it all depends on the type of advantages and disadvantages people have in battle, now lets say that spidey goes up against an advanced sentinal, n the sentinal can shoot homing missiles at him, well chances are that in a place without cover, spidey would lose, now put cap in the same situation and he l probably win cause his shield is great defence against all times of burst attacks, n its all the cover he needs, he can use it for cover n it can absorb any real impact from the blast n stuff, until he gets close enough to ram the shield in the sentinal's ass, beating him, doesnt mean that cap is stronger than spidey, just mean that hes better suited for the fight than he is, just like daredevil, even though hes inferior to cap, will last longer in a fight against spidey thatn cap will, because his senses are better suited to fighting spiderman, however that doesnt make him better than cap.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
....now lets say that spidey goes up against an advanced sentinal, n the sentinal can shoot homing missiles at him, well chances are that in a place without cover, spidey would lose.....now put cap in the same situation and he l probably win cause his shield is great defence against all times of burst attacks....
I'm sorry...I don't mean to be rude but their is no way in HELL Cap could ever defeat a sentinel...
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Is it just me...or does the fact that you believe that DD [B]can't defeat Spider Man pretty much weaken your overall argument of the Trio winning? [/B]
No, I don't think it does at all. I don't think DareDevil could defeat Spider-Man alone. But this is not a DD vs. Spider-Man thread, it is a team thread. And with Captain America and Wolverine on DD's side, Murdock will be on the winning team.
And since we're on the subject, why couldn't Captain America defeat a Sentinel? He's defeated far MORE powerful opponents in the past, and the Sentinels have been defeated by far LESS powerful heroes. Your bias against Cap is obviously clouding your judgement and your comments.
Originally posted by unregisteredMAN
i'm new here. i have a few things to say about this one. before anyone asks I have read all of these characters significantly through the years. first off, its clear that all of these characters at one time or another have had their powers either exaggerated or diminished by some writer for the sake of telling a more balanced story, personal favoritism, or any other reason. b/c of this its hard to refer to a specific comic as 'proof' in any conclusive way. in general, however, there are accepted power levels that are attributed to each character. you can find these, with slight differences even here, in various 'official handbooks' and 'marvel encyclopedias.' generally, cap is described as being in 'peak human condition' -- referring to strength, speed, endurance, agility etc. quantitatively, hes able to lift/press about 800-1500lbs--maybe a ton. DD is not this strong by any account, and wolverine is sometimes described as having this level of strength, but generally he doesnt -- and he certainly isnt stronger. spiderman, however, is consistently described as being orders of magnitutde stronger -- about a factor of 10 times. i realize that there is more to fighting than strength, but the point of the above was to basically show that against spiderman none of these characters can rely on their strength. basically, one or two hits from cap or DD wont do much against spiderman. wolverine is the only character able to do damage from a single hit. moving to speed/quickness and agility. also no contest here. DD is fast, quick, and agile. so is cap, but probably more so than DD. same goes for wolverine. he is sometimes described as being at cap's level in these categories, sometimes not--but hes in caps general ballpark. spiderman is ALWAYS described as being significantly faster, quicker, and more agile than any of these characters. in fact, these are often described as his main advantages in combat -- his dominating speed, quickness, and agility. its unclear if hes "3 or 4 times faster" or if hes 20 times faster. whats important is that none of the other characters can overcome his speed -- in the sense that they wouldnt be able to successfully defend themselves against an attack--and almost certainly wouldnt be able to counter it and get some serious hits in. wolverine is the only one for whom this isnt 100% true. a block from wolverine could mean some serious damage b/c of his claws so spidey would have to be quite careful but I still think that his speed could see him through. moving to my main point (if youre still reading). its clear that none of the opponents can relly on any of their fundamental physical strengths to handle spidey. there is however much more to a fight than individual strengths and weaknesses. cap for example, is always described as a great tactician one on one and in a group. its his ability to anticipate an opponents movements and strategies, and then counter tham that makes him so potent. this is his main strength in combat. same goes for wolverine (though without the 'group leader element)--hes a master fighter, and more dangerous than cap b/c one hit is enough to do serious damage. DD is also a great fighter, not on caps or wolvie's level, but still great. his