Originally posted by Logan 87
Wait so lets me get this straight, how on earth do they think, Spiderman could beat all 3, when Wolverine alone, could beat him ?
he's crazy..there is no explaination without giving spiderman somesort of handicap i.e. pis/cis, real world logic application that always works in his faovr but against his enemies, the "inconsistancy" argument, and giving him all benefits of the doubt...
Interesting. Anyway you define it, the sense is a form of "pre-cognition." Seeing as how it is not reliant on any of the 5 basic senses.
Regardless, It would be very difficult for someone slower than himself to hit him, particularly if he would be fighting them from a distance.
It stretches the concept of pre-cog, since Spidey isn't truly finding out that something is happening before it does. He simply has a (currently) unexplained sense that reacts to presented danger, warning him however much time (.003 seconds is all I have to go by at the moment) before it hits him. Basically, he's gifted with insane reflexes that don't require him to see what he's reacting to. Not to mention, probably a good sense of timing if he was really clever about certain things in certain situations.
You've been reading Jinzin's posts too much. I'll have to dig up the issue again, but it was fairly apparent that he was moving forward towards Wolverine attempting to attack. You'll have to read the entire issue to really understand the fued between them.
I have read the issue and I do understand their little spat. It doesn't change the fact that in that specific panel, it doesn't look as if Spidey's lunged anywhere. But that doesn't matter much if Spidey is 'blood-lusted' in this match anyway, since lunging at his opponents is exactly what he'll do. If this is the case, then this is really a moot point not worth discussing anymore.
You know I intially never came up with the 50 ton mark..that was actually Mercilous..moving along however, I would say it all depends on how you interpret the word "lift." If you assume it to mean dead lifting an object that weighs 50 tons over one's head, then I would agree that he hasn't consistently demonstrated the ability to do this. However, if you are to interpret it as him being able to support a 50 ton building structure over his body for a limited period of time, then I can assure you he most certainly has. Case in point..one doesn't have to completely lift an object off the ground in order to lift it.And as I mentioned before, it has been demonstrated that an average persons adrenaline levels when heightened enable them to become much much stronger than they are under normal conditions. 2-3 times more to be specific. Spiderman is not an average human being. He is usually shown to be in the 10-15 tonner in terms of strength.
It's highly probable that his adrenile glands produce adrenilen at a much quicker pace than a normal human, making his strength increase exponentially higher/faster when in stressful situations.
The talk of Spider-Man's adrenaline glands being 'better' is really very wide open for debate and there's a lot of speculation that'd require. For instance, I doubt Spider-Man's adrenaline is any more 'powerful' than anyone else's and I doubt adrenaline has any more effect on him than it does anyone else. It's possible that he has a greater resistance to it, since it is technically a drug, albeit a naturally produced one. That's just too much of a wild card factor for me to want to even touch.
As for the 50 ton lifting thing, I'll concede to him being able to stand there, have 50 tons placed on top of him, and him supporting it for a short amount of time. He may very well be able to do that. I, however, don't see Spidey gaining that much strength for a dead-lift by adrenaline or any other non-artificial means, technological or otherwise.
If its possible to toss it based on the stipulation mentioned above, then that invalidates your argument. Even if one can not see it come off the ground, it still does lift off the ground to a limited extent. The degree to which it is lifted horizonatally/vertically in the air all depends on how much leverage one has when pulling it, what direction they are pulling it in, what angle are they at, and how much force they are able to apply to it when attempting the pull.
Right. My whole argument was that Spidey can't simply stand there and jerk his arm upwards with a 60 foot length of webbing and send any of the trio reeling into the sky. You simply made it sound that way to my ears.
bloodlusted" meaning..going for the kill, and not hindered by worry about civilians deaths, there captured loved one, Spidey being in awe of Cap, Cap considering Spidey a "good kid" etc, etc.When fighting without moral codes/values Wolverine usually becomes animalistic. Spideyman/DD/Cap are unknown quantities, however, SM has proven a damb difficult foe when he's focused and on the ball and has taken down some real heavy hitters that the Trio wouldn't stand a chance against, regardless of how intensified their abilities became.(Firelord, Ironman2020, Thor, etc, etc)
Could Cap/DD/Wolvie survive a battle with a SM who isn't worried about killing innocents fighting to his full potential?
Like Jinzin said, Wolverine's proven to be superior when in a berserker state of mind - Spidey's effectiveness diminishes. Their spat in the Danger Room, when they weren't even all that enraged, really, shows this. He won't be thinking very much and he won't be focused on anything than 'tear them apart with my bare hands'. History has shown that Spidey simply isn't anything beyond brute strength when he's angry and each time he has been, with the exception of Green Goblin, he's been defeated. Now he has two other people to deal with at the same time.
