Could god challenge himself?

Originally posted by eleveninches
He doesnt need to be infinite in size.
If he invented space and time, then he would have created 'size', so it would be meaningless to him.

If he created 'size' then he would have existed before it, and therefore he does not need to have any size at all

Originally posted by eleveninches
If he created 'size' then he would have existed before it, and therefore he does not need to have any size at all

That's how I define infinite. He is beyond size, beyond limitations.

He is beyond size, beyond limitations

Originally posted by Ytaker
That's how I define infinite. He is beyond size, beyond limitations.

Saying he has infinite size implies that he has always had a size. If he invented the concept of sizes, he would be without any size at all

Saying he has infinite size implies that he has always had a size. If he invented the concept of sizes, he would be without any size at all

And this is a rather trivial point--does it really matter?

Originally posted by eleveninches
Saying he has infinite size implies that he has always had a size. If he invented the concept of sizes, he would be without any size at all

Yes, this is pointless. I'm dropping this argument. As a show of how pointless, I will delete my response to the without dimensions reply that was above.

You know, if I was Gandalf's brother, I would like to be a red wizard. 'Cause then I could have a red beard. Wouldn't that be AWESOME?

And I want a pet Balrog.

/spam off

ok, i haven't really been following God for that long now so i came here to try to answer some of my questions, and to help answer others questions if they were to ask me, i would like to start taking part in this conversation mainly to have the questions answered, about all i really know is these arguments have been going on for the past 2000 years and I'm trying to help alot of kids in my school with these questions. But even Satin asked Jesus a version of the question "can god make a rock to heavy for him to pick up." what satin asked Jesus is, if god had a divine purpose in this world, and Jesus was to throw himself off the cliff, wouldn't god catch him, Jesus's reply to this was "Do not tempt my father" what dose that quote mean

I have no clue, but here is what I would say if I belived in a god.
If god was omnipotent he could of course in that moment not create a stone ´that he couldn't lift but as he is god and omnipotent he could give up his omnipotence and wouldn't be able to lift some stone he created anymore.

OK, i done some thinking, and got with some friends, i think i have figured out an answer, not saying its right, to the question "can God make something he cannot destroy" for one your trying to compare two opposite things, Gods infinite power to destroy and his infinite power to create. the best answer me and my friends can think of is no, because how could you make something that has more power then all powerful.

Its a contradiction.

The suggestion violates omnipotence and therefore is illogical.

It is a paradox; Omnipotence does not exist.

You can not disprove something with a contradiction, that is illogical.

For instance, can he create something that is too heavy to life? No, the suggestion violates omnipotence. God will only do things that are in his nature.

The contradiction proves not that there is something wrong with the suggestion but rather that there is something wrong with omnipotence.

If omnipotence exists, all things are possible. If even one thing is impossible, then omnipotence does not exist.

Omnipotence has been whittled down bit by bit until there is very little left of the original concept. As more and more of it is removed in order to make it safe for logic and for god’ s other alleged attributes, we arrive at a position where there seems little point in continuing to use the term at all. Is god all-powerful or just very powerful?

The contradiction proves not that there is something wrong with the suggestion but rather that there is something wrong with omnipotence.

If omnipotence exists, all things are possible. If even one thing is impossible, then omnipotence does not exist.

The contradiction proves nothing other than a persons ability to try and make illogical statements to disprove something. That just doesnt work though, its an illogical premise.

Omnipotence isnt the ability to do anything you can conceive (as in illogical ideas), God will only do things that are in his nature.

Originally posted by Storm
Omnipotence has been whittled down bit by bit until there is very little left of the original concept. As more and more of it is removed in order to make it safe for logic and for god’ s other alleged attributes, we arrive at a position where there seems little point in continuing to use the term at all. Is god all-powerful or just very powerful?

Very powerful.

Originally posted by clickclick
The contradiction proves nothing other than a persons ability to try and make illogical statements to disprove something. That just doesnt work though, its an illogical premise.

Omnipotence isnt the ability to do anything you can conceive (as in illogical ideas), God will only do things that are in his nature.

om·nip·o·tent adj. Having the unlimited or universal authority, force, or power to do all things; all-powerful.

It would seem that omnipotence is the power to do all things. This means that if even one thing is impossible, then omnipotence is non-existent.

Violating omnipotence has nothing to do with having power though, its simply an illogical contradiction written up in an attempt to disprove something. The paradox is self-refuting and completely invalid.

We can agree to disagree on this point I suppose but you should see why such an objection can not work.

No, I don' t believe god can challenge himself.