Really though..you've repeated the same damb thing for like the past 24 pages(ie Captain is a expert tactician!! he's a highly trained soldier!!..lol)..no real evidence of anything...but hey you if it makes you feel better you win...lol..oh yeah and don't take offense to all the stuff I post...just chill a bit dude..remember this is only a comic book debate...I doubt you'll experience any serious life altering repercushions from it..lol....
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Ignorance..lol..re read this puhleaases..lol...I've made a few corrections..their in bold..I didn't include the rest of the story cause I don't have all night to proofread...lol...puhleasse don't publish anything until you get a few editors and proofreaders to look it over..anyway..back to the debate..lol
Way too late in the AM. I'll retort tomorrow.
Well when you come back you'll be writing to yourself..I think the stance of Spider-Man winning has already been proven in this post....just by the simple picture of Spidey taking on the X-men in that one picture..lol..and no amount of "Captain broke the Hulk's hold once" or "Captain fought WWII" Nazi's is going to convince me otherwise...good debate however...peace out Captain...its been real...
Originally posted by whobdamandog
[B]Spidey's confrontations with the Hulk...The fight where Spidey has Wolverine in a choke hold, and Wolvie states that Spidey could kill him if he broke his neck...
Spidey's win against Juggernaut...[B]
not only does wolvie state that spidey could kill him if he broke his neck, but spidey also admitted that he wouldnt be able to dodge wolvies claws unsheathing
spidey's "win" against juggernaut was basically burrying him under cement that i guess hardened in a split-second lol, he did use good tactics, but he didnt really win against juggernaut as much as he just slowed him down a couple of weeks, which was also a really old comic along with spidey versus the xmen
btw, in a few of those fights wolvie had with hulk, he had no adamantium in his bones, and sometimes he still technically "won" (by that i mean under the same circumstances spidey won against juggernaut)
and spidey climbing up on a wall wont prove much either, daredevil has gone anywhere spidey has gone, he throws his weapons in great speed and accuracy all the time, and the same goes for cap and his shield....not to mention spidey does have web-cartidges which he will run out of or they will get damaged in the fight
spidey has never shown to simply keep great distance between his enemies while in the middle of a fight, he fought the sinister six and even then he never kept much distance between all of them
This thread has gotten rather personal hasn't it? For almost a good couple pages, there seemed to be material about other's grammatical error and personal attacks? Keep this to PM please.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Remember...as the good Captain Joke said.."every random incident should count..."List of Spiderman Feats
(note*there's a helluva lot more..I just don't feel like recounting the entire history of the character...lol..I'm not that much of a Spidey fanboy...lol)
Spidey's confrontations with the Hulk...
Spidey's confrontations with the Sinister Six...
The pic where Spidey hands the X-men their asses...lol
The fight where Spidey has Wolverine in a choke hold, and Wolvie states that Spidey could kill him if he broke his neck...
Spidey's wins against Firelord, Iron Man 2020, and Morlun...
Spidey's win against Juggernaut...his battle against DD foe Gladiator..
Oh yeah..and I think Spidey knocked out the Cap/Wolverine/Daredevil doubles during the infinity Wars..so that should count as logical evidence of Spidey winning as well...no doubt about it..based on all these historical scenarios..Spidey Wins...lol... 😆 😆 😆
Spiderman has fought Hulk, but was it a win? Well, he did survive.
On the X-Men comment, I guess you didn't read mine earlier. If they show them using their powers, they just are being depowered for the benefit of the doubt. He will not take on the X-Men on normal circumstances.
As stated by Havok, Wolverine already had his fist in sync to Spiderman's chin and could easily have popped his claws out too.
Winning against Firelord and this Ironman was special circumstances where you could have said he was going beserked. He isn't going to be in this mode all the time just as Wolverine will not be in his beserker.
Spiderman tricked Juggernaut, but essentially defeated. Also stated earlier and if you're talking about his team up with X-Force, Juggernaut's helmet was taken off by Siryn and by Mr. Tolliver's request, was taken away by Deadpool.
