Homosexuality: Chosen or Genetic?

Now, there were some Germans who hid/helped Jews.
Every first-born child. Every house-hold.

*Shrugs.* All of Germany suffered under Hitler's reign, so it was with Pharaoh. It's rather harsh (I often think of God as a bit harsh when reading the Bible), as when that fellow touched the Ark to steady it and promptly died.

Also, how can you make the decision to not take literally the condemnation of women speaking in church, but still promote the idea that the rest of the bible must be taken literally?

This I see as more of a cultural issue at the time. Women had little in the way of rights and were to be subservient to their husbands. Therefore, they were to remain as "good little wives" (how terribly chauvanistic), submitting to their husbands as a symbolic act of submitting to the will of God. Or somesuch. Nowadays, women DO are equal to men, so this restraint is nullified. I think of it this way--we live in a screwed up world. The more people spreading the Gospel (like a contagious disease), the better.

Actually, this brings me to a point about slavery. Slavery is not condoned by the Bible. It just gives information on how slaves were to be treated--slaves were, as with the women thing, a part of life back then. Also, slavery was often like indentured servitude instead of the former slavery practices in America. I believe that the Israelites are told to release their servants after seven years of servitude. (Wow, lots of ess-sounds.)

I'm not bringing that up to imply that you're hypocritical- I just wanted to point out that it's a discrepancy, which you probably haven't yet noticed/identified in your own thinking.

Oy! I know, I know, the Old Testament is FILLED with discrepancies. Even the story of creation is slightly different after the "seven days" part. Then Noah is to bring two of every animal, but later the Bible says he is to bring seven of every clean animal and two of every unclean...*sighs*. I suppose it's one of those things one must take with a grain of salt...like Lot's wife.

Mmm, we'd be having venison if she stood out in the forest.

Don't smite me!

Why on earth would I smite you? To question these things is perfectly acceptable; in fact, I would encourage it! There are very few people I would actually smite if I had the power...although I wouldn't mind unleashing my fury onto NAMBLA.

They'll be smited. Don't worry yourself about them. A higher power (Andrew Vachss) is onto them.
Support the good works of Vachss. Spread the word of Vachss. Visit the Zero. Wesley is the bomb- and we built him, and we set him off...

chosen

its not a choice, its not genetic either....just cause your dad, grandfather, great grandfather is gay or your mom is a lesbian doesn't mean your going to be gay to. Or just because people grow up with the same sex parents or an abusive father that rapes his son... doesn't mean your gonna be gay/lesbo too. people are just born with it no matter who u are, what race, what house you grew up in. Also there is no such thing as bisexual.....your either gay or straight, if u think u are bisexual your just bi-curious.

I'm looking at homosexuality completly different now.... Choice or Genetics doesn't really matter or determine wheather a person is Gay or not.... What determines it in my opinion is that what a person feels towards and other person, regardless of male or female... the determining factor is that if me and this guy bob were close and we felt for one another then shouldn't it be alright to tell eachother how we feel. i think no one can really choose to be gay but i also believe that it isn't genetics as well..I'm not gay it's just that i've been reading some of the post and its making alot more sense to me.... I don't think bush should stop gay marriages... He's basing that law on his religious beliefs and a country nor a law should be ran or passed by religion. This is supposed to be the land of freedom... and restricting people not to marry the person they care most for isn't freedom.....And yes I've been in love.... 😉

What determines it in my opinion is that what a person feels towards and other person, regardless of male or female...

Originally posted by AdventChild
I'm looking at homosexuality completly different now.... Choice or Genetics doesn't really matter or determine wheather a person is Gay or not.... What determines it in my opinion is that what a person feels towards and other person, regardless of male or female... the determining factor is that if me and this guy bob were close and we felt for one another then shouldn't it be alright to tell eachother how we feel. i think no one can really choose to be gay but i also believe that it isn't genetics as well..I'm not gay it's just that i've been reading some of the post and its making alot more sense to me.... I don't think bush should stop gay marriages... He's basing that law on his religious beliefs and a country nor a law should be ran or passed by religion. This is supposed to be the land of freedom... and restricting people not to marry the person they care most for isn't freedom.....And yes I've been in love.... 😉

😎

Originally posted by AdventChild
I'm looking at homosexuality completly different now.... Choice or Genetics doesn't really matter or determine wheather a person is Gay or not.... What determines it in my opinion is that what a person feels towards and other person, regardless of male or female... the determining factor is that if me and this guy bob were close and we felt for one another then shouldn't it be alright to tell eachother how we feel. i think no one can really choose to be gay but i also believe that it isn't genetics as well..I'm not gay it's just that i've been reading some of the post and its making alot more sense to me.... I don't think bush should stop gay marriages... He's basing that law on his religious beliefs and a country nor a law should be ran or passed by religion. This is supposed to be the land of freedom... and restricting people not to marry the person they care most for isn't freedom.....And yes I've been in love.... 😉

👆 😎

its not a choice, its not genetic either....just cause your dad, grandfather, great grandfather is gay or your mom is a lesbian doesn't mean your going to be gay to. Or just because people grow up with the same sex parents or an abusive father that rapes his son... doesn't mean your gonna be gay/lesbo too. people are just born with it no matter who u are, what race, what house you grew up in. Also there is no such thing as bisexual.....your either gay or straight, if u think u are bisexual your just bi-curious.

