Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats a goddamn low showing for Cap. Cap fought off a beserk Wolverine how the **** is a starving and sleep deprived going to beat Cap via skill when Cap is superior via skill?The writer was stroking Wolverine bigtime.
Actually, my point was Wolverine was at least Caps equal in skill. If you disagree that's fine. You would basically be saying the earth is flat, but hey everyone's entitled to an opinion no matter how inaccurate it may be.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Actually, my point was Wolverine was at least Caps equal in skill. If you disagree that's fine. You would basically be saying the earth is flat, but hey everyone's entitled to an opinion no matter how inaccurate it may be.
Ok since you wanna be a smartass prove hes equal to Cap in skill.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok since you wanna be a smartass prove hes equal to Cap in skill.
That's easy. His training is FAR superior. What's Cap's training Judo and some American Boxing right? lol - Wolverine was trained by arguably the best martial artist marvel has ever seen. We are talking about someone who had mastered 12 styles and even invented his own - Ogun Ryu. Okay, now this guy was basically a demon in human form. He could survive being stabbed right through the chest, and when he finally died, his soul was able to possess other people. Heck, he was so powerful, Logan even wondered if he was a demi-god. Anyway, Wolverine trained with this guy for a lifetime, and even after all that this guy - Ogun was his name - was STILL faster and BETTER than him the first time they fought yet Wolverine defeated him by going berserk. This has to be one of Wolverine's greatest feats because it showed that even though he was out-matched in skill and speed he could still win by going berserk. It showed that a berserk Wolverine was a real threat as have other comics.
Anyway, when they were fighting Ogun commented on how good Wolverine had become despite the fact that he was still the master and Logan was still the student. The writers at marvel get it wrong when they claim he learned h2h from the government - the truth is he learned all of his fighting techniques from Ogun. There was nothing the gov could have taught him that he didn't already know ten times better.
Also, when him and Cap were fighting in WWII, Logan had to help Cap fight ninjas who was struggling against them while Logan was using some pipes and beating up Ninjas without getting hit. Now mind you, this was before Cap had reached his full potential but it shows that at that time, Wolverine was better than Cap.
Now, I would say they are pretty even considering what Cap became. Despite his limited knowledge of martial arts he is a very GOOD fighter - one of Marvels finest but he does not have nearly the knowledge that Logan does of Eastern styles of martial arts that much is clear. I guess you could say that Logan knows more about pressure points and Cap knows more grappling and holds but overall, they would match up pretty evenly. You have to understand, I'm also giving Cap the benefit of the doubt here as he clearly has had WAY less training than Wolverine.
That being said just because Cap has less training doesn't make him a worse fighter. You only need to master one or two styles to become an excellent fighter and Cap has maximized the training he does have to become so..however, this does not change the fact that Wolverine has been established as one of Marvels best fighters along side Captain America. His superior and LONGER training would make him at least Caps equal. And that's being generous to Cap considering.
What is ultimately boils down to? These are two VERY different fighters with completely different styles. The fact is, however, that Wolverine possesses skills that Cap simply does not. He has way more knowledge of pressure points and of paralyzing/killing moves. Cap is limited to throws, holds, and boxing punches. He does kick soewhat but he, as stated above, he has no real knowledge of Easter styles. On the flip side, he has knowledge of grapling that Wolverine would not possess. This makes the two characters equal, yet very different. You can't really compare the two since they have different skill sets. To say one is less skilled isn't really giving the character the respect they deserve
Oh, and I'm strictly a Wolverine fan, but I believe in giving Cap the full respect he deserves.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
That's easy. His training is FAR superior. What's Cap's training Judo and some American Boxing right? lol
I knew you didnt know much about Cap.
That was in WW2 and he was talking in past tense.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
- Wolverine was trained by arguably the best martial artist marvel has ever seen. We are talking about someone who had mastered 12 styles and even invented his own - Ogun Ryu. Okay, now this guy was basically a demon in human form. He could survive being stabbed right through the chest, and when he finally died, his soul was able to possess other people. Heck, he was so powerful, Logan even wondered if he was a demi-god. Anyway, Wolverine trained with this guy for a lifetime, and even after all that this guy - Ogun was his name - was STILL faster and BETTER than him the first time they fought yet Wolverine defeated him by going berserk. This has to be one of Wolverine's greatest feats because it showed that even though he was out-matched in skill and speed he could still win by going berserk. It showed that a berserk Wolverine was a real threat as have other comics.Anyway, when they were fighting Ogun commented on how good Wolverine had become despite the fact that he was still the master and Logan was still the student. The writers at marvel get it wrong when they claim he learned h2h from the government - the truth is he learned all of his fighting techniques from Ogun. There was nothing the gov could have taught him that he didn't already know ten times better.
