Are American troops undisciplined thugs dressed as soldiers?

Originally posted by PVS
"...and god help you all for wondering why the East hates you enough to kill you in cold blood as you stare out your skyscraper windows."

i will not quote that again.

read your own words

PVS> Not to defend Mr. Zero, but I don't think he was saying anyone deserved to die. I think what he was saying was that he can understand why the terrorists WANT to kill Americans. I think he wants (and I can agree on this point) for people to understand the gravity of the situation. These terrorists didn't just decide to hate America. There's so much more at work here than just a difference of views.

America has been at work in the middle east for decades, cutting back-room deals and deciding the fate of people that do not subscribe to Americas point of view, much less it's sovereignty. We've killed them and they've killed us. I think maybe he's just saying there are two sides to every story.

Originally posted by PVS
"...and god help you all for wondering why the East hates you enough to kill you in cold blood as you stare out your skyscraper windows."

i will not quote that again.

read your own words

Yes. I find it baffling that the US doesn't understand that it's actions abroad promote hatred - and that hatred ends in terrible disaster.

Your "dont say anything bad about our boys" (no matter how foul the actions we see on TV and reported in the worlds press) only strengthens the perception of America as a nation who thinks of itself as both above reproach and not subject to the laws it purports to uphold.

You honestly need to look up what "gloating" means. And answer my other question... you know.. they hard one you've been ignoring.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
PVS> Not to defend Mr. Zero, but I don't think he was saying anyone deserved to die. I think what he was saying was that he can understand why the terrorists WANT to kill Americans. I think he wants (and I can agree on this point) for people to understand the gravity of the situation. These terrorists didn't just decide to hate America. There's so much more at work here than just a difference of views.

America has been at work in the middle east for decades, cutting back-room deals and deciding the fate of people that do not subscribe to Americas point of view, much less it's sovereignty. We've killed them and they've killed us. I think maybe he's just saying there are two sides to every story.

Bullcrap

You know its sad but true! - Metallica

Originally posted by Scarpa
thats crap 🙄

I actualy think he made a very valid point, almost every government will support some form of terrorism sooner or later

Scarpa try to behave plz

Originally posted by PVS
terrorism and covert ops are not one and the same.

shit, I hate this thread. I hate it because I AM against the war and I hate bush with a passion for putting our troops there, and causing the deaths of over 100,000 Iraqis and over 1000 u.s. troops.

and others here (not including you Capt_Fantastic, I just don't feel like making another post) are saying some pretty f**ked up shit and crying about freedom of speech. well sorry, but there is also things you should not say and do based on common sense.

I understand that terrorism and covert ops are not the same. But, if America was always justified in it's actions, then why would there be a need for groups with in our military to exist? I understand that a team of specially trained navy seals are needed to break in to some compound and blow up a ship that is scheduled to strike at American targets, or one of it's allies. But, I just want you to realize that that isn't all they're used for.

As for freedom of speech, freedom to exercise does not imply a tasteful execution of that right.

Originally posted by Fire
Scarpa try to behave plz

alright

Originally posted by Mr Zero
Yes. I find it baffling that the US doesn't understand that it's actions abroad promote hatred - and that hatred ends in terrible disaster.

Your "dont say anything bad about our boys" (no matter how foul the actions we see on TV and reported in the worlds press) only strengthens the perception of America as a nation who thinks of itself as both above reproach and not subject to the laws it purports to uphold.

You honestly need to look up what "gloating" means. And answer my other question... you know.. they hard one you've been ignoring.

you are just so educated, yet you completely misquote.

and please, with all due respect, stick your dictionary up your ass.
you know what you said, and you know how you meant it.
quit bullshitting me.

i refuse to be another prick spitting on all soldiers for the actions of a few.
my comments on STFU were aimed at the creator of this thread for generalising, just the way you generalise me a bleeting sheep. you obviously hate america in the way that you pigeonhole everyone. even micheal moore loves his fellow americans, and feels great sympathy for our troops as well as those nations being invaded by the bush administration.

Thx. Capt. and PVS ofcourse there is a big difference between covert ops and Terrorism but even so, governments (also the american government) have and will continue to, if needs be, support terrorism if they think it it useful

Originally posted by Scarpa
Bullcrap

You know its sad but true! - Metallica

Do you really want to do this again?

Originally posted by PVS
you are just so educated, yet you completely misquote.

and please, with all due respect, stick your dictionary up your ass.
you know what you said, and you know how you meant it.
quit bullshitting me.

i refuse to be another prick spitting on all soldiers for the actions of a few.
my comments on STFU were aimed at the creator of this thread for generalising, just the way you generalise me a bleeting sheep. you obviously hate america in the way that you pigeonhole everyone. even micheal moore loves his fellow americans, and feels great sympathy for our troops as well as those nations being invaded by the bush administration.

