"I'm not "it both ways."
ummmmm unless....you think that being bitten by a radioactive spider can give you super powers.....then YES YOU ARE!
"The common sense related to their origin and the common sense related to their abilties are two different things"
no...they're interconnected.
"The abilities of a character are constant, period"
ummmm. no they're not.....read more comics.
Originally posted by jinzin
"I'm not "it both ways."ummmmm unless....you think that being bitten by a radioactive spider can give you super powers.....then YES YOU ARE!
"The common sense related to their origin and the common sense related to their abilties are two different things"
no...they're interconnected.
"The abilities of a character are constant, period"
ummmm. no they're not.....read more comics.
And the origin and the abilties are only connected as far as the origin branching off the abilties, aside from that, vital weaknesses that effect a character's abilties play the main role alongside those abilties. The origin really doesn't matter.
And the only time a character's abilties aren't constant are through PIS, CIS, or both. And they only return when that character is not fighting a certain other character or dealing with some type of voodoo magic that strips them away. And even in those cases it's only temporary. In the long run, a character's abilties are constant otherwise they wouldn't have to play the major role they play in comics. Without Spider-Man's spider-like abilties, he's just Peter Parker. There's nothing Spider-Manish about him. If you don't have the abilties, you don't have the character you set out to make through them, therefore, they have to be constant.
Originally posted by jinzin
"You've been arguing that all that doesn't matter."no I haven't I've been arguing that it's not as simple as human vs. suerhuman based on their past showings......
Where in any comic has it ever indicated that Cap, DD, or Wolvie all have superhuman abilties? Nowhere.
You've been denying this and therefore you've been arguing that it doesn't matter, sugarcoat it as you may, it doesn't change a thing.
"Did I ever say that I thought that a bite from a radioactive spider could give a guy superpowers? I think not. In fact, I even said that it doesn't make sense, and it really doesn't have to. Do you think that Cap's origin made sense, or DD's? I don't. And I could care less whether they did or they didn't. It's the abilties that matter."
dude if you can accept the fact that spiderman's origins and powers make no sense then why are you trying to debate that DD taking spidey/hulk punches makes no sense? given the characters histories none of them MAKE SENSE....but we still accpet their powers for what they are.......why is it so hard for you to accept their HISTORIES for what they are?
"And the only time a character's abilties aren't constant are through PIS, CIS, or both. And they only return when that character is not fighting a certain other character or dealing with some type of voodoo magic that strips them away. And even in those cases it's only temporary. In the long run, a character's abilties are constant otherwise they wouldn't have to play the major role they play in comics. Without Spider-Man's spider-like abilties, he's just Peter Parker. There's nothing Spider-Manish about him. If you don't have the abilties, you don't have the character you set out to make through them, therefore, they have to be constant."
powers and abilities are NEVER consistant.....they are comparable....very very comparible.....but polar opposite still apply.
What you fail to realize is that I'm only saying that the origin DOES NOT MATTER AND THAT THE ABILITIES THAT BRANCH OFF FROM IT PLAY THE DOMINANT ALA MEANINGFUL ROLE. You're twisting my words. The origin doesn't make sense, and that does not matter. What matters is that DD, Cap, and Wolvie were all described as being in the physical conditions of a man at his absolute peak, a HUMAN man. Spidey is simply well beyond that. Why can't you accept that if Spidey demolishing a building with his bare hands makes sense while Spidey punching through DD or Cap's HUMAN chests, then there is something WRONG! Don't tell me to accept something illogical. If Spidey was (and still is) said to have superhuman strength, speed, agility, durability, equilibrium, endurance, etc, etc then that's fine, I'll go with that. I can deal with him dropping a building or two with his bare hands, sure it'll take some times and alot of punches, but he can get it done. If Cap, DD, and Wolvie are described in comics as being at the peak of human performance physically, then zippity do dah fine! I can see them taking out a couple of ninjas singlehandidly sure, they're human, but so are the ninjas. But once things start getting out of hand such as writers going as far to say that these human characters with peak human abilties are going around punching people through cars and brick walls as well as tagging and even hurting guys many times faster and stronger then they in addition to possessing pre-cog, then we have a problem. I can accept it happening, in comics, but not logically. It's not logical, it's created to fit the interest and imagination of the reader, and I can deal with that, but don't try and convince me that they could actually do that without the help of PIS/CIS.
And powers and abilties are next to always consistent, with a few bumps along the way such as writers "forgetting" that a character holds a physical advantage in a fight over another character and writing it out. But they always bounce back into the story with the help of a writer that doesn't have to employ the help of gimmicks to get a battle going. Without the powers and abilties set to a character playing the major role that they do because of them, they don't play that role.