In the case of Wolverine this means nothing because hes been humiliated by fighters with alot less experience.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Also, when him and Cap were fighting in WWII, Logan had to help Cap fight ninjas who was struggling against them while Logan was using some pipes and beating up Ninjas without getting hit. Now mind you, this was before Cap had reached his full potential but it shows that at that time, Wolverine was better than Cap.
Yeah you said it yourself at the time Wolverine was better.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Now, I would say they are pretty even considering what Cap became. Despite his limited knowledge of martial arts he is a very GOOD fighter - one of Marvels finest but he does not have nearly the knowledge that Logan does of Eastern styles of martial arts that much is clear. I guess you could say that Logan knows more about pressure points and Cap knows more grappling and holds but overall, they would match up pretty evenly. You have to understand, I'm also giving Cap the benefit of the doubt here as he clearly has had WAY less training than Wolverine.
LOL you know nothing. Cap has Koed Namor with a pressure point and stunned Professor hulk. Has Wolverine been able to beat any class 100 using pressure points not using adamantuim?
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
That being said just because Cap has less training doesn't make him a worse fighter. You only need to master one or two styles to become an excellent fighter and Cap has maximized the training he does have to become so..however, this does not change the fact that Wolverine has been established as one of Marvels best fighters along side Captain America. His superior and LONGER training would make him at least Caps equal. And that's being generous to Cap considering.
Even if he had less training hes still better, he has peak human intelligence and therefore learns more quicky. Furtermore hes been sent back in time 100s of time by Korvac and each time Cap had to prepare himself to beat Korvac so Cap has more experience than Wolverine.
Originally posted by The Real WolvieOh, and I'm strictly a Wolverine fan, but I believe in giving Cap the full respect he deserves.
It would help if you knew something about the character because you obvoulsy dont.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I knew you didnt know much about Cap.That was in WW2 and he was talking in past tense.
This is just a statement Cap is making in the heat of battle. It has no bearing on what actually transpired considering that before America entered the war, he was just a scrawny nerd. He went through rigorous training that lasted like six months or whatever. lol. He then
took some drugs which of course made him the pinnacle of human strength, etc, etc. lol. Yah, some training. Oh, and although he has SOME knowledge of other martial arts, he has only officially mastered two. Compared to Wolverine that's nothing. Wolverine trained for longer than Cap has been thawed out. Or at least close to it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
In the case of Wolverine this means nothing because hes been humiliated by fighters with alot less experience.
Brett Favre threw a lot of interceptions during his career. He has been humiliated many times and has often lost games he should have won. Mike Tyson was knocked out by Buster Dougllous. From this, we can conclude that Tyson never had any skill and Brett Favre could not throw the ball and all of Brett Favre's achievements are for not. Just because Brett Favre won a super bowl does NOT make him a great player. Because Mike Tyson was knocked out by a weaker and less-skilled opponent, it must mean that his previous feats are null and void.
Did what I say just make sense? Honestly, you have extremely poor logic, and I would recommend actually thinking about what you type here. You are basically saying that Wolverine's feats of skill and training don't mean anything because some writers choose to be idiots and don't research the character properly.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah you said it yourself at the time Wolverine was better.
Yes, and now Cap has caught up to Wolverine. Hurray for him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL you know nothing. Cap has Koed Namor with a pressure point and stunned Professor hulk. Has Wolverine been able to beat any class 100 using pressure points not using adamantuim?
And people complain that Wolverine is over-rated. Listen, the idea that Cap could even so much as hurt someone that strong is retarded. He doesn't have the arm strength. But hey, Wolverine healed from a skeleton so as long as it's written in cannon it must be accurate right? Wrong. Comic book fanboy idiot writers make mistakes all the time. Just look at how Batman beat up Hulk. Pure garbage if you ask anyone with an ounce of logic and an I.Q. above 47.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if he had less training hes still better, he has peak human intelligence and therefore learns more quicky. Furtermore hes been sent back in time 100s of time by Korvac and each time Cap had to prepare himself to beat Korvac so Cap has more experience than Wolverine.