senses are obviously his main advantage, and what limits those senses is his reaction time -- which is far far slower than spideys. in any event, in a one on one fight, i think everyone agrees than DD doesnt really have a chance against spidey. with cap, spidey would have a slightly harder time. like i said above, hes a great fighter, but his role here would naturally be defensive. spiderman simply has too many decisive advantages in speed and strength. i cant really see cap being able to block or dodge spideys attacks for a very long time -- shield or no shield. his shield cant be everywhere at once, and spideys speed guarantees that it would have to be for cap to have a chance. in general cap would have to never make a mistake to survive spidey, and even if he does defend perfectly, spideys still too fast for him to stop. spidey on the other hand doenst need to be perfect to throw down with cap. his speed and strength mean that he has many more options -- if he misses an attack and is left open as a result, he has plenty of time to defend (this isnt true for cap...if he leaves himself open even once its pretty much done). i see cap going down in this one. wolverine is basically the only one that pidey needs to worry about. this is because, his ability to do damage with one hit means that spidey cant make many mistakes either. if he miscalculates and wolvie is able to dodge an attack, though hes still fast enough to dodge it, if he stumbles of wolvie gets lucky with positioning or wtvr, spidey could be seriously damaged. the spider sense would be a key component here. it would give spidey an additional defenseive tool he could use to avoid wolverine if he had too. conversly, wolverine also doenst have to be perfect on defense. his healing factor gives him some room to take hits. but even in that comic that everyone cites, where the two fight in a graveyard, wolvie eventually admits that the only reason spidey didnt beat him is b/c he didnt have to stones to break his neck, which he is clearly capable of doing. bottom line, spiderman would definitely get some hits in on wolvie, but he'd have to get a lot of really serious ones in to knock wolvie out, or hed just ahve to break his neck. wolverine, would need to get a few serious blows in to finish spidey--not just casual scrathes. this would be really hard with spideys speed, but if he got lucky he could maybe get one or even two. the webbing hasnt even been brought in here, with it spidey is even more potent. one on one, with webbing or without, spidey beats cap and DD easily, and he still beats wolverine, buts its tougher. all three of them working together, is a totally different matter. here, caps tactical strength is greatly hightened. daredevil can be used on point for example, to draw spidey into poitioning that is more favorable to cap and wolverine, for example slowly forcing him closer to wolverine than he would normally want to be unless he was attacking. also, with all three of them spidey doesnt have as many options, he cant afford to slip up or miscalculate. the burden is on him to be near perfect, because if he isnt, he might get tagged real real hard. he cant keep focused on all three oponentsat once, and even the spidersense wouldnt save him b/c he doenst know the specific nature of the threat. in fact, it could even be used against him, for example by creating a fairly obvious threat that he would 'sense' and would naturally react to, and setting up a situation in which his reaction would inadvertantly put him in an even more dangerous situation -- sandwiched between wolverine and cap all of a sudden for example. the point is that there are now several ways for spidermans decisive advantages to be countered. again, wolverine is probably the only one among the three that would be used as a 'finisher' where as DD and cap would do some setting up. one on one, spidey wins hands down, but three on one, he almost certainly loses. those are my 2 cents.
Hey, welcome to the forum.
Boy, you really did break things down to deliver your point of view. I don't agree with your outcome, but I do appreciate your style of arguing. You really took the time to be thorough.
I noticed you weren't too sure about Spidy's speed and I don't blame you. There have been various reports. I believe his traveling speed is what is 3-4 times human. He can probably get around 100 mph when he is trying to get from point A to point B. His reflexes in combat is what is probably 30-40 times human.
Just to warn you, things can get kind of hectic in this thread. Again, welcome to the forum.
Originally posted by MatchesMalone
I completely agree with your second paragraph.However, they still can get the crap beat out of them by a whole bunch of people. Take Daredevil for example. I dare anybody to list the names of "super heroes" that can't beat Daredevil in a fair fight. If somebody takes me up on that, you will find...
1. A very short list
2. A list containing only the names of heroes that have similar abilities, but not as famous.
Since Cosmo Kramer has shown up in this thread again, I have to ask.
Is there anybody that is going to take me up on my challenge of making a list of "super heroes" that can't beat Daredevil in a fair fight?
Originally posted by X-Logan
Logan can beat spidey alone...
Retort
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