FF4 VS these 4 xmen i chose

To Alpha Centari :

You obviously ignored the excerpt because you would know that she PSYCHICALLY manipulates ambient cosmic energy. Concussions and telepathy have nothing to do with each other. The forcefields would not protect her from psychic illusions, psychic manipulations, telekinetic control or any other psychic attack. Your argument is very flimsy. You haven't proven that her forcefields can protect against all forms of telepathy. You've only said that "concussive" forces cannot penetrate her shields

The X-Men don't need to find the FF4. Jean can psychically sense their presence, Iceman can just adjust his sight to read temperatures and Kurt can use his enhanced senses to hear or smell them.

The FF4 would put up a good fight, but they would lose.

The X-Men wins.

Originally posted by Draco69
Psylocke didn't read his mind. She plunged her psychic dagger into his head. Apparently her psydagger was able to penetrate Jugg's helmet.

Really?

wait wait wait, you just say that it would end in a stalemate, and just because you say so, the fantastic 4 win?

Huh. I was referring to the battle between Juggs and Psylocke, Beast and Bishop. It's either a result of the Crimson Dawn or most probably a writer's screwup. If Xavier can't read Juggs mind, then Psylocke certainly can't.

Stalemate = FF4 wins.

Yeah, right.

"The forcefields would not protect her from psychic illusions, psychic manipulations, telekinetic control or any other psychic attack. Your argument is very flimsy. "

Stop saying the forcefields wouldn't protect her from psychic offense without proving why. You've never heard of a psionic concussion? I suggest you read some more comics involving telepaths. When a mind numbing bolt is used to knock out an opponent, it's a psionic concussion. If mind powers (telepathy, telekinetics and psionics) have no way of penetrating her field due to her being resistant and untouchable to any kind of concussive force whilst inside them, how is Jean or Xavier having any effect? Answer: They aren't.

"The X-Men don't need to find the FF4. Jean can psychically sense their presence, Iceman can just adjust his sight to read temperatures and Kurt can use his enhanced senses to hear or smell them."

How can she sense their presence? Sue would have them all protected by an individual forcefield (which she is capable of). So psychic power would have no effect. Outside influences don't work so how you think Ice-Man can all of a sudden see someone who's protected by a forcefield AND invisible, is silly. As for smell, hahaha. How's he gonna smell through a forcefield? Be real.

"The X-Men wins."

No, they do not. If you believe they do, start proving it. Coz right now, you're not doing anything to prove me wrong besides saying "She can't", "He can".

"Stalemate = FF4 wins. Yeah, right."

I never said this. At all.

"wait wait wait, you just say that it would end in a stalemate, and just because you say so, the fantastic 4 win?"

What in the Hell? Go and read my post please. I gave you a realisation of a scenario you mentioned. You asked what would happen if the F4 couldn't attack while inside a forcefield. I said, if they can't attack out, and the X-Men can't attack in, what will happen? F4 would have taken away any form of attack the X-Men can use. It would be a stalemate.

I THEN said, The F4 outclass the X-Men. NOT connected to the above statement. I said it in closing.

Read my posts.

-AC

"Stop saying the forcefields wouldn't protect her from psychic offense without proving why. You've never heard of a psionic concussion? I suggest you read some more comics involving telepaths. When a mind numbing bolt is used to knock out an opponent, it's a psionic concussion. If mind powers (telepathy, telekinetic and psionics) have no way of penetrating her field due to her being resistant and untouchable to any kind of concussive force whilst inside them, how is Jean or Xavier having any effect? Answer: They aren't."

Alpha. You HAVEN'T proven that telepathy can't penetrate her forcefield. The statement above is inviable. In fact all of your arguments are inviable.

However I have some shred of evidence that Sue Storm is vulnerable to telepathy: Psycho Man. Psycho Man utilizes a device that PSYCHICALLY manipulates one's emotions and MENTALLY controls them. Psycho Man turned the Invisible Woman against her teammates. Despite her forcefields the device worked on her anyway. She turned into Malice and attacked the FF4 members. (Fantastc Four #287) Thus proving that telepathy can go through her forcefield and nullifying any of you prior arguments.

The X-MEN Win.

"Alpha. You HAVEN'T proven that telepathy can't penetrate her forcefield. The statement above is inviable. In fact all of your arguments are inviable."

Now that we've concluded you don't like the truth, but have clearly admitted it inside somewhere:

Fantastic Four #287 where Dr.Doom poses as the Invincible Man? Coz Psycho Man isn't in that issue.

After digging through my comics, I found something.

Malice is an entity, comprising of Sue Storm's dark side that she left over from the Infinity Wars. She appeared first in "Jungle Action #8". She wasn't spawned by Psycho Man.

-AC

"Now that we've concluded you don't like the truth"

What truth? You have NO EVIDENCE. Jeez!

My apologies (damn betas) I looked it up again and found it was actually in Secret Wars II #2.

That's another Malice. (There's lots of Malices)

"My apologies (damn betas) I looked it up again and found it was actually in Secret Wars II #2."

You're looking on the net? Not actually reading the comics? Weak man, very weak.

"What truth? You have NO EVIDENCE. Jeez!"

You literally ignored my whole post on telepathy and Sue's shields. Just called it inviable for no reason other than you don't like it.

-AC

who is we? Isn't it just you?

Alpha :

I don't own every comic known to man. Get off your lazy butt and go find a synopsis of the comic. I know you are just ignoring the argument above because you know you are wrong

I've read your arguments. It makes no sense. You are equating telepathy as a concussive force. It's not. It's mind manipulation, psybolts, mental domination, etc. Your argument has no validity. No evidence, no issues, no prior engagements, nada. Just some bull rhetoric that if Sue can block concussive blows than telepathy can also be blocked.