Infinity War dupes are considered a good comparison for the original. Otherwise, we could easily have said Hobogoblin can easily kill Spiderman (he shot Spiderman's).
Originally posted by radioboy121
Spiderman tricked Juggernaut, but essentially defeated. Also stated earlier and if you're talking about his team up with X-Force, Juggernaut's helmet was taken off by Siryn and by Mr. Tolliver's request, was taken away by Deadpool.Infinity War dupes are considered a good comparison for the original. Otherwise, we could easily have said Hobogoblin can easily kill Spiderman (he shot Spiderman's).
Correction, Spiderman didn't essentially defeat Juggeranut.
Infinity War dupes are not considered good comparison. What's wrong with my typing?
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Secondly, I HAVE stated a couple of ways. But, let's go with the facet of Spider-Man's persona that you fanboys have already stipulated to: his youthful cockiness. I've never met a teenager yet who didn't think they could beat everything placed in front of them, and they have no special powers as far as I've been able to tell. So, Cap analyzes the scene and realizes that clearly up high, although DD and he are very athletic, Spidey holds the advantage outside and up high. Ergo, bring it inside. Send DD up to keep him occupied, then lure Spidey indoors. Ambush him in tight spaces; bring the roof down around his ears; beat him to death with team work in tight where Spider-Man's agility won't do him as much good. Wolverine can really work him over here, DD can keep him busy if he tries to escape, and Cap runs the scenario and adds his own brand of damage if Wolverine gets stunned or taken out. No way Spider-Man's senses do him any good from the likes of these 3 when they're in close and working him over. Cap is the best combatant skill-wise among the 3, and the best at analyzing the fight. Wolverine can do the messy work because he can handle Spidey's counter punches. And DD is just icing on the cake; he's probably the closest to Spider-Man in this group, although weaker in all respects EXCEPT fighting SKILL. He is a trained martial artist, as is Captain America, with the knowledge and precision to land each blow exactly where they want them to go. Both of these characters can precisely land their blows with pinpoint accuracy, including nerve endings and eye sockets. Spider-Man's brand of combat is using his enhanced agility to flap and flail around, while using his enhanced strength to give more "UMMPH" to his blows. While showy and effective in it's own way, These other 3 guys are HIGHLY TRAINED combatants and will not be impressed above the initial "Oh wow, he's fast"; then they'll hem him in and beat the snot out of him.
But you're totally wrong about his spider-sense : three enemies or six, he can avoid them all. Doctor Octopus has 4 very long and very strong arms, but Spider-Man dances through them (most of the time 😉 ).
Just like he does with the Sinister Six. And Syndicate Sinister. And one time with the X-Men. And he held more than his own fighting X-Factor (when he was sick !). Or when he waltzes through dozens of deadly robots. Thanks to his spider-sense, he can dodge a good amount of bullets fired from lots of weapons, and bullets are much faster than DD, Cap or Logan.
And you ignore the speed of Spider-Man, it's a very important factor - see picture below:
Problem with this thead...
You have one hero with fans going agains 3 heroes with fans.
If you put them together, the fans will win and not the real hero that should win.
i.e Get a daredevil fan who may understand that DD shouldn't beat SM
but they make a reason that the 3 some has to win. Same thing for Capt America fan or a Wolverine fan. The numbers of fans are against Spiderman fans.
It probably is a two way street with SM fans saying that it would be a cakewalk over the 3 because of his power which is baloney.
Taking all into consideration.. SM should win but would not be a cakewalk under any circumstance. He would fail between 20% and 49% of the time.
To be honest with you I wasn't really trying to get personal...but I have to admit..it was kind of fun to talk trash with JK about issues of grammar and the like...it's all good though...I don't hold anything against him..this is a debate about comic books..so anyone who get's that defensive about these topics...really should talk to a shrink..anyways..back to the debate...
..Spiderman has fought Hulk, but was it a win? Well, he did survive.
