Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?

Originally posted by acoates22
How do you define Homosexual? As someone who engages in sexual activity with some one of their own sex exclusively? Does that have to involve anything else though? Should the term Homosexual be extended only to those who have no choice or those that do. This probaly depends on whether genetic presdisposition to homosexuality is possible. There are those im sure who have relations with those of the same sex due to environment - the mind is shaped by experiences from birth. However, there is still research ongoing as to whether genetic predisposition occurs. The trouble everyone has when it comes down to predisposition is why on earth would such a thing occur when it does not help the Human Race? Simple. Because like it or not if it is a genetic predisposition it means it is an abnormality - a mistake. Something not meant to be, a genetic defect when looking at it from the point of view of the species as a whole. Due to the outstanding propagation of our species however, this is not an issue. Instead of being a "mistake" its classification changes into a "difference", which i think is fine and groovy and should be that way. My point is many people dont like to think about it as genetic because it somehow means that it is a defect. It is only so depending on the circumstances. Of course this only true in itself if the genetic theory is proved correct. Whatever the outcome i dont think it matters. From a biblical perspective, homosexuality is condemmned, but by St. Paul who was a man with his own failings as a human. He also preached about women being silent in church and shutting up and doing as they're told, and these messages are hardly touted in public by the right winged super conservative christians. Life is such that it is not important that every single member of our species is hetrosexual that reproduces and even if it was and whether it is a choice or not people have a right to be who they are and that includes being gay. We are human and we have made rights for ourselves and they need to be respected.

MHO

Peace
Why the hell do i always submit an essay? hehe

Cheers.....

homosexuality is a Choice... As men choose to adore and love women... it could be their choice to check out a guy.... same goes for women... It's definetly not Genetic though... no one is born wanting to be gay.... That's like saying that your'e born a wanting to be a murder or a lawyer...this is my opinion on this thread....

"how'd being homosexual get to egypt? lol"

You've seen those hats they wore......come on now. Haha.

-AC

homosexuality is a Choice... As men choose to adore and love women... it could be their choice to check out a guy.... same goes for women... It's definetly not Genetic though... no one is born wanting to be gay.... That's like saying that your'e born a wanting to be a murder or a lawyer...this is my opinion on this thread....

Look. Douchebag. (This is me not being nice.) We've been over this. How did you choose to become a heterosexual? And, sure, no one is born WANTING to be gay, but some people are born homosexual. There's no "buts" about it. Did you not read my post several pages back explaining this? Could you make yourself attracted to another male? No. There is a difference between BEING a homosexual and having HOMOSEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Look. Douchebag. (This is me not being nice.) We've been over this. How did you choose to become a heterosexual? And, sure, no one is born WANTING to be gay, but some people are born homosexual. There's no "buts" about it. Did you not read my post several pages back explaining this? Could you make yourself attracted to another male? No. There is a difference between BEING a homosexual and having HOMOSEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

Woa man, chill out. That was only his opinion on the subject!!!!

I admit, u have confused me a little with ur views on Chrisitanity/homosexuality. Maybe im having a blonde day or something 😉 which is most likely, considering its me . . . . . . . . but am i right in saying that you dont really agree with it but u also consider it not a matter of choice? 😕 does that work? Ok, yep, ive confused myself. Maybe i'll go through and read all your posts over again. . . . . 😛

"how'd being homosexual get to egypt? lol"

You've seen those hats they wore......come on now. Haha.

lol 🙄

well psychology surely is the most underdeveloped field of science, but I heard that the amount of harmone levels you have in the fetal stage may determine your mannerisms. (in my psychology book (college course)) It says that they've injected testosterone (or male harmones, whichever you wanna call it) into the fetal brain mass of a female sheep, and that later in life that sheep assumed the male mounting position upon sexual arousal.

Lots of chatter more along the lines of "sin" than of genetic factors- but my babble will incorporate both!

