Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I analyzed the Sally Jupiter character based on previous information the novel not based on what little information was presented about her in the movie. Sneaky you are not and I still suspect you really thought that about her, lol.
I knew you were going to say that. 🙂
...so I present to you the follow as evidence against what I think is a predictable claim:
"Sally Jupiter had serious self esteem issues which were especially focused on in the novel. "
This means that you acknowledged her self esteem problems in the movie....while adding your plug at the awesomeness of the novel.
"I think I have a good idea of what Moore was going for, and that Snyder didn't really translate that well on screen especially if that is what you got out of the scene."
Now, this is even after I made it quite clear that I read the book. Considering you wrote an entire paragraph on it and I wrote 2 or 3 sentences, of course yours is going to be more detailed. However, no, she didn't think he was a very good person, but she did realize that at that moment that there was regret or sorrow for Edward, in addition to her sorrow for scolding Edward incorrectly when he was in a rare moment of "goodness".
My wife didn't read the novel but that's about what she got out of that scene, as well. She picked up, rather well, the regret (regret in three different ways...which is why I said bunches of emotions.) and shame of Sally.
And here's why claiming that you got that from the novel doesn't quite add up:
"The problem with Watchmen is it was so carefully concentrated on translating the story to the screen almost frame by frame."
Now, you're left wondering why I didn't append to my "sneaky" comment "I know you're going to just claim you got it from the comic." I did. But deleted, realizing that there's a better, sneakier, way to address that.
Here was my logic:
1. Originally, it did not contain a "sneaky" comment.
2. I had typed "Wow! You got all of this from the movie. And this whole time I thought it was emotionally flat. I know you're just going to claim you got it from the comic." I realized that there was a much better way to catch you with an "AHA!" moment.
3. I put in the more smartass comments, hoping that it would convey overconfidence so you would be more likely to claim you got it(the scene's interpretation) from the comic. Also, it was to make you think that I made a hasty conclusion so I could avoid any type of preventative logic by you in case you assumed I already had a back up plan with my deleted comment.
4. I did have a nice string of logic already planned out, as you can see above. I really did catch you. 😄
What does this mean? Why would I do this?
I am illustrating a point.
When someone is trying to force a non-truth (which is not the same as a deliberate lie.), it can usually be discovered. One has to simply manipulate the person into contradicting themselves in order to make the point. Deep down, you did think the movie was good. You've rationalized it into horrid as best as you could and you may eventually even convince yourself that it was bad. But, right now, you've still got doubts.
AHA! 😆
This is what I assume with most of the people watching the film who say it's bad. You all know the movie was kick ass, deep down inside, but you just don't want it to be better in anyway than your comic.
You can't claim that the movie was horrible and claim the comic was so awesome when you yourself said it followed it closely with a frame by frame. There has to be some sort of middle ground. Either the movie was good and the comic was better or the comic was bad and the movie was bad. I'll give you a third option: The movie was excellent until the last 30 minutes. (Because of the massive changes that occurred with the end. I have something bad to admit...I liked the movie version ending better. 😱)
Now, my question is: Why did you want the movie to fail so horribly before watching it? And, it can't be "It was written for comics and would never have done well as a film because of how it was written." That's a massive cop-out and is a large load of B.S. Anything written can be put on screen, better, than in any written format.
Now..on to a better point that you'll probably agree ith: I strongly feel that this movie would have been much better as a miniseries on HBO with a massive budget.
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
And I could have enjoyed a Watchmen movie if they had adapted it where they brought emotion across but they didn't.
In your opinion, what is a good emotional movie?
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
The movie just happened overall in my opinion. It didn't have a fraction of the impact reading the novel had on me. Zack Snyder I think overall just fails at things beyond visuals. He can make things look good but he's not quite so good and making them compelling. I had decent enough hopes for the film actually that at the very least it would get the emotional impact of the ending right but they turned Ozymandias into such a flat stock nobody with that silly German accent that again they missed a key point from the novel about his true nature.
I don't agree with any of your above points. It's strictly opinion, so there's no reason to debate those.
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
The movie just should have never been made.
AHA! The truth LIIIIIVES! lol
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I really did go in with an open mind and not even expecting it to be 100% faithful and not planning to get angry if it wasn't so long as the message was still effectively conveyed. Unfortunately I got almost the opposite. An almost page by page exact retelling of the story where the message and emotion got left out.
Odd contradiction coming from you. I could understand if the acting was horrible, but it wasn't. The art, imo, was better in the movie by far than in the comic. I enjoyed how the characters came to life.
This next part may come as a shock to you and I apologize if this offends you:
I thought the art in the comic was...bland...flat. It wasn't what I wanted it to be. When the movie came alive, it was night and day to the comic. That's not always the case...I'd say that the X-men comics have wonderful art and the Fox movies simplified a lot of the coloration and "business" going on in teach frame. They went for a futuristic minimalist look. (Hooray! We're back on topic!)
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
But thank God Rorschach got decent treatment.
I liked the comedian in both the comic and the movie, better. I wish his character was explored more in the movie. I still don't understand the massive appeal of Rorschach.
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I feel Wolverine will just fail like most Marvel movies do. Honestly their most effective work has been Spiderman 1 and 2 even though I went in skeptical because Toby Maguire looked nothing like Peter Parker to me and the series while problematic in some areas still managed to be engaging and adventurous at least the first two parts if not a little TOO emotional at times. Iron Man I think was probably Marvel's best all around production though. The X-Men series was always a bit too Wolverine focused to being with and went to crap with the third movie. I just don't see where Wolverine is going to redeem it but I could be wrong.
Wow. We agree on all points.
However, I still put the X-men movies in my top 50. Loved them.
I REALLY loved Ironman. It exceeded my expectations.
And, I agree. Toby needed to be taller and built like a male ballet dancer. (Thin, tall, lean, and muscular.)
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
I'm just predicting it won't be great and like I said from what I have heard about the workprint, it's not. But maybe they'll do something with it in post.
I'm predicting that it will be effing awesome, but will disappointed for lack of wolverine being violent, especially at his wakening.
I think I understand where you are coming from on "The Watchmen" better.
I am a visual and audio person. I need half way decent character development with kick ass audio visuals and the film is great. In Watcmen, I greatly think that the movie had character development out the wazoo...more than I thought could be done from the comic to the big screen. Because visuals exceeded anything I could have imagined based on the bland comic, I was taken aback. I was very pleased with all the character development they were able to incorporate into the film and was shocked that they got so much in...so this is where we diverge on opinion, I suppose.
Since HEARING and SEEING what happened rather than reading and looking at a picture is much better, imo, than just reading, I will always think a halfway decent adaptation is better. I don't like to read too me unless it is a good story. Since I'm more of a film person, myself (I like to write things), I can see now that I have biases of my own that doom my objectivity.
If I were to remake the movie, I would do much of it the very same way. I would alter the ending, and eliminate and add a few scenes that were there, relative to the comic. However, on the whole, I think they imagined it for the big screen better than I could have myself.
On another note, I'm really glad we've gotten to talk on the boards. You're really cool! I wish we would have debated or talked about things sooner. What makes you even more ridiculously awesome is you're super sexy too! 😂