Yes, it is genetics. We've been over this. You're right about the part about environment not influencing sexuality (nearly as much). And yes, bisexuality DOES exist. There is a minority (a very, very, very, very slim minority) that is bisexual. Of course, there are women, who, as I've stated numerous times already, have a greater deal of fluidity in their sexuality--this is why homosexual therapy has a 54% success rate for them.

Originally posted by Ulrich Rulez
...I have a question:

What's the difference between "TransGendered" (sp) and "Homosexuality"?

(If somebody has already asked this, tell me)

ho·mo·sex·u·al adj. One who has an enduring emotional, physical, and psychological attraction to members of the same sex.

trans·gen·dered adj. One who considers him or herself to be a member of the opposite sex.

Feceman> "Erm...Pharaoh had already acted by enslaving the Israelites."
Well, tell me: Should God kill the first-borns of all those who've had slaves?

Ytaker> Are you running out of arguments? Why on Earth do you c&p a point I made several pages ago, and then go on to claim I copy you? Do you have a point?
Being able to "work" with infinity in math and physics is not a feeling.

"The suggestion is that God predicted that asking the Pharaoh for the release would make him harden his heart."

Exodus: 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Note who does WHAT here. So there is no prediction as you claim. Exodus 4:21, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:4, 14:8. God hardens the Pharaohs heart. God messes royally with free will!

"Not sure. I cannot find the original. I'll get back to you on that."
Say what? What are you talking about? Am I again supposed to guess what you mean and what part of my post you're answering?

"If God did an action that broke the common laws, then they wouldn't be a constant."
So God making a flood is not breaking "common laws"???

"They worshiped him as God-King, and freely gave their labour. They reaped the benefits of such worship. They might not have choosen him, but they supported him on every step. They joined his cause. After he was elected."
😆
Okay, THAT does it. YOU go read some stuff about ancient Egypt and when you have done that, let me know. I'll not discuss with someone so ignorant about the ways of the old world... Geeeh!

All> Well, this thread has done some good. Two people have by now changed their view on homosexuality towards tolerance.
🙂

Well, tell me: Should God kill the first-borns of all those who've had slaves?

It's not JUST the slave issue, it's the fact that the Egyptians enslaved God's chosen people.

"They worshiped him as God-King, and freely gave their labour. They reaped the benefits of such worship. They might not have choosen him, but they supported him on every step. They joined his cause. After he was elected."

FeceMan is confused--whom are you quoting? Is it something that Ytaker said earlier that I missed or what?

Originally posted by FeceMan
Aaah, the word 'repent'. This I hate for it brings out the witch-burning Christian stereotype 🙂. Anyhow, the thing to do would be to stop engaging in homosexual relationships (assuming the individual is) and...*shudders*...yes, 'repent'. Ugh. Has anyone read The Hunchback of Notre Dame? When I think repent, I think of the corrupt priest 🙂.

hmmm i take it that was a humorous post 🙂 repent means to turn 180degrees back to God.

hey i was just wondering, are u a Christian? Or do you hold any Chrisitan beliefs? Curious . . . . .

I think it depends more on the social factors around the person when they are growing up. If a boy hangs out too much with girls when he's growing up, he tends to be more effeminate....and so on

hey i was just wondering, are u a Christian? Or do you hold any Chrisitan beliefs? Curious . . . . .

Yes.

I think it depends more on the social factors around the person when they are growing up. If a boy hangs out too much with girls when he's growing up, he tends to be more effeminate....and so on

Effeminate behavior does not equal homosexuality.

Feceman> Why did God allow his chosen people to be enslaved in the first place then?

(Please note after the first question, I speak to Ytaker, obvious from the “Ytaker>, and who's hopefully busy reading about how Pharaohs were NOT elected).

Originally posted by The Omega
Feceman> "Erm...Pharaoh had already acted by enslaving the Israelites."
Well, tell me: Should God kill the first-borns of all those who've had slaves?