Well, someone early in this thread mentioned "hermaphroditic" as being the only example of genetically influenced "homosexuality." Oh, so the intersexed are homosexual, eh? Hermaphrodite is a useless term with many associated inaccuracies- it's essentially a slur.
However, I do think intersexuality has bearing on homosexuality- it does suggest something about God's intentions regarding human sexual expression.
For example- a scenario in which an XY fetus has an inherited condition of androgen insensitivity syndrome. So we have testes, but the development of external female genetalia. The child is born, declared a girl, and raised as one. She is a perfect girl, externally, but any internal exam would reveal that she is lacking certain components of a functional female reproductive system. Her testes produce estrogen, naturally, so she does develop some female secondary sex charactoristics at puberty, but is amenorrheic. Investigation reveals the truth and the testes are removed to forestall cancer.
At this point, she has identified as a female all her life, and continues to do so. However, with the advent of puberty, she experiences attraction to other women...AND to "other" men. Is it lesbianism if she partners with a woman? Is it homosexuality if she partners with a man? Is biology not relevent at all? Genetically, she is male, in fact, structurally she had, until recently, testicles.
What does God intend this person for? Which choice is sinful, and where in the Bible is HER guidance? Are you so certain now that the Bible contains God's only and complete message regarding the putative sinfulness of homosexuality? Some cultures considered the intersexed ideal spiritual leaders...
I think the Bible largely reflects the social mores of its time, when read in a literal sense.
So, look to nature to hear more on homosexuality. Look at the intersexed, and ridiculous as you may find it, look to the animals. You don't think perhaps God is expressing anything through them?
Bonobos, for example- their sexual interaction is most often not reproductively oriented or cross-gender. It is, rather, an efficient way to promote social bonding and conflict resolution without violence. So how concerned, really, is God with matching things up two by two, male to female, as the exclusive paradigm of the "natural" order?
Bear in mind, that the presence of older, childless females in primitive human societies was a survival factor for offspring in the extended family. It follows that childless aunts and uncles would also have conferred survival advantages to their siblings' children. These children would have survived in greater numbers than children in family groups without the presense of childless aunts and uncles...the children would have carried genes for the propagation of homosexuality, and may have enjoyed the presence of non-reproductive siblings that would assist them in raising their offspring. It's, yes, PART of the natural order.

Originally posted by The Omega
Ytaker> “You're still supposed to use your English skill. If you have a mind, try and adapt to the sentence.”
Tell me, then, how was I supposed to GUESS, that when you used unnatural it meant "deviating from a social norm" rather than a violation of a natural law??

Riiiight! So because ONE book claims all people on Earth (aside from Noah & co. were evil), it’s okay to kill them? How were American Indians supposed to know they were violating God’s laws, as they’d never heard about him?
Hm, so it’s okay for God to use Eugenics and not… others?
And all those who drowned went STRAIGHT to Hell?? Men, women, children, unborn babies?

”God doesn't do that to people. It offers future problems if you just teleport people around, in that the Egyptians would never forget.”
Well, God’s supposedly God. He can just make the Egyptians forget – right? No? Then why didn’t God just make Pharaoh a gentle man, instead of first pissing him off royally?

So you read Genesis. How do you know that’s what happened back then? How can you ”see” what God’s thinking

”Thank you for taking the IQ Test at www.IQTest.com.”
You call THAT an IQ-test? Where’s the spatial questions? And I have to purchase my ”Complete Personal Intelligence Profile”? 😄

THIS is an IQ-test: http://www.mensa.org/workout.php

He can decide whether they are all evil, being God. He is the ultimate factor. There is no comparison to a society that evil, throughout history. It prevented those baby's children from going to hell as well. You have a chance after that. If God exists, he could decide, If he didn't he didn't, he couldn't do a thing

He cannot alter the freewill of people without screwing up the world. It would be equivalent to in an AIDs V Nanobots test, analysing the genetic structure of the AIDs with a supercomputer, and sending it to a Nanobot. It would make it invalid. If he fiddles once, the world collapses. It isn't worth it.

By what the words say. They record the flow of God's mind. I can "see" the ink on the pages, twisted into weird things called "letters"

“Your score was 27 out of 30. That is an excellent score, you would have a very strong chance of passing the Mensa test and joining Mensa.

Please note that the Mensa Workout is NOT the official Mensa test, and your score will not qualify or disqualify you for membership.”

I spelt Parachute wrong! Plus I got the stick one wrong (I didn’t see any pattern but the stick) and I didn’t even know what banalities means. It is no trivial matter.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Pharoah was willing to let the Israelites go free. It was God who forced Pharoah to keep the Israelites in slavery.

Why should Pharoah be blamed for doing what God made him do? Why should the Egyptian people be punished for what God was going to do anyway?

A. The Lord made demands upon Pharaoh which went against the monarch’s selfish interests, hence, in that sense God hardened his heart.

B. The king resisted the divine command and hardened his own heart.

C. The Egyptian magicians, attempting to reproduce Moses’ miracles, added to Pharaoh’s confusion.

Was that the bit you were talking about?

I admit, u have confused me a little with ur views on Chrisitanity/homosexuality. Maybe im having a blonde day or something which is most likely, considering its me . . . . . . . . but am i right in saying that you dont really agree with it but u also consider it not a matter of choice? does that work? Ok, yep, ive confused myself. Maybe i'll go through and read all your posts over again. . . . .

You see Christians as blaming anything and everything on human nature. 'Tis not true, I say. I USED to think that homosexuality is a choice. However, after actually learning about it from a psychologist's standpoint, I realize it is not. Several of my friends would discount this immediately, saying with disgust that, "It's a choice." Even if I showed them the evidence, they would still say that it was a choice.

