Just to refresh you Trio supporter's memories, I'm going to repost the most pertinent arguments posted against them...(Originally posted by Who_kid..excellently summarized by the way..)
1. Spider-Man can knock out DD and Captain America with only one punch. Fact.2. Spider-Man can not be touched by DD, Captain America and Wolverine. Granted, the Icon Trio is fast, but nowhere as fast as Spider-Man. And together with his spider-sense, that in a normal situation works perfectly by the way, he’s almost impossible to touch. Fact number 2.
3. Even if DD and Captain America manage to land a punch, Spider-Man can take them without much effort. He has taken harder punches and kept coming for more. Fact.
4. Since Spider-Man can knock out DD and Captain America with one punch, that only leaves Wolverine to deal with. Wolverine can not deal with web in his eyes, or in his mouth. Wolverine ONLY stands a chance when Spider-Man is dumb enough to fight him close combat-style. But Wolverine is the crappiest long-range fighter ever. Spider-Man isn’t...Fact.
5. Spider-Man will probably fight like he always fights, when outnumbered : he controls the fight from above. He can just crawl up a wall and web up the Icon Trio. Or throw some cars to them. He can avoid the shield and the billy club all day long if he wants to. Fact.
And SM doesn't have to start out up high to get out of the Trio's reach...even if the fight started on the ground...he is still fast enough to dodge their attacks and jump away before they could even touch him...(damb I feel like a record player..lol)...the guy can jump up to 3 stories from a standing position for cripes sake...lol...I really don't think a lot of peeps are thinking logically or know SM's "history" very well when reading some of these posts..I mean damb..he does stuff like this all the time...
Anyway...these arguments have been reposted multiple times by SM supporters on this thread..and I have as of yet not heard anyone logically rebuff them...(and no..Cap broke the Hulk's hold and Wolvy beat pirates......don't count as logical counter arguments)
Well, let's go ahead and knock them out again for you. First off, I don't see anything undeniable about any of this post, but let's see, shall we?
Originally posted by who?-kid
Okay, here are some undeniable facts for the non-believers:1. Spider-Man can knock out DD and Captain America with only one punch. Fact.
I don't agree with this. First off, it would have to be a haymaker punch of some sorts, a characteristically bad way to try and hit someone to begin with. And Captain America has that little shield thing he carries around that he has blocked much stronger AND faster foes with, so I'm pretty sure he would get that up in the way. And Cap ain't some punk who will be dropped by one punch. Fact disproved.
2. Spider-Man can not be touched by DD, Captain America and Wolverine. Granted, the Icon Trio is fast, but nowhere as fast as Spider-Man. And together with his spider-sense, that in a normal situation works perfectly by the way, he’s almost impossible to touch. Fact number 2.
They have ALL done it in the past. Fact. Your fact just died.
3. Even if DD and Captain America manage to land a punch, Spider-Man can take them without much effort. He has taken harder punches and kept coming for more. Fact.
I thought you said it was a fact that they couldn't hit him. Be careful; you're wishy-washing again. And NO ONE has ever taken either of these guys "without much effort". You killed your own fact.
4. Since Spider-Man can knock out DD and Captain America with one punch, that only leaves Wolverine to deal with. Wolverine can not deal with web in his eyes, or in his mouth. Wolverine ONLY stands a chance when Spider-Man is dumb enough to fight him close combat-style. But Wolverine is the crappiest long-range fighter ever. Spider-Man isn’t...Fact.
Already shot down the first part of this statement, and there is no way Spider-Man can beat Wolverine from 3 stories up. Eventually, he has to come down. And when he does... Your fact AND Spider-Man will be finished.
5. Spider-Man will probably fight like he always fights, when outnumbered : he controls the fight from above. He can just crawl up a wall and web up the Icon Trio. Or throw some cars to them. He can avoid the shield and the billy club all day long if he wants to. Fact.
I'm pretty sure Cap will have already thought through Spidey's tactics, so he'll plan and compensate. That's what he does. Your fact just died again.
And for the last time, the Trio has a good chance of defeating him, but only with some preptime and when they work together smoothly. NOT when they just ran into each other. Spider-Man is too unpredictable, too fast and too strong.