Ytaker> Are you running out of arguments? Why on Earth do you c&p a point I made several pages ago, and then go on to claim I copy you? Do you have a point?
Being able to "work" with infinity in math and physics is not a feeling.

"The suggestion is that God predicted that asking the Pharaoh for the release would make him harden his heart."

Exodus: 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Note who does WHAT here. So there is no prediction as you claim. Exodus 4:21, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:4, 14:8. God hardens the Pharaohs heart. God messes royally with free will!

"Not sure. I cannot find the original. I'll get back to you on that."
Say what? What are you talking about? Am I again supposed to guess what you mean and what part of my post you're answering?

"If God did an action that broke the common laws, then they wouldn't be a constant."
So God making a flood is not breaking "common laws"???

"They worshiped him as God-King, and freely gave their labour. They reaped the benefits of such worship. They might not have choosen him, but they supported him on every step. They joined his cause. After he was elected."
😆
Okay, THAT does it. YOU go read some stuff about ancient Egypt and when you have done that, let me know. I'll not discuss with someone so ignorant about the ways of the old world... Geeeh!

All> Well, this thread has done some good. Two people have by now changed their view on homosexuality towards tolerance.
🙂

If that's the only way to free people without changing a constant. Let me give you an example of a constant miracle, and an... inconstant miracle.
If you rearranged the atoms of a piece of iron to form a clump of nitrogen, then that would be an ability that you can do, if you can control stuff at the molecular level. However, you cannot turn a clump of nitrogen at 40 degrees centigrade into a liquid without cooling it down or compressing it first. Floods are easy if you can control the weather. Changing freewill requires the removal of Love first.

I was searching for the context for the gay biological/ social law unnatural quote thingy. I just saw something stupid, me saying that you couldn't rely on your feelings to tell you something is wrong (like the firstborn thing) and comparing it to understanding infinity, I pointed out that you could put symbols in like the sideways eight, to bind it into an encasing and you saying that you could, with things like pi. It was curious. Knowing you, there will be a pathetic riposte, were you attempt to make fun of me, without actually saying anything of value. Like...

Your thing on Egyptians. I say that they received the work of slaves, and didn't refuse. You come out with something about that being wrong. Explain, as if you know something I don't, by definition, I cannot find it as I don't know exactly what you want me to know.

Think of the hardening from this angle then.

Then a new king, who did not know about Joseph, came to power in Egypt. 9 "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become much too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country."
11 So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labour, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 12 But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites 13 and worked them ruthlessly. 14 They made their lives bitter with hard labour in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their hard labour the Egyptians used them ruthlessly.

Does that look like a man who's going to set free his property just because some wild-eyed guy from the desert says that his God wants his people to move on? He was hard hearted, and an obstinate bastard. God just helped him evolve what he had by doing miracles. It’s like me saying I made you harden your heart to my words by saying I was a Christian. You did the hardening, but in the obscure language that I originally speak (say... Hebrew?), one says the phrase like I did, and my English isn't grammatically perfect.
🙂

Originally posted by The Omega
Feceman> Why did God allow his chosen people to be enslaved in the first place then?

(Please note after the first question, I speak to Ytaker, obvious from the “Ytaker>, and who's hopefully busy reading about how Pharaohs were NOT elected).

They asked him for help, and he gave it. He only helps if you want him to. Free will again.

They were enthroned... Look, they sided with the current Pharaoh. They were elected by birth. Then the commoners worshiped them, and gave them their whole support. I think of any head honcho who's in power as being elected, as there normally is some kind of choosing, often involving knifes, younger brothers, mothers and the like.

Ok, i'm no historian but could some one please explain to me what's goin on about pharohs and ancient eygpt and it's relevence to this thread?

Adventchild> Beats me. I think it deals with “unnatural”, “natural” and taking stuff in the Bible literally.

Ytaker> You can ramble as much as you like about constants. Fact of the matter is, you said God may not mess with people’s free will, and yet he did. He hardened the Pharaohs heart against Moses.
SO – God messed royally with free will. Instead of just making the Pharaoh all nice and cooperative, God elected to harden his heart – we know the end-result. The blood-thirsty slaughter of all the first-borns of Egypt.
WHO – by the way did NOT elect the Pharaoh. Your “he was elected by birth” is plain nonsense. For some-one claiming to be a genius, you’re lacking in basic argumentation…

We view slavery as wrong today, yes. Back in those days it was okay. The Israelis had slaves, too.
Oh, and I want you to see
1) The Egyptians didn’t ELECT their Pharaoh.
2) Your every-day Egyptian had no say in whether or not the Israelis were slaves.
3) God was a blood-thirsty killer, when he killed all the first-borns. If he could harden Pharaoh’s heart he could just as well have made him agreeable.