Well I wouldn't classify Cap's breaking Hulk's hold once as a win either..but let's be honest now..Spidey's had much more impressive showings against the Hulk than Cap....I think most people would agree to this.......he's actually given the Green Goliath some pretty difficult times based on his abilities...Most of Caps battles with the Hulk..on the other hand..have just been plain embarassing....
On the X-Men comment, I guess you didn't read mine earlier. If they show them using their powers, they just are being depowered for the benefit of the doubt. He will not take on the X-Men on normal circumstances.
Sorry radioboy....but you guys can't just pick and choose which circumstances you believe to be a relevant/accurate...
.....based on the good Cap JK's and others rationale..."All comic history is relevant.." It's silly/inconsistant to change that argument around..and really weakens your overall position...
...So regardless of how the X-men and their abilities were represented in this particular issue...based on the arguments you all have provided..It still counts as a "relevant" basis of comparison as to how the battle between Spidey vs Cap/DD/Wolvie would play out...
as stated by Havok, Wolverine already had his fist in sync to Spiderman's chin and could easily have popped his claws out too.
Yes..now refer to the previous picture of Wolvie/X-men being easily manhandled by Spiderman..the chronology of the events doesn't matter..but I could easily assume that in this particular fight..Spidey would handle Wolverine the same way...
Spiderman tricked Juggernaut, but essentially defeated. Also stated earlier and if you're talking about his team up with X-Force, Juggernaut's helmet was taken off by Siryn and by Mr. Tolliver's request, was taken away by Deadpool.
Well I was actually referring to the original fight...regardless..it still demonstrates that Spidey does have a pretty good amount of tactical skill...when dealing with overwhelming odds..
Infinity War dupes are considered a good comparison for the original. Otherwise, we could easily have said Hobogoblin can easily kill Spiderman (he shot Spiderman's).
lol..to be honest with you I made that whole Spidey vs the Infinity War Dupes thing up..lol..could have happened..but we never see it occur...just wanted to see if anyone would catch me..lol
anyway.....you guys...can't just go back and forth with your logic....well I suppose you can but it really weakens your argument..if we count some scenarios in Comic book history as being valid....than we have to count them all....and based on all the facts presented in this debate..there hasn't been anyone here who's really given any plausible scenarios as to how Cap/DD/Wolvie are going to pull it off...but when someone does come up with something "plausible", I'll have no problem conceeding Spidey's loss...
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Well I wouldn't classify Cap's breaking Hulk's hold once as a win either..but let's be honest now..Spidey's had much more impressive showings against the Hulk than Cap....I think most people would agree to this.......he's actually given the Green Goliath some pretty difficult times based on his abilities...Most of Caps battles with the Hulk..on the other hand..have just been plain embarassing....
Villains are mainstay for certain characters often for the reason that they essentially are capable of handling them to a certain degree. I never saw the Hulk vs. Captain America fight, but I agree it should not happen. That is why Acts of Vengeance could have been successful (if the main villains didn't fight amongst each other). But then, I could also say how would Spiderman handle someone like Omega Red? It doesn't work this way.
Sorry radioboy....but you guys can't just pick and choose which circumstances you believe to be a relevant/accurate........based on the good Cap JK's and others rationale..."All comic history is relevant.." It's silly/inconsistant to change that argument around..and really weakens your overall position...
...So regardless of how the X-men and their abilities were represented in this particular issue...based on the arguments you all have provided..It still counts as a "relevant" basis of comparison as to how the battle between Spidey vs Cap/DD/Wolvie would play out...
First off, I didn't declare choosies to favor my side in a fight. I agree with Cap JK in the regard that I see the threesome winning, but I go by a different reasoning as to Spiderman's abilities and not on Captain America's accomplishments.