Originally posted by jinzin
"Where in any comic has it ever indicated that Cap, DD, or Wolvie all have superhuman abilties? Nowhere. "DD takes hulk punches....logan throws a dumspter from one side of an ally to another with one arm...nuff said.
Until MARVEL confirms that these characters are superhumans, what ever happened in comics such as what you posted in comics are just pictures.
"Until MARVEL confirms that these characters are superhumans, what ever happened in comics such as what you posted in comics are just pictures."
like cap and wolvie kicking spiderman's ass.
common man you really need it to be put into words before you can accpet that these guys are not bound by the logic of our reality?.....please....I don't want to get into a semantic argument about this...face it the CWA is all you have to cling onto....nothing else is helping you inthis debate........these characters are not a bunch of stats like capjk said....we know what they're capible of because of what we've seen in comcs..comics and powers aren't always consistant....this is esp. true for spiderman. and I don't need it to be put into writing to know that no regular human bound by our logic......can't chuck a dumpster with one friggin arm.........the trio has been able to fight spidey on their own....all together they kick spiderman's spider ass....it's not that complicated and this debate should have began and ended with with FACT......that's right it happened= FACT.....accept it, get over it, do whatever you need to do.....spiderman still loses all the same.
Originally posted by jinzin
"An ability that Cap, DD, and Wolvie, even as a team, do not possess no matter how you want to make it so"ummmm I defer to my scans....I don't make it so...it's already been made so....lol.
Bottom line: They're NOT superhumans, they ARE outclassed, and unless Spidey's going to stand there and play punching/clawing bag the trio WILL be taken down.
Originally posted by jinzin
"You're repeating little bits and pieces without looking at the whole picture. That's why I say Spidey wins."I thought you said spidey wins based on his super human abilities? lol....
-NOT superhumans
And that they cannot:
-Take an unpulled superhuman's punch when said superhuman has the calibur of suoerhuman strength Spidey has, nor can they avoid it thanks to Spidey's superhuman speed
Originally posted by StrawNilla
Wolvie didn't allow Spidey to web him up to any degree, Spidey leaped over his head and webbed him down. And I never said anything about the writer commenting on Spidey's standing there, doesn't mean that he didn't.And the webbing did make contact on Wolvie's skin, Wolvie moving to fast for the webbing to adhere once it came at him from all sides?! Forget all the other stuff you've posted, for now, this has to be the most redicoulous thing I've ever read from any of your posts. If he had to "pull" away from the wall, then he was obviously STUCK THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
And I'm sick of telling you that an upgrade was never indicated to have increased DD's musculature to that of which he could take several swats from Hulk, or Spidey for that matter. Aside from the superhuman senses (which still are not as good as pre-cog), there's really nothing about DD that isn't human. Go ahead and recite your little excerpts from comics where DD "took" swats from the likes of the Hulk and unpulled punches from the likes of Spidey, but untill there is any indication of an upgrade he's still a peak human making him human in the first place.
And your point of how else will DD or Cap survive one of Spidey's unpulled punches....it's simple: they won't. They are STILL human, the other stuff they did that's just beyond human is beyond hype. It's CIS. Sure, I can see them taking a bullet or two in the arms and/or legs and still feeling well enough to walk away, most average humans could probably do this, hey, maybe they can do more. But as far as the superhuman feats go, it's just not fact. They should be hospitalized if they're hit by a car much moreso in the case of several swats from the Hulk. Why? Because where in your precious issue where DD takes these swats from Hulk does it say that: "DareDevil's superhuman durability and willpower allowed him to compensate to the Hulk's attacks?" Where? I'll tell you where, nowhere. Because they can't. It's COMMON SENSE. I mean, Spidey wouldn't have been confirmed as a superhuman himself if it weren't for the comics doing so. You could've just as easily called Spidey punching through cement walls crap if it were not confirmed as being in his physical power to do so. In this case, DD, Cap, and Wolvie are not confirmed of being physically capable of doing anything to a cement wall after they've pounded and pounded at one repeatedly. They were classified of being at the physical peak of human capability.
And no matter how you try to toy with that fact, until someone who has the power to do so actually changes it up, it won't change. And while DD's senses are helpful in noting when Spidey's going to attack, they can't do much to stop Spidey from doing it. And there's alot more to the argument of Cap and DD both being human (as well as Wolvie being in a peak human's condiition) than simply saying it's crap writing, that's just something you won't accept. And a superhuman with the upper hand in pretty much every physical aspect over his opposition, including the fact that he has PRE-COG does nothing to bring anything to the table just because a group of characters' abilities were overhyped to fit the interest of the reader? Now THERE'S the worst way to debate.
go straw!
um jizjin, you're not really making much sence right now. your earlier arguements had some logic but now you just sound angry. . .