Hey, look; I found the part that 'whobdamandog' left out. I like that part about the trio having a good chance of defeating him, but the rest just smells like an opinion. A BAD one.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Well, let's go ahead and knock them out again for you. First off, I don't see anything undeniable about any of this post, but let's see, shall we?I don't agree with this. First off, it would have to be a haymaker punch of some sorts, a characteristically bad way to try and hit someone to begin with. And Captain America has that little shield thing he carries around that he has blocked much stronger AND faster foes with, so I'm pretty sure he would get that up in the way. And Cap ain't some punk who will be dropped by one punch. Fact disproved.
They have ALL done it in the past. Fact. Your fact just died.
I thought you said it was a fact that they couldn't hit him. Be careful; you're wishy-washing again. And NO ONE has ever taken either of these guys "without much effort". You killed your own fact.
Already shot down the first part of this statement, and there is no way Spider-Man can beat Wolverine from 3 stories up. Eventually, he has to come down. And when he does... Your fact AND Spider-Man will be finished.
I'm pretty sure Cap will have already thought through Spidey's tactics, so he'll plan and compensate. That's what he does. Your fact just died again.
Hey, look; I found the part that 'whobdamandog' left out. I like that part about the trio having a good chance of defeating him, but the rest just smells like an opinion. A BAD one.
1.) bounce around the shield and swat Cap. on the skull from behind.
2.) Rip the shield from Cap's grasp (after rushing Cap. before he could compose himself for it) what with his obvious stength advantage after casually dodging a shield sling, and strike with a punch from the side... resulting in an instant KO or collapsing of the skull.
3.) Latch his webbing onto the shield in mid-air (during an aerial attack) and yank it and Cap. in circles off the ground, after a couple go arounds Cap. will most definitely feel the dizzying effects as the strength of his grasp will decline....eventually, this dizzying effect will result inevitably in Cap. losing his grasp and fly off to the side. Spidey would saumersault over to his side and casually, but firmly, jab him across the skull.....instant KO.
And just because someone wrote an occurance such as Cap., DD, or Wolvie touching Spidey does not make it fact. Saying something like Superman touching Spidey and defeating him is laid out, in-your-face fact. But after everything and everyone that Spidey has ducked and dodged around in a casual to desperate manner, saying that someone with speeds that exceeds that of an Olympian no more, no less is opinion. The only one who's limits exceeds that which was mentioned is Wolvie, and he has in no way on logical terms shown speeds as impressive as Spidey on a regular or even slightly inconsistent basis.
And again, saying that someone who has done all the things Spidey has, including lifting the things he's lifted, percieved the things he has percieved, ducked and dodged the things he's ducked and dodged, outslugged and outfought those he has outslugged and outfought, would not take a peak human with abilties confined within humanity's limits without much effort when he's fighting to the BEST of his abilities is quite opinionated.
And Spiderman has taken falls from FIVE stories high, three stories is nothing to the guy, especially when you consider that he has swung high above ENTIRE buildings on a thread. You make it sound like the guy afraid of heights or something. All things considered, Spidey could just as easily snatch the guy up as he charges forward and toss him off out into the air.
And even regular foes of Spidey know nothing more of Spidey's tactics and unique fighting style other than the speed and reaction time brought upon by them. Not even Cap. could possibly predict what Spidey could do when using all of his abilties to their highest extent.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Well, let's go ahead and knock them out again for you. First off, I don't see anything undeniable about any of this post, but let's see, shall we?
lol...we shall...
I don't agree with this. First off, it would have to be a haymaker punch of some sorts, a characteristically bad way to try and hit someone to begin with. And Captain America has that little shield thing he carries around that he has blocked much stronger AND faster foes with, so I'm pretty sure he would get that up in the way. And Cap ain't some punk who will be dropped by one punch. Fact disproved.
Haymaker...come on now laddy..use some common sense...the "fact" remains that Spiderman has superhuman strength/durability/speed...Captain and DD do not....
....No "human" will be able to consistantly dodge a blow from an individual "40" times faster than themselves..
