And Lil B: You said the war you lived through ended 15 years ago? Which would make you 4 years old at the time? And that makes you an expert? Are you serious? Unless you held a rifle in your hands and ran into battle, you aren't in any position to act the way you are acting. And if you have run into battle, then consider my remarks void, and accept my apologies.no it was said that it hadnt even been 15 years ago the wars went on. Holding a weapon aint what deceide what kind of experience someone have during wartime
Finti knew, but as you said yourself, Finti is excelent at history. Mr Zero just makes remarks and prays to god they are correct. He seems proud of the fact he annoys so many people.
and btw- thanks for underlining my name, what with the underlining and the crown on my head, im feeling quite important at the minute 😱
Originally posted by WindDancer
Do you really sense that? It is obvious that there is some difference of opinions, but hatred towards Americans? No, I disagree.
I only sense that when poorly thought out threads like this are created by people other than Americans.
It's most certainly not hatred on an individual level, but more on a broad view. And I don't know if hatred is even the correct word for it...but it's a pretty general disliking of Americas views and ways of doing just about everything.
As for Lil B....what can I say....I love her!
She thinks I'm an ignorant American.
I think she's an arrogant Brit.
It's a mutual love! 😊
well....i hope she see's it that way. 😮
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Please, oh please for the love of god re-read this thread, then go research THEN come back and talk - you dont know what we're talking about, so keep me out of it.
Ok, so there was a war that lasted through most of the 90's.
That doesn't answer my question. Did you take up arms and fight in the war? If not, then you really don't have a more expert opinion than mine.
The question is rhetorical, you don't have to answer, but that doesn't change my statement. I'm pretty sure you did not take up arms when you were 15 or younger, seeing as no army in Europe would draft a 15 year old female in such a way.
You arrogance doesn't help your argument at all. I find this to be what's wrong with even semi-militant liberals and conservatives.
Originally posted by Linkalicious
I only sense that when poorly thought out threads like this are created by people other than Americans.It's most certainly not hatred on an individual level, but more on a broad view. And I don't know if hatred is even the correct word for it...but it's a pretty general disliking of Americas views and ways of doing just about everything.
As for Lil B....what can I say....I love her!
She thinks I'm an ignorant American.
I think she's an arrogant Brit.It's a mutual love! 😊
well....i hope she see's it that way. 😮
Yeah, Its like....with Ush but more vicious and bloody.
only sense that when poorly thought out threads like this are created by people other than Americanscare to elaborate that a bit further
That doesn't answer my question. Did you take up arms and fight in the war? If not, then you really don't have a more expert opinion than mine.and if she was a civilian with shells dropping down all around her?
War aint just people with arms there are somthing called those chaught in the middle too, civilians
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
The question is rhetorical, you don't have to answer, but that doesn't change my statement. I'm pretty sure you did not take up arms when you were 15 or younger, seeing as no army in Europe would draft a 15 year old female in such a way.
Actually the Bosnian war...if I'm correct...started in 1993. She would have been like...umm...8.
Obviously she didn't take up arms in that war, but I have to agree with her when she says she lived through it.
For example. If you lived in Baghdad...even if you were only a civilian...would you be a better authority on what's going on in the war than an American citizen that lives in the United States?
Originally posted by Linkalicious
Actually the Bosnian war...if I'm correct...started in 1993. She would have been like...umm...8.Obviously she didn't take up arms in that war, but I have to agree with her when she says she lived through it.
For example. If you lived in Baghdad...even if you were only a civilian...would you be a better authority on what's going on in the war than an American citizen that lives in the United States?
Oi, I know when to concede. She's got me on that point. Though, my father and his father were both in wars, so I'm not as ignorant as she thinks I am.
She didn't even address the rest of my paragraph though...
Originally posted by Darth Sauron
And i underlined the bits where the words were used in exactly the same way a few days ago 😊
In a lovely little thread called the 'we have no lives'Im attentive, arent i.
Sam would never mind me borrowing his thang, and he was right.
Second of all, you implied Zero was ignorant, and i absolutely fail to see how on did YOU manage to conclude that?
Is it in the same way you managed to conclude that German soldiers were given instructions to reproduce?
If you went back to any other war you would see countless atrocities, a thousand times worse than this current outrage in Falujah, its only due to the mass hysteria of the American media that something like this has been blown into an event.
Televising such a thing and making the massive spectacle of it that they has will lead to many more deaths of American soldiers. Your media is the the one that is guilty of murder.
I just wanted to comment on that incident that happend recently. News stations alike have been showing a Video tape of an American soldier entering a house of Iraqi citezens. A guy was playing dead next to his already dead wife. The soldier said somthing like "hey look, this guy is pretending to be dead" Then he shot him in the head and said " well, he's dead now" LOL LOL This isnt even the funniest part of the story. These soldiers diddnt know what was going on, they were called in after the raid was over, not knowing it was over. When the other squad of soldiers that were already there asked them what happend with those tanks that were shooting at them, The other soldiers answered dumbfoudedly, "what?" "those were the guys who told us to come here" LOL LOL LOL that is the greatest shit in the world. Tanks were shooting at these guys and they diddnt even know it, and they ordered them to go into a raid that was already over. I have to get that quote on a shirt. "well, he's dead now" That is some stanley kubrick shit.