Intelligence has nothing to do with how well you learn a style of fighting. Rather, it has to do with whether or not your brain is geared towards kinesthetic movements like Wolverine's is. Also, Cap's training came BEFORE he was given the Super Soldier Serum so I doubt that his ability to pick up new moves is any higher than Logans.
Also, there's something fishy about the scenario you described. You make it seem like Cap needed to learn how to beat Korvac each time he was sent back. This would make all of that experience moot because he forgot it all each time he went back. Maybe if you were more clear, and showed evidence that each time he went back, he actually grew as a fighter then it would be believable, but unless you show an issue where it's clearly stated that each time Cap prepares to fight Korvac he gets better, I'm going to write it off as nothing more than meaningless assumptions. Besides all of this still doesn't change the fact that Logan beat the snot out of Cap the last time they fought. Cap couldn't even win with 2 X-men backing him up. If we used your logic that you attempted with Wolverine, then we would have to say that Cap is FAR weaker than Logan because even though it was a three on one, he was still having difficulty. However, I don't make ridiculous attempts to nullify Caps feats just because he had a bad showing.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It would help if you knew something about the character because you obvoulsy dont.
The exact same thing can be said regarding your knowledge of Wolverine. You basically claimed that somehow all of his training is nullified due to bad writing which makes you look like nothing more than a clueless hater.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
This is just a statement Cap is making in the heat of battle. It has no bearing on what actually transpired considering that before America entered the war, he was just a scrawny nerd. He went through rigorous training that lasted like six months or whatever. lol. He then
took some drugs which of course made him the pinnacle of human strength, etc, etc. lol. Yah, some training. Oh, and although he has SOME knowledge of other martial arts, he has only officially mastered two. Compared to Wolverine that's nothing. Wolverine trained for longer than Cap has been thawed out. Or at least close to it.Brett Favre threw a lot of interceptions during his career. He has been humiliated many times and has often lost games he should have won. Mike Tyson was knocked out by Buster Dougllous. From this, we can conclude that Tyson never had any skill and Brett Favre could not throw the ball and all of Brett Favre's achievements are for not. Just because Brett Favre won a super bowl does NOT make him a great player. Because Mike Tyson was knocked out by a weaker and less-skilled opponent, it must mean that his previous feats are null and void.
Did what I say just make sense? Honestly, you have extremely poor logic, and I would recommend actually thinking about what you type here. You are basically saying that Wolverine's feats of skill and training don't mean anything because some writers choose to be idiots and don't research the character properly.
Yes, and now Cap has caught up to Wolverine. Hurray for him.
And people complain that Wolverine is over-rated. Listen, the idea that Cap could even so much as hurt someone that strong is retarded. He doesn't have the arm strength. But hey, Wolverine healed from a skeleton so as long as it's written in cannon it must be accurate right? Wrong. Comic book fanboy idiot writers make mistakes all the time. Just look at how Batman beat up Hulk. Pure garbage if you ask anyone with an ounce of logic and an I.Q. above 47.
Intelligence has nothing to do with how well you learn a style of fighting. Rather, it has to do with whether or not your brain is geared towards kinesthetic movements like Wolverine's is. Also, Cap's training came BEFORE he was given the Super Soldier Serum so I doubt that his ability to pick up new moves is any higher than Logans.
Also, there's something fishy about the scenario you described. You make it seem like Cap needed to learn how to beat Korvac each time he was sent back. This would make all of that experience moot because he forgot it all each time he went back. Maybe if you were more clear, and showed evidence that each time he went back, he actually grew as a fighter then it would be believable, but unless you show an issue where it's clearly stated that each time Cap prepares to fight Korvac he gets better, I'm going to write it off as nothing more than meaningless assumptions. Besides all of this still doesn't change the fact that Logan beat the snot out of Cap the last time they fought. Cap couldn't even win with 2 X-men backing him up. If we used your logic that you attempted with Wolverine, then we would have to say that Cap is FAR weaker than Logan because even though it was a three on one, he was still having difficulty. However, I don't make ridiculous attempts to nullify Caps feats just because he had a bad showing.The exact same thing can be said regarding your knowledge of Wolverine. You basically claimed that somehow all of his training is nullified due to bad writing which makes you look like nothing more than a clueless hater.
Could somebody please school this guy?
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
lol...can't do it yourself huh.
Yeah I can but its like some of your points are so terrible that its not worth my while even replying to it for example one of your points is that hes offically mastered 2 martial arts.