....No "human" will be able to withstand blow from muscles which can support 10+ tons of pressure...
Captain and DD both have "human" levels in the speed/durability/strength departments my friend..go to the Marvel Website...even they will tell you this......Cap/DD are not punks..but they will be dropped by one unpulled punch from Spidey...Fact reinstated.....😆 😆
They have ALL done it in the past. Fact. Your fact just died.
And he's dodged multiple people/things who are much much faster than the Trio in the past....when he wasn't fighting at his best...........which he will be doing in this scenario....making it "near" impossible to touch him...
I thought you said it was a fact that they couldn't hit him. Be careful; you're wishy-washing again. And NO ONE has ever taken either of these guys "without much effort". You killed your own fact.
Put your reading specks on JK...."almost impossible" is not= "impossible"...lol...and even if it is "possible" to hit him..it doesn't mean it's very "probable" that he will be hit...especially if he's fighting at his best...vous comprendez(do you understand..)? Damn am I good at keeping those facts alive...😆 😆 😆
Already shot down the first part of this statement
Actually you've really just been continually shooting yourself in the foot...lol..
and there is no way Spider-Man can beat Wolverine from 3 stories up. Eventually, he....
...Spider-Man will be finished.
I'm pretty sure Cap will have already thought through Spidey's tactics, so he'll plan and compensate. That's what he does. Your fact just died again.
It seems as if you keep on adding powers to the good Captain that he clearly doesn't have..first super strength...next super speed...then superhuman durability..and now you've made him "omniscient"...lol...😆 😆
If this is a random battle..how the hell will he know exactly what Spidey's going to do? Am I missing something here? Cap only has an average "human's"(there's that word again) intelligence..and regardless of his tactical skill...there's not to much he'll be able to strategize on the spur of the moment my man...especially with people he's not accustomed to working with....don't forget to be rational now buddy...
Oh but in the good Captain's defense..I did find one ability that he possessed which might enable him to beat Spidey..the ability to bore the hell out of readers and team mates alike with his long winded "moralistic" speeches...Spidey will die of boredom before he gets a chance to even strike the good Captain..lol...
I must be a hindu...My facts continue to be reincarnated...lol..
Hey, look; I found the part that 'whobdamandog' left out. I like that part about the trio having a good chance of defeating him....
Good research buddy..I've also managed to pull a quote from the thread archives...
Originally posted by Capt JK
I will concede that he could conceivably defeat any one of these guys alone..
So all he has to do is isolate himself...lets say..by jumping on top of a 3 story BUILDING for instance...web them up(they won't be able to dodge all the webs)..and pick them off ONE BY ONE
I like the way you think JK..I knew we could come to an agreement...😆 😆
Originally posted by Scoobless
those pics are the same size when you click them..... i can't read what he's saying........... is that the scene from when he's fighting the lizard and is trying to get to him before he kills himself, or his son kills him or something like that?
Yup that's the one...Conners regained control of himself due to Calypso's spell on him..and was looking for a cure...anyway..that's not the only time he's lifted that much...I remember him doing the same in an earlier issue of SM..in fact that scene was kind of like a "homage" to the earlier scene..I wonder how much he was lifting in the pick? It definately was much more than ten tons....
yeah i've seen similar scenes to that before as well....... the best "heavy lifting" one was when he held the train car over his head when he was getting headaches and some of elektra's ninja enemies really pissed him off......... he was pretty close to squashing the guy until elektra calmed him down
Hmm...interesting...has Elektra ever fought DD before? For some reason I recall her stalematting him once or twice...and if these ninja enemies were giving her a difficult time....and SM was able to dispatch of these enemies rather easily..........what does that say about a pissed of SM vs DD? Hmmmmmm....