Arachnoidfreak - still waiting for you to answer my question.. What a shocker.
Darth Sauron - ditto. Don’t expect to hear from you any time soon on that tho.
VPL at least had the good grace to back-pedal and say that he didn't mean what he said - that it's only people who badmouth generalising about ALL soldiers that need to STFU. (Tho apparently generalising about ALL soldiers saying they are brave lads doing a great job for freedom is perfectly ok: I don’t expect him or anyone else posting to understand that this invalidates the argument, but then it was a poor excuse for an argument in the first place)
Lets get something straight here: I don’t hate americans. The second answer in this thread was me telling the thread maker that I disagreed with the thread title, and that even when you do get a thug element in any army, its not just the american army that’s at fault.
I realise it's easier for most of you to ignore my opinions and pretend this is an argument about american bashing and saying "all American troops are evil men doing evil work" - because that allows you to wave a flag rather than construct a coherent sentence. That’s what irritates me most, and that’s why I end up in a self destructive post frenzy calling everyone names.
Just so we know: I am aware that I'm doing neither side of the discussion any favours by name-calling, and I will try to keep my frustrated rage to a minimum from now on.
I'm actually very sorry if my name calling distracted us from the real issue. However (in case you think I'm apologising for the wrong reasons - fear of a ban or something…) I still think the vast majority of you are dribbling idiots, but I'll try to hide it from you from now on.
So - we are all clear? I don’t hate americans, I don’t think ALL US forces are undisciplined thugs. I think that some of the troops (from all the "coalition" states) are amoral. To be a "good soldier" you have to be smart, and the fact is that not everyone in the army is smart, far from it because the army needs grunts, cannon fodder - and when you have a moron with a gun in a war zone - BAD STUFF HAPPENS.
All other political considerations aside, I don’t think that saying "the enemy does worse" is any kind of excuse for undisciplined behaviour, rules of engagement are clear - and any soldier that deviates from the orders they are given needs to be dealt with. Firstly because that’s how the army functions, but mostly because how the forces are perceived is what the entire nation is going to base it's opinion of americans on. You allow war crimes to go uninvestigated & unpunished you not only become the thing you fight - you give your enemy the ammunition to paint you as evil. You doom a new generation to grow up hating Americans. The exact thing that caused 9-11 in the first place, that’s my point: NEXT time (and its coming) you wont be able to say "why do they hate us so much?"
Lets face it, you should have known the first time round.
Here's an idea that seems to be popular round here. Anyone who didn't lose anyone they knew in 9-11 has to STFU about it. Anyone who's never spent time in a conflict zone needs to STFU about the subject.
Show of hands?
I've read the rest of these threads now (it took a while). A few things:
I am not American, British or even European. However, I see everyone's points despite the fact that these all oppose each others. I haven't lived through a war so I don't pretend to know everything. I think that PVS, Lil Bitchiness, Finti and Zero have good points though. First of all, PVS said he doesn't condone the war but he supports his troops. I can see the point in that. At least you're patriotic which is more than I can say for most people in my country. Lil B has lived through two wars. She has experienced it from a perspective not many of us has, which therefore makes her experience real. I kinda like Zero's perspective and Finti has a couple of important facts too.
Here's what I think. This war isn't worth it. I still don't understand the reasoning behind it other than that given by the US which has no justification. The media has fed us both pro-Bush and anti-Bush sentiments (in movies like Fahrenheit 911, The world according to Bush and so on). I still think it's unnecessary to blow up and assassinate civilians. I also know that not all Americans support Bush and his administration.
The bottom line is that no-one will ever agree on a war. We all come from different places on earth and therefore we all have different experiences and different frames-of-reference. Attack the situation, not each other.
I will never support this war or many others for that matter. What bothers me most is that this whole war started as an offshoot of Bush's war against terror. However, at that time Africa was going through one of its worst periods in history in the DRC, Rwanda and Zimbabwe. That too was terror but the US didn't step in there. What was done to the people in these countries is pure genocide, but no-one cared. Why? Because Africa isn't renowned for it's oil supply.
So my question is has anyone ever wondered about the capitalist basis of this Iraqi war? I certainly have. I've seen how Bush has said one thing and done another. I live on a continent plagued by AIDS and poverty and underdevelopment. Yet, we're not important enough to stand up for. As long as the war in Iraq continues, agenda-setting by the media will make us all believe that this is the only battle been fought. It isn't. It's sad and unacceptable. But there are other people who need fighting for as well.