By all rights, Superman SHOULD be more intelligent than Batman. I mean, he thinks in superspeed. If you're able to fight and move at the speed of light, your brain processes must be able to keep up with that. That means you should think at literally MILLIONS of times the speed of a ordinary human being. Superman should be super in every conceivable way, similar to how Superman was portrayed as a super-genius in Red Son.
The two smartest members of the JLA should be Superman and the Flash.
Originally posted by Lone-Wolfe
I believe intelligence and quick-thinking are two different things.
Sort of. Typically people call someone "intelligent" for a few reasons - because they can figure stuff out quickly (processor speed), because they have a specific mental talent, like art, music, etc. (programs installed), and/or because they know a lot (hard drive space). Having the ability to make decisions at light-speed should definitely make you unsurpassed in processor speed. So Superman should be a MUCH better thinker than Batman, and should be able to exhaustively anticipate everything Batman does in an instant even if Batman has a talent for strategy and creative thinking, like the way Deep Blue can overwhelm chess Grandmasters and all their tricks and talents with sheer brute force of calculations. In fact Superman and Flash, given their abilities, should be able to put the fastest computers in the world to shame with their thinking speed. They should certainly be more than a match for Batman, a normal human, in the thinking department.
But...I guess Batman has to be good at something, so...
Originally posted by nigel45
Well even if Superman is NOT as intelligent as Batman, that doesn't make him an idiot. I would think that Batman has him beat in cleverness and ruthlessness for sure, but they're both intelligent, and I don't know if Batman is significantly MORE intelligent, but he has other mental attributes that are probably superior to Superman.
Im sorry, but Batman has design everything pratically from all the gadgets that you see and also the all those High Tech Stuff in JLA show!!!
the poster "Never" can give you more insight on that. That is something that Superman was never seen doing anything of that sort of level
Originally posted by x_danny_x
Im sorry, but Batman has design everything pratically from all the gadgets that you see and also the all those High Tech Stuff in JLA show!!!the poster "Never" can give you more insight on that. That is something that Superman was never seen doing anything of that sort of level
Designing weapons and gadgets is one thing. It's useful, and it requires excellent mechanical thinking. That does not mean that someone who can make gadgets is more intelligent than someone who can't. I (sadly) quote the Breakfast Club: "I'm a ****ing idiot cause I can't make a lamp? ...what do you know about physics?". So what if Batman can make gadgets that Superman can't, that's practically Batman's "power", while Superman has others at his disposal. In all the battles that Superman has been in, do you think he's learned nothing? Not developed some strategies of his own? Learned what himself and others are capable of? For all this talk of Batman having plans to take down Superman, has anyone considered that Superman might have some plans of his own? He proccesses thoughts at light speed or close to it. He's never been bored and spent a minute or two thinking of a way to take Batman out? (by the way, that's a minute thinking at light speed, so it would really be quite a lot of thinking). Yeah people can call him a boy scout all they want, but hmm, what's the boy scout motto again? Oh that's right "ALWAYS PREPARED".
And don't use the JL cartoon as a basis of your opinions. I watch it and enjoy it, but I know it's total crap. And nowhere in it does it state that Batman "designed all those high tech stuff"
I suppose you did not see the episode where superman walking around the Justice league tower and said to batman DO YOUR STOCK HOLDERS KNOW ABOUT THIS? batman replies IT IS IN ORBIT ........(I don't remember what he said.) And this was just after wonder woman, John Steward, Martian Man-hunter, flash, and hawk girl just beat those aliens who came to turn earth in to a dinner table. (these aliens did not like sun light)
OK designing weapons, and gadgets are good enough how about designing a ship that can travel in water, air, and space. Or how about designing a Star gate. (A teleportter) or designing a gate to a different dimension's, where you can see the people in the other dimension's in real time.
Originally posted by nigel45
I (sadly) quote the Breakfast Club: "I'm a ****ing idiot cause I can't make a lamp? ...what do you know about physics?"
This your quote would have made sense if these was some other guy but it isn't this the batman who has made it his business to know everything. From acting to who knows what.
Thinking fast does not necessarily mean that you automatically become a genius. Because as it was said before thinking fast and intelligence are to different things.
Originally posted by MainstreamNo. One time Superman was talking to a mermaid for the first time and she spoke a different language. Superman didn't even know the language and with his superior mind, understood her in only a couple of seconds. Can Batman do that?
Superman a genius...nahhh above normal intelligence maybe...now Batman that's a genius dude.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
I suppose you did not see the episode where superman walking around the Justice league tower and said to batman DO YOUR STOCK HOLDERS KNOW ABOUT THIS? batman replies IT IS IN ORBIT ........(I don't remember what he said.) And this was just after wonder woman, John Steward, Martian Man-hunter, flash, and hawk girl just beat those aliens who came to turn earth in to a dinner table. (these aliens did not like sun light)
Actually, I have seen that episode and it appears that I remember it better than you do. Batman's reply was along the lines of "It was a line item in the Aero-Space research department". That's probably not the exact quote word for word, but that's the gist of it. Absolutely nowhere in it does Batman say anything about HIM designing the WatchTower, or anything in it.