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Hmm...interesting...has Elektra ever fought DD before? For some reason I recall her stalematting him once or twice...and if these ninja enemies were giving her a difficult time....and SM was able to dispatch of these enemies rather easily..........what does that say about a pissed of SM vs DD? Hmmmmmm....
i wouldn't say they were giving her an exceptionally difficult time, though spidey did fight with them over the space of two or three issues and soundly embarrassed them, he snapped the blade of some big ninja's thousand year old sword by a simple wrist movement and stopped another guys sword between the foreheads of two other ninja who he had rolled up in a carpet and was using as a weapon
Originally posted by whobdamandogI wrote down X-2 and I did this befor the second Spider-man came out and yes the fighting is better in that one and such and such but the story I don't know.Yes Supes 2 was tight as hell the first one could have ben better even for it's time and K.R did not make a good superman.Hey supes three was funny I love that one two.
Oh yeah Blade cutter no offense but the first SM and X movies sucked some serious ass...the sequels were leaps and bounds better than the originals...and what about Superman I and II...those still Kick some serious comic book movie ass..in my humble opinion....
Originally posted by Scoobless
those pics are the same size when you click them..... i can't read what he's saying........... is that the scene from when he's fighting the lizard and is trying to get to him before he kills himself, or his son kills him or something like that?
That may not make sense now, but think about it, it will come to you.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
EDIT: I repeated a statement said earlier.That may not make sense now, but think about it, it will come to you.
all i was saying was is your link pictures are too small, i got why you posted them........ i'm not sure what you're talking about with this most recent post
Originally posted by Scoobless
all i was saying was is your link pictures are too small, i got why you posted them........ i'm not sure what you're talking about with this most recent post
And I was referring to whobdamandog's post answering your question about the link in my second post. I was going to answer it myself and did, but edited it when I saw that whobdamandog had did so himself.
"Yes it was...as it was demonstrated on the cover and in the comic itself...Cap had a difficult time hitting SM...and as it was also demonstrated..SM wasn't really struggling to avoid him....which would make one think that at his best..Cap/DD/Wolvie won't be able to touch him..."
maybe we all don't dudge how a fight will be settled by looking at the cover of a fu**ing comic.
"Yes as do you...using your logic...."The entire history"...is relevant..so it should be used...however..unlike you Trio supporters..we have consistancy to our examples..meaning we've cited things that happened more than once or twice...and are consistant with the overall character and his abilities....consistancy along with "facts" make a strong argument..."
yeah cap, Haven't you seen the 5 bazillion comics where spidey's running around organ snatching? I mean come on man get with it.
"Yes..probably..your too busy reading Captain America..diversify laddy..set your spirit free..there are other things out in the world other than Captain America...lol..."
Okay, just so you know, you just agreed that firelord does appear in every other spider-man issue with this statement strawnilla, I know it's hard but try to keep up okay.
"When I said that "you're the one who needs help if you "identify" with a comic book character" you retorted with a "well you just insulted half the posters on this board." Besides that not being directed at you (thereby making it none of your buisness), "identifying" with a comic book character would mean that you see yuorself in them or can relate to them and their lifestyle. If you can do this and not want to live their life or be more like them, then you never really identify with them."
Okay it's time for a little lesson in humility......a-again. to identify suggests a psychological empathy with the feelings or experiences of another person, on other words, to consider (oneself) as similar to somebody else; "He identified with the refugees". What does this mean? Well i'll tell you! 🙂 It is common for people who like a particular comic book character to find that they do so because they can relate to the character in question. This includes lifestyle, morals, values, personality, sense of humor, or lack there-of, attitude, etc etc....HOWEVER, one needs not to want to live the life of a refugee, or a comic character to identify with them. One may use those said values morals and lifestyles as a guide without wanting to go fight super villians every month. The funny thing is spider-man is easily one of, if not the most identifiable comic book characters in history, (this has been stated time and time again) and yet you seem to think that every spider-man fan would want to be spider-man,,,,,ridiculous.
"And I haven't responded to your scenarios....no, I guess I didn't counter every scenario that Capt. JK had listed....liar."
So now your arguments been depleted to false accusations huh? well lets see I did say "our" scenarios,,,implying more than one person,,, for examples cap and (oh I don't know) MYSELF! not once did you retort any one of my scenarios. And while we're on the subject, since there's walls and crap giving spiderman homefeild advantage are we to also assume that they are in a pitchblack, jungle, warzone, during this fight as well?
