blow, where as it takes me a day...I'd say my body can endure quite a bit more punishment than yours.

Bah. Spidey beats up heralds of Galactus, Wolverine survives nukes, Daredevil can hear a feather hit the ground 100 miles away, and the Hulk is strong enough to rip through space and time and 'move' it. 😄

So how is Wolverine jumping 3 stories in the air, any more plausible than him surviving a nuke?😉

That's more of a testament to his skull's density, not his muscular durability. His body shouldn't be too tough for Batman to perform no damage unless he's punching at the head or another similarly 'bony' area.

Spiderman has gotten up from the charge of a stampeeding "Rhino" to his midsection. Albeit he was definatley the worse for wear, however, he still has managed to survive this and many other Superhuman blows to his body countless times. Batman does not contain enough strength in his body to significantly damage SM, hurt him yes..seriously injure him..no..

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Of course it is unfair...why in gods name did we ever dream of creating weapons....hmmmmm....if things were all so fair....anyways using weapons is also part of our natural ability......because we had the sense to create one or invent one for a specific use.

So by your using rationale..Would this be a fair statement to make?

A trained Martial artist has a reasonable chance of beating the psychic/vine shooting gorilla in battle, if the Martial artist has a weapon and a plan of attack before the battle.

When you are done answering that question..please do the following...

1. Substitute "Batman" in the place of " A/the Trained Martial artist" in the sentence above.

2. Substitute "Spiderman" in the place of "the psychic vine shooting gorilla" in the sentence above.

3. Substitute "prep time" in the place of "a weapon and a plan of attack"

If you do this, you will then get the following sentence.

"Batman" has a reasonable chance of beating "Spiderman" in battle, if "Batman" has "prep time" before the battle.

With those substitutions being made, does the statment above still sound reasonable/fair?

Ok please let this thread die..............Some of us think Spider-man will win, some of us think Batman, Neither has convinced the other side otherwise...........now can we just drop it?

Batman. Spidey is good, but not that good.