Firelord's a low blow, dude. That shouldn't have happened. 😄
Originally posted by jinzin
he's crazy..there is no explaination without giving spiderman somesort of handicap i.e. pis/cis, real world logic application that always works in his faovr but against his enemies, the "inconsistancy" argument, and giving him all benefits of the doubt...
I am still trying to get this out of my system. He thinks Spiderman could take all 3 of them out...at the SAME TIME...thats some funny stuff. At the same time 😆 well anytime he says something, i am just going to say, you think Spiderman could beat Cap,Wolvie, and DD at the same time.
Oh but its logic, yeah sure, but when I use it, it is sooooo Wrong.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Hey, what are they saying there? I can't read it.In that picture from Marvel Knights I mean. After the stabbing. I can't read it. It's too small and some is blocked.
wolverine-whats the matter? upset over a little scratch
cap-how'd he get loose?
im-blood made him slippery.
spiderman-stand back every body I'm gonna kick logans aghhhhh
Originally posted by jinzin
"You've been reading Jinzin's posts too much. I'll have to dig up the issue again, but it was fairly apparent that he was moving forward towards Wolverine attempting to attack. You'll have to read the entire issue to really understand the fued between them."their fued is an irrelivant issue in that pic.... spiderman is leaping the the side you don't have to read the entire issue...spiderman thought wolvie was hittin on his girl and she called logan a hairy midget....not like he really cared...than spiderman blew his cool...in any event spiderman's still shooting webbing and still leaping to the side...NOT LUNGING towards logan..anyone with eyes in their head and a bit of common sense can see that...
Would it make sense for SM to just stand there waiting for Wolverine to attack? That's what you and others are implying. Your rationale is that Wolverine somehow broke free of the webbing, jumped at SM from a distance, and SM stood their calmly waiting to dodge. Keep in mind that Spidey waiting for Wolverine to attack so that he can anticipate when to "dodge", goes directly against your/others argument of him being in attack mode. Why would one wait for an attack if they were cocky/angry? That doesn't make logical sense. Again my simple minded friend, apply common sense to what you read and interpret.
Originally posted by whobdamandogWait, how far away do you think Spiderman was while he was still attempting to web Wolverine up?
Would it make sense for SM to just stand there waiting for Wolverine to attack? That's what you and others are implying. Your rationale is that Wolverine somehow broke free of the webbing, jumped at SM from a distance, and SM stood their calmly waiting to dodge. Keep in mind that Spidey waiting for Wolverine to attack so that he can anticipate when to "dodge", goes directly against your/others argument of him being in attack mode. Why would one wait for an attack if they were cocky/angry? That doesn't make logical sense. Again my simple minded friend, apply common sense to what you read and interpret.
Originally posted by Logan 87
I am still trying to get this out of my system. He thinks Spiderman could take all 3 of them out...at the SAME TIME...thats some funny stuff. At the same time 😆 well anytime he says something, i am just going to say, you think Spiderman could beat Cap,Wolvie, and DD at the same time.Oh but its logic, yeah sure, but when I use it, it is sooooo Wrong.
Thats because you don't think objectively, why can't he win?
Wolvie boys are all over this thread, again.
Originally posted by jinzin
it was a bloodlust spidey that got his ass knocked out by daredevil in a fist fight AFTER he hit daredevil out of a skyscraper.....it's like I said 100 some pages ago....the trio wins for the very simple fact that spidey is not accustomed to fighting in bloodlust mode...he's a much more battlefield effective fighter when he's being weary....wolverine's stats...all of them except for intelligence actually go UP in bloodlust... he's far more accustomed to fighting as such and thus more comfortable with it, thus much more battlefield effective than spiderman when in such a state....as are any of the tio members...
You go by ONE pic of DD ko''ing spiderman, and use it as your religion, just as you like to use wolverine beating namor, you like ONE shots.
spiderman's villans are alive because he LET him live.
Accustomed to bloodlust? Thats not really a good argument there, I don't fight in BLOODLUST alot, and I can tell you I'd tear apart some people with a MUCH lower physical advantage than myself.
Originally posted by Juntai
Should, but Im pretty sure that happened.^^^
Also, Collosus gave Gladiator what for in the old Pheonix book.
Went for a few pages with him, and Glad barely came out on top.
Next thing you know, he's KOing Surfer.
wtf lol.
No I know it happened, kinda like herc.
But yea wolverine already stabbed surfer, but yea.....