"And your name NEVER CAME UP IN MY POST DIRECTED AT CAPT. JK, STOP LYING! "
Hmmmm I do seem to recall an ENTIRE post directed at me......go look it has my name at the header, anyone with 2 eyes in their skull could see that. Lying? so now REAL facts aren't even an opinion in your book, there just lies? hahahaha, man this is retarded.
"And I "made up" facts? Okay, you call them FACTS yet you say I made them up? That's just....sad."
No you call them facts. When I say you made up facts well,,,,,,ugh just save me the headache and go look up sarcasm for yourself.
"And crap writing is NOT FACT! There's always a loophole as to how it happened. You said it yourself, Spidey had 5-7 titles that were pretty much crap, "
Actually, something that DID take place,,,,in continuity is a fact.....even by your standards, unless the loophole was that these comics we're reffering to took place in another universe, you're just utterly wrong. And please show me were I said that due to spidey have multiple ongoing titles and appearances it's crap infact show me where I've ever had to use the CWA (crap writing argument) as a stand against spidey or for that matter any fight on these boards,,,,,ANY,,,,,,seriously every time I've called you out about this kind of stuff you've avoided it like the plague, and I'll tell ya why, cause you're wrong,,,,,again. That was in relation to you saying that spiderman got hit by cap because cap was more popular, it had absolutely nothing to do with the CWA (crap writing argument). I've never had to resort to the CWA to save my characters ass, honestly the CWA is what people have to resort to when they can't think of anything else to say, and I utterly detest it has a meathod of debate on these boards,,,,,however if you can find one example where I stated that one character beating another is inplausible in every way due to the CWA. I'll shut up,,,,,,the bottem line is however, you won't.
"Spidey impressed by the force in Cap's arm? Yet he cracks jokes when being pummeled by thirty supervillains after being blasted away by twenty lasers and dropped into a prison cell, comments on his sense of humor in a fight with Venom, grabs on to some bus bars packing ALOT of heat (Johhny Storm exaggerating saying that there were about ten trillion volts in them, but does act as an indication to the staggering amount of electricity in the bus bars) just to get the symbiote away from him...he ended up merely blacking out for a couple hours."
go read the comic and see for yourself. it says it all there. and spidey cracking jokes,,,,,honestly it's like you don't even know the character you're attempting to defend. He does that all the time and it's false bravado, he's even stated this on a couple of occasions. Hell I have stacks of comic where venom's killing, or about to kill spider-man and he's still cracking jokes, it doesn't mean he's not thinking (oh shit) inside.
"And wow, proof of an issue to which I never denied the existence of.......fascinating. You haven't even rebuked my arguments with anything else but calling it fact. That's not an argument (not a liable one), more like a, what's the word I'm looking for, the word you use to describe the scenarios of the Spidey supporters......oh yeah, your OPINION."
again sarcasm, look it up. it will be fun. and the whole thing about that comic is that you claim spiderman beat captain america in it,,,,,,just based on that I already know you've never opened page one of that book and have no credibility to proclaim what took place in it, furthermore you try and use the cover of the comic as the basis for your debate, ridiculous.
"And why would Spidey be scared to die fighting Wolvie when knowing he's faster and could easily avoid his claws as well as grap his neck? End result: it snaps like a twig. And do you know the sad part to all of this? There's so many ways in which Spidey could easily stun and/or stop Wolvie, as well as one or two options that allows the kill, yet, his character was written to fear him. I guess Spidey backhanding the guy a couple feet backwards means nothing to say for a one-on-one fight......how sad."
perhaps it's becasue he knows wolverine has a good chance of taggin him, or that one hit will end the fight, or that he may not be as lucky as he ussually, or (and the list goes on and on). And seriously, he backhanded wolverine and knocked him down,,,,,I was totally unaware that that counts as a victory in a fight. ohhhhh wait that's right, it doesn't. pffft, was wolverine hurt? no. was wolverine trying to hurt spidey? not really.
"And why wouldn't Cap be dumbfounded in the process of being pummeled to death?"
probably because he'd be to busy winning.