This is basic stuff I shouldnt have to explain how terrible that point is and even if I did you would probably just waste my time with rabble.
You are also screaming PIS saying that its impossible for Cap to stun the the Hulk. So basically you are arguing against something which Cap has shown the ability to do for decades. Obvoulsy you are the sort of person who will simply reject evidence because it doesnt suit your views. I could give you loads of examples to show that it is within his capability but you will probably just reject it all.
Cap just doesn't have the skill set that Logan does. The same can be said for Logan regarding Cap but the fact remains that Cap just doesn't have the extensive knowledge of ninjitsu and kung fu that Logan does. Anyone who says otherwise is clueless.
Besides, Cap took a drug to make him super strong so that would affect him stunning Prof Hulk and hurting Namor. Has more to do with steroids than skill.
Wolverine knows that against Hulk and Namor he needs to use his claws. Oh, and btw - he knocked out Roughouse with punches who was incredibly strong.
Originally posted by The Real WolvieBesides, Cap took a drug to make him super strong so that would affect him stunning Prof Hulk and hurting Namor. Has more to do with steroids than skill.
See what im mean? Im not even going to argue with that. You're also a hypocrite first of all you stated that its not possible for him to do it know your saying its stereroids. Terrible.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Wolverine knows that against Hulk and Namor he needs to use his claws. Oh, and btw - he knocked out Roughouse with punches who was incredibly strong.
1. He didnt Ko him.
2. Roughouse is not as tough as Namor or Professor Hulk.
3. Cap doesnt have adamantum in his fists.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
See what im mean? Im not even going to argue with that. You're also a hypocrite first of all you stated that its not possible for him to do it know your saying its stereroids. Pathetic.Please explain how I am a hypocrite.
1. He didnt Ko him.
2. Roughouse is not as tough as Namor or Professor Hulk.
3. Cap doesnt have adamantum in his fists.
Yes he did, on several different occassions.
You don't know whether or not Roughhouse is or isn't.
Doesn't need adamantium - has the drug that made him super strong.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Yes he did, on several different occassions.
Actually you maybe be right. Anyway Cap has one shoted people more durable than that.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
You don't know whether or not Roughhouse is or isn't.
Er let me explain something. Professor Hulk was more powerful than Savage Hulk, he also Koed Namor underwater Namor has comparable power to Hulk underwater. Hulk is one of the strongest superheroes you need evidence to prove hes that tough. Anyway one piece of evidence is that a weaker version of the Hulk got up from being implaed by Wolverines claws, Roughouse got dropped just from being stabbed.
Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Doesn't need adamantium - has the drug that made him super strong.
Yeah man whatever.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually you maybe be right. Anyway Cap has one shoted people more durable than that.Er let me explain something. Professor Hulk was more powerful than Savage Hulk, he also Koed Namor underwater Namor has comparable power to Hulk underwater. Hulk is one of the strongest superheroes you need evidence to prove hes that tough. Anyway one piece of evidence is that a weaker version of the Hulk got up from being implaed by Wolverines claws, Roughouse got dropped just from being stabbed.
Yeah man whatever.
Good for Cap one-shotting people. Doesn't mean he's more skilled just means he's super strong. No amount of skill is going to allow you to one-shot the Hulk unless you have some power that gives you super strength.
Wolverine said that the punches he was facing from Roughhouse were shots that only he and the Hulk could take. That means that Wolverine was comparing Roughhouse to some heavy hitters. He was dropped by the claws, but he got up right after. Metal blades slow him down they don't kill him. Besides, Logan then battered him with his fists while berserk and knocked him out. Not saying he would have done the same to Hulk but all that would mean is that he is weaker than Cap. Not less skilled.
When Wolverine was suped-up by Apocalypse, he nearly killed the Hulk and proved to be a match for him. This was because old turtle neck amped him up. Didn't give him more skills though.
Look man, you can't deny that everything Cap has become is because of the drug he took. SS serum gave him his super-strength, agility, speed, etc. Without it, he wouldn't be able to execute any of the moves he learned. He's just be a scrawny nerd again. I mean, he was rejected by the military at first glance. The only reason he's able to compete with guys like Namor, Hulk and Logan is because of the SS serum. He can fight yes, but you can't deny that the SS serum gave him the enhanced reflexes, and as you said yourself enhanced mental capacity to be able to execute kinesthetic movements. Logans HF does the same thing for him. I don't know why you are so offended over these things.
Oh, and for the record, the fight could go either way....