"Thinking fast does not necessarily mean that you automatically become a genius. Because as it was said before thinking fast and intelligence are to different things."
Well, so are intelligence and the ability to make gadgets.
Did I say somewhere that Batman is not intelligent? If I did, please quote me and re-post it, because that would be a mistake on my part. Actually, I'll save you some time and just tell you that it doesn't exist.
All I was trying to do was disprove your theory that Batman's ability to make gadgets ALONE makes him more intelligent than Superman. Never did I say that Superman was indeed more intelligent, in fact, if i had to guess, I would say that Batman is the more intelligent one. Not to downplay Superman at all, but I don't think he is all around as smart as Batman. In fact, I would think that the difference in intelligence of these two is not enough to make it a huge factor in this battle. A factor maybe, but not the deciding factor.
I apologize, and agree on every that you made, I was under the impression that is from your post that superman is the more intelligent of the two. And I agree that being more intelligent is not going to be the deciding factor in who wins the match.
But batman is unique in this case because he has not being winning his fight through brought strength you know.
Agreed.
So far in this thread, I've seen alot of 'Batman would use this skill, Batman is better at this, yadda yadda' but not alot of explanation of how those ideas would lead to his victory. Can someone explain (in relative detail) how Batman is going to use his skills against Superman? I'm not saying he can't, I'm just leaving it to Batman supporters to help me understand their position a little better.
He can't. In the end, his ability to invent this or that has nothing to do with the very specific skillset necessary to do battle against Superman. In order to face someone with so overwhelming a physical advantage, you'd have to be a strategic mastermind who can completely outthink and outmaneuver the enemy. But Superman FIGHTS at lightspeed, which means he THINKS at lightspeed, which means that there should be nothing Batman can think of that Superman can't anticipate a thousand times over. In the space of a second, Superman would come up with 10,000 different battle scenarios to Batman's 10 or so. It shouldn't even be a contest, really.
Superman should have Midnighter beat at his own game, much less Batman. I just can't see how Batman could beat a Superman who's genuinely trying to beat Batman.
Originally posted by demigawd
He can't. In the end, his ability to invent this or that has nothing to do with the very specific skillset necessary to do battle against Superman. In order to face someone with so overwhelming a physical advantage, you'd have to be a strategic mastermind who can completely outthink and outmaneuver the enemy. But Superman FIGHTS at lightspeed, which means he THINKS at lightspeed, which means that there should be nothing Batman can think of that Superman can't anticipate a thousand times over. In the space of a second, Superman would come up with 10,000 different battle scenarios to Batman's 10 or so. It shouldn't even be a contest, really.
You are speculating that since as superman can move at light speed he can also think just as fast. That is OK. But in the 10,000 different scenarios that superman will come up with, batman's 10 will still trump his. For one reason batman's mind is more deciline. As that he trained his mind and body to physical perfection. Superman can go through the 10,000 diffrerent scenarios but he still has to choose one that will work now doesn't he against one of batman's 10.
AND ONE MORE THING SUPERMAN DOES NOT FIGHT AT LIGHT SPEED,
IF SO YOU ARE TELLING US THAT SUPERMAN JUST BECAME THE SECOND FLASH? RIGHT!!
Even if superman's mind was trained and decline batman's scenarios would still trump superman's.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
You are speculating that since as superman can move at light speed he can also think just as fast. That is OK. But in the 10,000 different scenarios that superman will come up with, batman's 10 will still trump his. For one reason batman's mind is more deciline. As that he trained his mind and body to physical perfection. Superman can go through the 10,000 diffrerent scenarios but he still has to choose one that will work now doesn't he against one of batman's 10.AND ONE MORE THING SUPERMAN DOES NOT FIGHT AT LIGHT SPEED,
IF SO YOU ARE TELLING US THAT SUPERMAN JUST BECAME THE SECOND FLASH? RIGHT!!Even if superman's mind was trained and decline batman's scenarios would still trump superman's.
First of all, Superman is sort of a second Flash and you people are insane. How can 10 scenarios beat 10,000? Within Superman's 10,000 I am sure there would be at least 1,000 that could top his. C'mon he has more effective options if he can process 10,000 different plans. Let's be realistic here.
Agreed - while Batman's talent for strategy may give him an effective battle plan with less thinking, it's completely overwhelmed by Superman coming up with an equally or more effective battle plan just by sheer force. It's like, as I said before, a chess grandmaster vs. Deep Blue. The grandmaster can think more creatively and more efficiently than Deep Blue, but that's equalled and usually trumped by the sheer number of calculations Deep Blue performs. Grandmasters put up a good fight against Deep Blue, but they still almost always lose. Multiply Deep Blue by several thousand and you'll have an idea of what Batman is up against.
AND ONE MORE THING SUPERMAN DOES NOT FIGHT AT LIGHT SPEED,
Yes. He does. At least when he's so inclined.
IF SO YOU ARE TELLING US THAT SUPERMAN JUST BECAME THE SECOND FLASH? RIGHT!!
You'd be hard pressed to find someone else who disagreed with that.