It's a shame, really. Their potential is limited by their restricted views. (Now, someone chime in with me being a hypocrite...just waiting for it...) It's like this giant pile of horseshit I was force-fed one time at youth group: all secular music is evil because it takes one's focus off of God.

That, my friends, is what I call stupidity. Of course, so is this:

"Scientists suck because they believe in evolution."

Oy. That really hurt my head. One of the individuals absolutely refuses to accept the theory that snakes used to have legs (hip spurs, anyone?). This is why I try to avoid conflict with those with which I have direct contact. It will either degenerate into an ignorance fest, a liberal-bashing fest, or, as in the case of my government class with the teacher who said he would remain neutral on any discussed issues, an anti-conservative fest.

Isnt genetics what drives us as a species? its most likely written into our subconscious long before we exit the womb what we'll prefer

and lol @ the respect/suck list

Originally posted by FeceMan
You see Christians as blaming anything and everything on human nature. 'Tis not true, I say. I USED to think that homosexuality is a choice. However, after actually learning about it from a psychologist's standpoint, I realize it is not. Several of my friends would discount this immediately, saying with disgust that, "It's a choice." Even if I showed them the evidence, they would still say that it was a choice.

Humans react to the world. Some of it's freewill. Being Homosexual can be a choice. For most it isn't, but a few can choose after rejecting it before. Your genetics just sets your limits. Not how you act within them. What with you being the most advanced thing in the universe, your limits are quite wide.

Originally posted by Ytaker
A. The Lord made demands upon Pharaoh which went against the monarch’s selfish interests, hence, in that sense God hardened his heart.

B. The king resisted the divine command and hardened his own heart.

C. The Egyptian magicians, attempting to reproduce Moses’ miracles, added to Pharaoh’s confusion.

Was that the bit you were talking about?

The above inferences are not reflective of the passage. It clearly states that Pharoah was willing to let the Israelites go free until God hardened the heart of Pharoah. This means that Pharoah was being punished for what God made him do.

Humans react to the world. Some of it's freewill. Being Homosexual can be a choice. For most it isn't, but a few can choose after rejecting it before. Your genetics just sets your limits. Not how you act within them. What with you being the most advanced thing in the universe, your limits are quite wide.

I disagree. Homosexual therapy has a success rate of 17% on homosexual men (the rate is significantly higher on women, but women are also more 'fluid' in their sexuality). Of all the homosexual men who want to be heterosexual--who want it SO badly they go to therapy--only 17% actually become heterosexual.

Like I said, this says (to me) that homosexuality is genetically predisposed.

BUT, as people often seem to miss no matter how many times I state it, having homosexual intercourse is a choice.

The above inferences are not reflective of the passage. It clearly states that Pharoah was willing to let the Israelites go free until God hardened the heart of Pharoah. This means that Pharoah was being punished for what God made him do.

If by "willing to let the Israelites go", you mean "relinquish his control over the Israelites"...

And, as was already stated, he had already enslaved the Israelites. Therefore, he was already deserving of punisment.

Originally posted by FeceMan
If by "willing to let the Israelites go", you mean "relinquish his control over the Israelites"...

And, as was already stated, he had already enslaved the Israelites. Therefore, he was already deserving of punisment.

Pharoah reaped what he sowed. But what about all the people who reaped what they did not sow? What about Abdul the farmer who woke up with frogs on his face, his cattle dead from anthrax, his wife ****ed up with sores, his only child dead, all because of a leader he didn't even get to vote for?

I love Oz.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I disagree. Homosexual therapy has a success rate of 17% on homosexual men (the rate is significantly higher on women, but women are also more 'fluid' in their sexuality). Of all the homosexual men who want to be heterosexual--who want it SO badly they go to therapy--only 17% actually become heterosexual.

Like I said, this says (to me) that homosexuality is genetically predisposed.

BUT, as people often seem to miss no matter how many times I state it, having homosexual intercourse is a choice.

On mile high didn't they say that the only way that you could prove your sexuality was by loving someone? Obviously a male who loved a male would be homosexual, regardless of how many women they slept with. You follow that logic?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Pharoah reaped what he sowed. But what about all the people who reaped what they did not sow? What about Abdul the farmer who woke up with frogs on his face, his cattle dead from anthrax, his wife ****ed up with sores, his only child dead, all because of a leader he didn't even get to vote for?

Should have rebelled. Shouldn't have thrown Sarah the Israelite girl in the privy for collapsing midway through the harvest, after working three double shifts because the Pharaoh had ordered all boys to be killed. If you join a cause, and reap the benefits, you are to blame for the affects.