So far I have heard Spiderman had a number of incredible feats. If he can do this consistently, then yes I would be amazed. But realize just as I cannot say Wolverine can defeat the Hulk in every fight, you cannot say he definitely won every fight set in example here. For example, you mentioned Sinister Six, but realize during the reformation, he had trouble with Electro or Doctor Octopus alone and they were not in the mode of just finishing him off, so he was let go.
Yes..now refer to the previous picture of Wolvie/X-men being easily manhandled by Spiderman..the chronology of the events doesn't matter..but I could easily assume that in this particular fight..Spidey would handle Wolverine the same way...
Actually, I cannot see pictures in my current setttings. Can you refer me to a comic number and series, so I can look it up. I saw of one where he caught Nightcrawler and knocked Wolverine to the side, but why was Nightcrawler not teleporting? Forge made a contraption to ensnarl Nightcrawler far superior than Spiderman's web, but he escaped it. Does this mean the Secret War's version of Spiderman being controlled and defeating Fantastic Four is valid also?
Well I was actually referring to the original fight...regardless..it still demonstrates that Spidey does have a pretty good amount of tactical skill...when dealing with overwhelming odds..
I cannot discount that, otherwise they could have negated speed and agility and make him into another strong guy.
lol..to be honest with you I made that whole Spidey vs the Infinity War Dupes thing up..lol..could have happened..but we never see it occur...just wanted to see if anyone would catch me..lol
I know of two encounters for Spiderman off the top of my head. One was during the Infinity War limited series and the other was when he hesitantly teamed up with Hobogoblin to battle Spiderman's six armed clone and Demogoblin. I guess this cancels out my question on which comic the illusionary battle came from.
anyway.....you guys...can't just go back and forth with your logic....well I suppose you can but it really weakens your argument..if we count some scenarios in Comic book history as being valid....than we have to count them all....and based on all the facts presented in this debate..there hasn't been anyone here who's really given any plausible scenarios as to how Cap/DD/Wolvie are going to pull it off...but when someone does come up with something "plausible", I'll have no problem conceeding Spidey's loss...
This works both ways. You can easily acknowledge Spiderman in peak performance who's elusiveness should theoretically prevent characters like Green Goblin, Hobogoblin, etc. to even lay a finger on him. But this does not happen. The threesome aren't required to be in peak condition to say that they are not capable of not only touching him, but in fact taking him down.
As such a combination hasn't been tried before though I do believe they can coincide with each other better than the Deadly Foes combination, they stand a good chance with Spiderman who's speed and agility is being far overrated against these heroes who are not that ridiculously offkey to have a chance to react and catch him.
Villains are mainstay for certain characters often for the reason that they essentially are capable of handling them to a certain degree. I never saw the Hulk vs. Captain America fight, but I agree it should not happen. That is why Acts of Vengeance could have been successful (if the main villains didn't fight amongst each other). But then, I could also say how would Spiderman handle someone like Omega Red? It doesn't work this way.
yes..I know..lol..I believe I restated this many times in the forumn..refer to the posts below for more clarification...
First off, I didn't declare choosies to favor my side in a fight. I agree with Cap JK in the regard that I see the threesome winning, but I go by a different reasoning as to Spiderman's abilities and not on Captain America's accomplishments.
Well its good to know that you don't agree whole heartedly with JK..however..like JK..most of your arguments have been taken from random examples of Cap/Wolvie/DD's accomplishments...
So far I have heard Spiderman had a number of incredible feats. If he can do this consistently, then yes I would be amazed. But realize just as I cannot say Wolverine can defeat the Hulk in every fight, you cannot say he definitely won every fight set in example here. For example, you mentioned Sinister Six, but realize during the reformation, he had trouble with Electro or Doctor Octopus alone and they were not in the mode of just finishing him off, so he was let go.
I was being sarcastic in the referring to the various "feats" in each of the previous posts..I think that was pretty obvious...
..Using similar logic to what many here used to describe the Trio winning.
Still....accomplishments do play a part in validating one's argument....however...it makes sense to use a series of events...to do this..not just a RANDOM run of the mill encounter....