"That the Trio have never "tangled with foes of superior power" on the level as SM's....I have as of yet not received any examples of these foes...(note Scorpian and Doc Ock don't count..lol)"
hmmmm magneto, horde, apocalypse, hulk, ultron, venom, namor, sentinal armies, etc etc,,,,yeah what a bunch of lightweights.....my ass.
"Cap punching Spidey "1" time hardly counts as a win either"
perhaps not, but it certainly nullifies your pathetic, they won't touch him theory.
"they were fighting the "Friendly Neighborhood Spidey".
hmmmmm and just what does "I'm giving him everything I've got" translate in your diluted misguided brain?
"and Wolverine always gets hit a ton of times in all of their encounters"
guess you missed out on hulk 181 as well huh?
"and you really haven't given any reasons as to why he and the rest of the Trio would win..other than the following:
The Trio are Icons....
Captain America is the World's Greatest Tactician..
Wolverine is a killing Machine..."The best at what he does"
Daredevil has a fighting style that nearly mimics SM...(which is very inaccurate and untrue)"
Is that what you read? interesting, I could have sworn to have written literally pages of crap has to why the trio would win. So far all you've given is a flood of posts telling us how great you think spiderman is, and a bunch of "nu-uh" arguments (if you can even call them that). We have given reason,,,,,after reason,,,,after reason for why spider man would get his ass literally handed over to him in this fight and whether you choose to accept it or not is one thing, but this is stupid. When you couldn't win the debate drawing from the comics themselves, you reverted to using stats, when that didn't work, you choose to insult the trio fighters, when that didn't work we wnet back to he comic book examples and when that didn't work you started making up powers and abilities that your character isn't even capible of and claiming that they're facts,,,,,and finally when that didn't work, you choose to call trio-supporters liars, as well as making up an entire spider-man universe where spiderman beats up on hulk and firelord on a monthly basis. You've brought nothing to the table but "spider man is 40 times faster" more times than I can count. So far your agument has been riddled with logical fallacies, false accusations, innacurate accounts, and nonsensacle bullsh**, If I wans't done with you before I am now, you can reply all you want but know now that anything you post in regards to this fight fall upon blind eyes, if anyone else still cares to bedate this issue further that's fine, but frankly, i'm tired of humiliating you, and shooting down your arguments.
Originally posted by jinzin
And while we're on the subject, since there's walls and crap giving spiderman homefeild advantage are we to also assume that they are in a pitchblack, jungle, warzone, during this fight as well?
Actually, something that DID take place,,,,in continuity is a fact.....
Do I have to continue ? The list is long my friend.pffft, was wolverine hurt? no. was wolverine trying to hurt spidey? not really.
So those claws were just for show ?seriously every time I've called you out about this kind of stuff you've avoided it like the plague
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but still, nobody has ever proved me wrong when I talked about the Five Facts. Most people like to avoid it like the plague, or give lame replies.
Okay, here are some undeniable facts for the non-believers:1. Spider-Man can knock out DD and Captain America with only one punch. Fact.
2. Spider-Man can not be touched by DD, Captain America and Wolverine. Granted, the Icon Trio is fast, but nowhere as fast as Spider-Man. And together with his spider-sense, that in a normal situation works perfectly by the way, he’s almost impossible to touch. Fact number 2.
3. Even if DD and Captain America manage to land a punch, Spider-Man can take them without much effort. He has taken harder punches and kept coming for more. Fact.
4. Since Spider-Man can knock out DD and Captain America with one punch, that only leaves Wolverine to deal with. Wolverine can not deal with web in his eyes, or in his mouth. Wolverine ONLY stands a chance when Spider-Man is dumb enough to fight him close combat-style. But Wolverine is the crappiest long-range fighter ever. Spider-Man isn’t...Fact.
5. Spider-Man will probably fight like he always fights, when outnumbered : he controls the fight from above. He can just crawl up a wall and web up the Icon Trio. Or throw some cars to them. He can avoid the shield and the billy club all day long if he wants to. Fact.
And for the last time, the Trio has a good chance of defeating him, but only with some preptime and when they work together smoothly. NOT when they just ran into each other. Spider-Man is too unpredictable, too fast and too strong.