Originally posted by Valharu
Again you miss the point. My last 2 posts have ripped wholes in your arguments. You have proof of DD taking Logan out. As ridiculous as that is. How many times are you going to use that one page?1.2.5.7.100 times? Are you going to scan the page where DD is in a nelson? HMMM.
And you still haven't explained how DD is quick enough to sense Wolverine strike and yet be quick enough to land a blow even after moving later than Logan. Where does it say Dare Devils reflexes are quicker than Logans?
Do you understand what I'm saying? And I'm using Logans enemies as proof that if you don't kill him the first time, you never will. I assumed you would have picked up on that by the tone of my letter. Logan learns. Thats why hes a SURVIVER. Go for the throat once, lesson learned. Go for the throat twice, as Logans said before, your lucky your costumes red!
Originally posted by Tshern
Jrodslam, gotta like your posts. It's nice to argue with people who produce well-written text.
Thanks mate.
Originally posted by Tshern
That sounds like Spidey is a better target than Daredevil, and in this case, worse at dodging attacks.
It was said that Wolverine tags Spidey easy and because he does so, that means hed tag Daredevil with no problems at all. I was simply stating that Daredevil tags Spidey just as easy as Wolverine does. Thus makes no difference. Sorry if i wasnt clear to you on that.
Originally posted by Tshern
That's one thing I'd like to point out. What if Logan goes to berserk state? His heartbeat changes completely and he's rushing with full adrenaline. Daredevil probably wouldn't be able to predict his movements and then he's knee deep in trouble.
Whenever Logan disides to do a move, the heart would jump. Even if Logans already pumped with adrenaline, his heart would still jump when hes about to execute a move. Remember that Daredevil can hear the slightest change in beat.
Originally posted by Tshern
Spidey gets the warning earlier (sometimes he even has time to change his whole outfit) and because he moves faster than humans and even sees world in kind of a slowmotion he has time to find out what the danger is.
In instances where they are together, DD's senses tell him exactly what the danger is while Spideys just goes off. There have been a couple of times where DD's went off first.
Originally posted by Tshern
So yes, the senses are different, but due to Spidey's other abilities he's able to compensate and still he is getting hit on a regular basis. All of this is arguable since there hasn't been an explanation for this yet, at least not in the comics. Right?
I guess. Everyone knows heroes that should have the upperhand are always getting tagged in battle. Just to make things more interesting. Flash, DD, Spidey etc. Thats why here were talking full-potential right?
Originally posted by Tshern
Yet he was able to hit Wolverine only once and couldn't evade Wolverine's charge towards when X played with his ball and chain. Wolverine also hits him to the face before it is stated that Wolvie is in berserk state.
So Wolvies 1 hit without being beserk is suppose to mean what?
Originally posted by Tshern
As you said, Mister X's battle recognition happens throughs mind reading, but I think it's even better than radar sense. He knows exactly where people hit BEFORE the strike is even started. DD knows that there is going to be a hit, but doesn't know where before the punch is already on its way. That's one asset of subconscious mind scanning.
I wouldnt say its better thanradar sense. If i knew my mind was being read, id clear it and just fight through emotion. Try not to think about the move but just do it. Much like Wolverine did. Daredevil does know where the punch is going to hit by going off the momentum of the punch plus already knowing that its going to be thrown. Thats why hes able to roll with punches so well. You can clear you mind all you want but your heart and muscles will always give you away.
Originally posted by Tshern
Wolverine has faced dozens of brilliant martial artists, many of which probably know nerve point strikes, but still they haven't put Logan down using those. Logan has been shot through so many nerves that I don't even think it has an effect on him. If DD somehow manages to paralyze a limp, Wolvie's healing factor just repairs the nerve. Plain and simple.
Im not saying Wolvie hasnt faced opponents who know nerve point strikes, but how many of them actually used them in battle against Wolvie? Ive heard that Elektra has even done so. Ive said before in previous posts that the move DD does that last an hour would probably only last 1/4 the duration due to Wolvies healing factor. If DD does a move that puts Wolvie down for 10-15 minutes, does that not count as a victory for Daredevil? Does he have to be down for for a hour or more to qualify as a lost? I doubt it.
Originally posted by Tshern
Sorry that I can't provide any scans with this sort notice, but thanks for your scans. They were really elaborate. Your turn.
Its cool man. Took me a while to get a scanner myself. Next. 😄
Originally posted by Tshern
You're so right with this one. Why can't cool guys like Doom, Sinister and Juggernaut win at times?
Did you understand my post? Note i said "The good guys is gonna win MOST of the times and lose sometimes." I never said bad guys never win. Hell, Sabes has beat Wolvie before. Red beats Wolvie. 😄
Originally posted by Tshern
What if heartbeat remains constant, at maximum level?
Even so, if your about to do something like make an attack, it would still jump regardless of the speed of the beat. Even if your nervous and your heart is beating fast, if you lie, it would still jump.
Originally posted by Tshern
That's quite true. Wolverine has been able to hit Quicksilver and Speed Demon and so forth. DD can't evade forever.
Indeed. I agree that DD cant evade forever, but its not like he wont take the offensive also.