Case in point Spider Man has proven.. on more than one occassion to be able to...
avoid multiple bullets while being fired at...
avoid multiple people on Strength/Speed levels greater than Cap/Wolvie/DD(ie sinister six..Syndicate Sinister...the X-men..etc)
Detect suprise/sneak attacks on a pre cognitive level...
Lift cars, tanks, and destroy concrete walls with his fists...
Jump up 30 to 40 feet in the air..and across building...
These consistant examples..which have occured more than ONE time within the Comic realm..could be used to support the argument of it being extremely difficult(not impossible)....for Cap/DD/Wolvie to tag Spider Man...and if Spidey were to go all out...without restraint...he could more than likely take a normal level human's head off...
...Throw in the actual stats of each character into the argument..and I believe the battle swings even more on the side of Spiderman winning...
Actually, I cannot see pictures in my current setttings. Can you refer me to a comic number and series, so I can look it up. I saw of one where he caught Nightcrawler and knocked Wolverine to the side, but why was Nightcrawler not teleporting? Forge made a contraption to ensnarl Nightcrawler far superior than Spiderman's web, but he escaped it. Does this mean the Secret War's version of Spiderman being controlled and defeating Fantastic Four is valid also?
I'm not sure what series this picture took place in..I just copied it off of the board to support my point..anyway...
....refer to the previous reply above again to answer your question...
I know of two encounters for Spiderman off the top of my head. One was during the Infinity War limited series and the other was when he hesitantly teamed up with Hobogoblin to battle Spiderman's six armed clone and Demogoblin. I guess this cancels out my question on which comic the illusionary battle came from.
lol..well it could of hypothetically happened..we never see the entire group of heroes stuck on earth..fight off all their doubles..lol...anyway it was a joke...lol..I thought someone would catch it....
This works both ways. You can easily acknowledge Spiderman in peak performance who's elusiveness should theoretically prevent characters like Green Goblin, Hobogoblin, etc. to even lay a finger on him. But this does not happen. The threesome aren't required to be in peak condition to say that they are not capable of not only touching him, but in fact taking him down.As such a combination hasn't been tried before though I do believe they can coincide with each other better than the Deadly Foes combination, they stand a good chance with Spiderman who's speed and agility is being far overrated against these heroes who are not that ridiculously offkey to have a chance to react and catch him.
Well according to matches original post..
Everyone uses their usual weapons and abilities. Spiderman will use any means necessary to take out this team, the trio will do the same towards Spiderman. Who wins?
...I was assuming that each character would be fighting at the top of their game...sans the expression..."any means necessary"
So my original thoughts were to discount all silly plot devices and poorly written comic book examples..and decide the outcome of the battle on the basis of power/skills.
..from a strictly powers/skills perspective..I really have found it hard to believe that Cap/DD/Wolvie would have an easy time winning...and as of yet..no one has really given any "plausible" scenarios to prove this argument wrong.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I can't see Spider-Man coming out of this one.Not against those 3 all at once.
-AC
Heck, without Wolverine it wouldn't be that much, more of a Spidey swings his arms blindly and everyone in contact turns to jelly.
Originally posted by who?-kid
You always tell how great Cap is (he IS, by the way, I like him also), but you forget to mention the more impressive abilities of Spider-Man.You can Puh-leeease all you want, but everything (okay, most things) Cap can do, Spider-Man can do also. Only a lot faster. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.
Originally posted by Havoc470
....he said YOU have the logic of a 3 year old -_-i definitely agree with cap on this one, comic book reference is obviously the absolute power in a comic book versus topic
this is about spiderman versus three great characters (two of which he's had a problem fighting one on one) and adding captain frikkin america to the mix would just mean an absolute win for the trio....yes, that means an absolute loss for the spider
this would probably be about the time when people start pulling up incredibly out-dated marveldirectory.com data and try to use it in spidey's defense...........or pure fanboyism
None of the three listed are a physical match for Spidey, and until they are bitten by a radioactive spider they never will be.....