PVS I agree with a lot of Zero his thoughts yet I don't hate america let alone hate all americans (cause then I would be hating quite a few friends) I don't think he hates america.

couldn't we try to get this back on topic instead of biting at eachother all the time?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Do you really want to do this again?

No, I have better things to do that argue with

Originally posted by Fire
Thx. Capt. and PVS ofcourse there is a big difference between covert ops and Terrorism but even so, governments (also the american government) have and will continue to, if needs be, support terrorism if they think it it useful

well, the correct and winning point he should have brought up was that the CIA trained bin laden and warlords in afghanistan to conduct terrorist attacks. terrorism in every sense of the word.

see, i am aware of the u.s. government has supported terrorism and it makes me sick. i am think far to the left, dispite how others here have attampted to pigeonhole me.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
PVS, I quoted you on what you said about STFU, and you have told everyone to STFU, not the thread starter, shall i quote you again?

and i addressed that before lil b.
i stood corrected then an i shall stand corrected now.

i wish others would learn to swallow their pride and realise that they said something completely f**ed up, but i guess thats not going to happen.

Originally posted by The Tired Hiker
If you are saying that we should do away with the media, then people would get away with murder a lot more often than they actually do now. No one would know about it and then we'd all be ignorant. I can agree that the media may affect certain situations, i.e. Jeraldo Rivera blowing U.S. military stragety to the proposed enemy at that time, but I think the media is important. The average reporter and cameraman want to be as unbiased as possible. They are there to record information as a 'fly on the wall', so to speak, and to give the general public insight. People can turn off their televisions if they chose to. I am a news cameraman for a Salinas NBC Affiliate in California. I know more about the gang crisis in my backyard first hand, which is as good a war as any, than I do about this war. To an extent, I think you are right about the 'spectacle' aspect that the media may help induce, but to say that the media is guilty of murder, I think is incorrect. I'm not accusing you of saying that we should do away with the media, but if that is your standpoint, I think you are wrong. The media will do their job regardless, it is censorship that may be the enemy you speak of. Believe me, I shoot all kinds of stuff that is too graphic and would be illegal for me to air on television. As far as I'm concerned, me, my news director, my reporter, we would love to show it all 'as is', but there's a little group called the FCC that won't let us. They are controlled by the Federal Government of the United States of America. They are the ones who sifen the information gathered by the media. The video of the U.S. soldier killing an innocent person is what it is, the reaction of 'the people' is not the media's fault. As I said earlier in this thread, it's a war. F*cked up sh*t happens. That is why war sucks.

What i was saying with that is i believe that making a specatacle out of this, showing it all over the world and such is going to incite more Iraqis into anti-american feeling, pushing someone on the border of 'jihad' to commiting action against you guys.

It's unfortunate and if the soldier is culpable he should be charged, but like i was saying warcrimes and such have happened in every war in human history and the sensationalizing of this particular story is going to have a negative knock on effect for the soldiers in the field. It may cause less war crimes happening (good) but it may cause a solider to hesitate and get himself killed (bad) and it may also cause more Iraqis to fight against the occupation (bad) I think their should be a press, but i think they bungled badly by showing this footage. It should have been an internal army affair

Originally posted by PVS
well, the correct and winning point he should have brought up was that the CIA trained bin laden and warlords in afghanistan to conduct terrorist attacks. terrorism in every sense of the word.

see, i am aware of the u.s. government has supported terrorism and it makes me sick. i am think far to the left, dispite how others here have attampted to pigeonhole me.

Hey, don't think I'm trying to call you out, or to get people to bully you. You are correct in the sense that there is some measure of social pleasantries that have to be maintained in discussing this matter. When you discuss 9/11 with Americans, you have to understand that it's a subject that people feel strongly about in this country. And your opinion of the war in Iraq doesn't have to equal your view of the world trade center attacks.

ofc not and PVS the US did more, than train bin laden, to promote terrorism

Originally posted by Jerico
What i was saying with that is i believe that making a specatacle out of this, showing it all over the world and such is going to incite more Iraqis into anti-american feeling, pushing someone on the border of 'jihad' to commiting action against you guys.

It's unfortunate and if the soldier is culpable he should be charged, but like i was saying warcrimes and such have happened in every war in human history and the sensationalizing of this particular story is going to have a negative knock on effect for the soldiers in the field. It may cause less war crimes happening (good) but it may cause a solider to hesitate and get himself killed (bad) and it may also cause more Iraqis to fight against the occupation (bad) I think their should be a press, but i think they bungled badly by showing this footage. It should have been an internal army affair

Nothing wrong with that perspective. It's correct in all aspects.