Originally posted by Tshern
But yeah, I'll call it for tonight. It's a late evening here in Finland and I'm tired as hell, a tough weekend behind me. I'll catch you both up later.
Have a good one.
One more post then.
Even so, if your about to do something like make an attack, it would still jump regardless of the speed of the beat. Even if your nervous and your heart is beating fast, if you lie, it would still jump.
Did you understand my post? Note i said "The good guys is gonna win MOST of the times and lose sometimes." I never said bad guys never win. Hell, Sabes has beat Wolvie before. Red beats Wolvie. big grin
That's very true. But when do bad guys win the final fight? Of course they have some part-time victories, but almost no eventual victories.
Originally posted by Tshern
Still DD has no idea what Wolverine is going to do. He might take a step to right or lay an uppercut on DD. That's one of the problems.
Or so one may think. Thing is DD knows whats coming. In a comic, DD can roll with the blows making them less effective. Full potential comic, DD wouldnt get touched.
Originally posted by Tshern
That's very true. But when do bad guys win the final fight? Of course they have some part-time victories, but almost no eventual victories.
When do bad guys ever win the final fight?
Wolverine takes the majority here. If your only arguement is that DD can't be touched if he goes full potential, than you're making a big mistake. Even if he doesn't go full potential every time, why would he allow himself to get hit? Even if he was holding back, like you have said, why would he just stand around and LET somebody just punch him in the face? You'd think that even though he wouldn't want to fight anybody, he'd still not want to get hit! Unless DD has some kind of fetish with getting hit in the face. 😆 BTW, during the fight between Spidey brainwashed and DD, you said that Spider-man was bloodlusted. Knowing this, why would DD ALLOW himself to get hit? He should know that if he got hit in the face by Spider-man at Spidey's full strength, his face would literally turn into mush! Yet, Spider-man hit him square in the face. DD didn't LET himself get hit in the face because he was "holding back." The reason he got hit in the face was because he COULDN'T dodge it. DD getting hit is not because he allows it. It's because he couldn't stop the blow. It'd just be a matter of time before Wolverine hits him square in the face. Hell, he's hit Quicksilver. They only difference between other people hitting DD in the face and Wolverine is that he has CLAWS on the end of his fists. DD's head would literally turn into an oversized shikabob. END OF STORY!
The thing is, Daredevil's not stupid enough to just keep evading Wolverine and never go on the offensive. He would get in his good hit to Logan (nerve strike) before Logan ever got the chance to get in his good hit to Matt (fatal slash).
The fact is, Daredevil's agility and reflexes have been shown to be on par with Spidey's (not equal, just on par) and Wolverine's no Spider-Man. DD's blocked bullets with absolute ease so dodging or striking Wolverine won't be difficult.
Someone once listed off the opponents that Wolverine has faced. What I would like to ask is, have any of them actually ever used a pressure point technique against Wolverine? I'm not asking if any of them are capable of it, but have any even tried? If not, then that doesn't help the argument against the infamous nerve strike.
DD's still a force to be reckoned with, even when injured. He's beaten Bullseye when he had a broken arm. A fews slashes here and there is NOT going to make him faint.
IF Wolverine can get in a fatal blow, then sure, he can win; but that's a big IF. Daredevil's not going to stand around waiting for Wolverine to strike. Instead, he would attack before Wolverine got the chance to use his hack-and-slash method of fighting and attack a pressure point, a place that's vulnerable no matter how hard Logan's bones are. Sure Wolverine would heal from it faster than a normal person, but AT THE VERY LEAST, he'd be stunned long enough for DD to finish him off or to be lying down for a 10-second count.
Well, Wolverine has dodged bullets before. If we are talking about FULL potential Wolverine as well, then we are talking about the Wolverine that can dodge bullets with ease. You think Matt would hit Logan as easily as your saying? I highly doubt it. Wolverine also has enhanced reflexes too. Jrodslam is making it seem like one hit very quickly would end the fight. The fight definitely wouldn't end like that. At the very best for DD, he could take him the distance and this would be one HELL of a fight filled with martial arts skills etc. But in the end, Wolverine stabs DD or slashes a major vein in DDs body and that would be the end of it. And I don't think Wolverine would get hit with a nerve strike either. He knows Matt and he knows that Matt fights with nerve strikes and things of that nature. With that in mind, Wolverine would look out for that and would dodge his attacks. Plus, nobody seems to have mentioned that Wolverine also has a major reach advantage over DD. Ya know, with his claws and all? Anyway it'd be MUCH more dificult for DD to get a hit on Wolverine than the other way around. That advantage alone makes this fight inevitable that DD loses.
A longer reach doesn't mean anything if you can't touch your opponent. Wolverine has enhanced reflexes, yes, but they aren't as good as Daredevil's reflexes.
While Logan may have dodged bullets before, Matt has friggin blocked them before; meaning he's managed to anticipate a gunshot and then display fast-enough reflexes to bat away a speeding bullet, which is much harder to do than dodge imo.
It's DD's superior reflexes and agility that will allow him
to strike Logan where he needs to. And he doesn't HAVE to strike Logan in the throat. There are plenty of other vulnerable spots on the human body and Logan can't block them all. Daredevil would be able to predict Wolverine's moves, not the other way around.