Originally posted by Wanderer259
Like Jinzin said, Wolverine's proven to be superior when in a berserker state of mind - Spidey's effectiveness diminishes. Their spat in the Danger Room, when they weren't even all that enraged, really, shows this. He won't be thinking very much and he won't be focused on anything than 'tear them apart with my bare hands'. History has shown that Spidey simply isn't anything beyond brute strength when he's angry and each time he has been, with the exception of Green Goblin, he's been defeated. Now he has two other people to deal with at the same time.Firelord's a low blow, dude. That shouldn't have happened. 😄
Wait a second here, the thread implies bloodlusted, to fight to the best of their abilities, but have no restraint nor quams about killing or incapacitating their opponent/victim.
Even so, there hasn't been too much of a history of spiderman consistently fighting bloodlusted, he rarely does it, even with lives at steak, spidermans villans are alive because he "let" them live, there's a difference.
That, combined with the fact that spiderman uses MINIMAL effort almost all of the time, shows how he would be serious, wolverine, on the other hand, fights with no restraint, and doesn't apply alot of his training, like batman. He takes the his because he can, that isn't saying a whole lot, and I'm starting to see him as the weaker link along with murdock.
Originally posted by JuntaiGladiator's power it fueled by his confidence. . . if he doesn't feel confident he doesn't have his power. . .
Should, but Im pretty sure that happened.^^^
Also, Collosus gave Gladiator what for in the old Pheonix book.
Went for a few pages with him, and Glad barely came out on top.
Next thing you know, he's KOing Surfer.
wtf lol.
But when did he KO surfer? Surfer knows about and can exploit a weakness Gladiator has. . .
Originally posted by Logan 87
I am still trying to get this out of my system. He thinks Spiderman could take all 3 of them out...at the SAME TIME...thats some funny stuff. At the same time 😆 well anytime he says something, i am just going to say, you think Spiderman could beat Cap,Wolvie, and DD at the same time.Oh but its logic, yeah sure, but when I use it, it is sooooo Wrong.
You are right, when you use logic, its very wrong. A character wins
Like many others on this board, you lack the ability of objective thought, WHY can't he win?
Because he's fighting 3 other icons? Is that your only argument, that there are MORE of them? Because they are xxxx, argument?
Which ways do they overwhelm spiderman?
Spiderman has faced many foes at the same time before, even supervillans AND heroes. The sinister six would be a greater threat, but thats not my argument here.
Of course spiderman CAN lose, but he has a shot of winning here.
Comic knowledge simply isn't enough in a debate, logic/reasoning, calculations, and debating ability apply. if you are going to rehash what other comics have done, why are you here?
I'm pretty sure you aren't going to debate anything, but nutswing like pointinel, whatever.
This is why you and your mentor, don't have your posts too much considered. You aren't even arguing the same MEDIUM, Wanderer is, he's caught on...
You two are left behind, and its sad.
Originally posted by jinzin
he's crazy..there is no explaination without giving spiderman somesort of handicap i.e. pis/cis, real world logic application that always works in his faovr but against his enemies, the "inconsistancy" argument, and giving him all benefits of the doubt...
Of course it applies against his enemies, they are weaker and slower.
Anyway, you, like your apprentice, aren't arguing the same medium, soo...
You are left behind, wanderer has caught on and is doing a good job...
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
You are right, when you use logic, its very wrong. A character winsLike many others on this board, you lack the ability of objective thought, WHY can't he win?
Because he's fighting 3 other icons? Is that your only argument, that there are MORE of them? Because they are xxxx, argument?
Which ways do they overwhelm spiderman?
Spiderman has faced many foes at the same time before, even supervillans AND heroes. The sinister six would be a greater threat, but thats not my argument here.
Of course spiderman CAN lose, but he has a shot of winning here.
Comic knowledge simply isn't enough in a debate, logic/reasoning, calculations, and debating ability apply. if you are going to rehash what other comics have done, why are you here?
I'm pretty sure you aren't going to debate anything, but nutswing like pointinel, whatever.
This is why you and your mentor, don't have your posts too much considered. You aren't even arguing the same MEDIUM, Wanderer is, he's caught on...
You two are left behind, and its sad.
Oh it's only right when you use it, but you blow it off in wolverine batman and spiderman vs metallo, after Batman beat him because he was distracted in a battle. i didnt say they win H2H but you just want to make me look stupid, and not read my post. So I am going to do the same to you and see how you like it.
Originally posted by Logan 87
Oh it's only right when you use it, but you blow it off in wolverine batman and spiderman vs metallo, after Batman beat him because he was distracted in a battle. i didnt say they win H2H but you just want to make me look stupid, and not read my post. So I am going to do the same to you and see how you like it.
What are you blabbing about, you said he won along time ago.
Yes you make yourself look stupid, thats not my fault.