Give up, you've lost. You been reduced to ankle biting. And that is WEAK "man".

"I don't own every comic known to man. Get off your lazy butt and go find a synopsis of the comic. I know you are just ignoring the argument above because you know you are wrong"

I own the comic.

If you have to search on the net for knowledge of people purely so you can debate against them, that's rather sad and it proves you were basing your assumptions up until now, on nothing. For the record, Psycho-Man does it with help from the Beyonder, THE BEYONDER. She was already weakened.

Also, this was back in 1985+. In 2000 and after she has become one of the single greatest forces in Marvel, pick up a comic. I never stated that she had always been as strong as she is now, as powerful. I never said she hadn't ever been affected by mind-powers. NOW, as we keep on referring to NEW Colossus and NEW Ice-Man, NEW Sue Storm is not vulnerable to telepathy and even in Secret Wars II #2, she was weakened.

"You are equating telepathy as a concussive force. It's not. It's mind manipulation, psybolts, mental domination, etc. Your argument has no validity. No evidence, no issues, no prior engagements, nada. Just some bull rhetoric that if Sue can block concussive blows than telepathy can also be blocked."

If someone receives a concussion due to a Psybolt.......what is it? Not a concussion?

Shhh.

I never lost, nor was I ever going to. To quote a Radiohead song:

"You do it to yourself, yo do. And that's what REALLY hurts."

-AC

"If someone receives a concussion due to a Psybolt.......what is it? Not a concussion?"

What?!?!?!? This statement alone belies your intelligence. You obviously have no knowledge of telepathy whatsoever.

"NEW Sue Storm is not vulnerable to telepathy"

Again no evidence whatsoever.

Psycho-Man : http://www.anzwers.org/free/pier4/pyshco.html (Yes its a website get over it. )

The FF4 loses. And yes I've won. I just like to kick them when they're down.

Uh...

Anyway, I still feel the X Men Team will win. Iceman and Torch don't exactly cancel eachother out.

Sue is powerful, but all she really does is create solid light constructs that bend light and make things 'invisible', but there are other ways to detect someone who bends light. Like say, if it was raining, snowing, or foggy and she had an invisible bubble around her, you'd be able to see the rain, mist, or snow collecting on her force bubble.

Also, mind reading and mental bolts are different things, and either way, they would be able to pass through solid light. Jean may have trouble using telekenisis on Sue, but not telepathy, and also, Nightcrawler could teleport hisself and Iceman inside the bubble and back when Jean pinpoints Sue's position, and Iceman could flash freeze her.

As I said, I'm pretty sure there is a Fantastic 4 simulation in the Danger Room, so they more than likely have already trained for scenarios in which their powers, working in conjunction, could take down the 4.

Colossus is a better hand to hand combatant than the Thing. He has martial arts training, countless hours training in the Danger Room, and training from Wolverine.

Grimm has heart and a catchphrase.

He'll learn how to say "Don't mess with the X-men" in Russian.

Mr. Fantastic is extremely smart, but when someone can read your mind and know what ingenius plans you're forming before you put them in motion, it cancels that out. Plus, his elasticity makes him very brittle when frozen. Brittle enough to shatter.

Sue is the strongest member of the 4, but she'd spend more time defending herself than attacking in this situation.

Against Nightcrawler, all he'd have to due is continuously teleport and smoke up the area, then look for the 'invisible' bubble standing out in the cloud of smoke. Teleport inside, snap Sue's neck;

light's out.

As for Human Torch, he'd pose the biggest challenge. If his flames can exist in outerspace in a complete vacuum, I don't think an arctic blast from Bobby will do much.

But, fire is no protection from telepathy.

"What?!?!?!? This statement alone belies your intelligence. You obviously have no knowledge of telepathy whatsoever."

Answer the question. You believe telepathy does not equate nor apply to concussive force. Concussive being derived or in relation to "Concussion". So if someone is knocked unconcious by a psybolt, is it NOT a psionically induced concussion?

"The FF4 loses. And yes I've won. I just like to kick them when they're down."

No you haven't and I'm about to prove the very fact that you are making up stuff as you go along. Lest we forget, you get your info from websites to back you up and were arguing, until you found that site, with nothing but opinion. It struck me as odd when reading the comic, your link proved it.

The Bio of Psycho-Man as posted by Draco, with reference to Secret Wars II #2: "The Hate-Monger even used its powers on Susan Richards, the Invisible Woman of the Fantastic Four, twisting her love and compassion into hatred, and dispatching her to destroy her teammates in the guise of Malice, Mistress of Hate."

YOUR Quote: "Despite her forcefields the device worked on her anyway."

Device? Despite Forcefields? No device was use and no forcefields were bypassed. I was looking through the comic thinking "Wait a minute.......where's the forcefields and this device Draco spoke of?"

Answer: It's not there. Neither were the forcefields. So junior, you can go by that little website, I'm gonna go by the actual comic.

Once again, you seal your own fate by showing your IMMENSE lack of knowledge.

-AC

"Like say, if it was raining, snowing, or foggy and she had an invisible bubble around her, you'd be able to see the rain, mist, or snow collecting on her force bubble."

Aha, so it proves that ice, frost, rain etc cannot get into the bubble. Only show it up. Which I have never denied, but thanks for proving my point that Ice-Man's powers are while VAGUELY useful, ultimately irrelevant.

" Jean may have trouble using telekenisis on Sue, but not telepathy, and also, Nightcrawler could teleport hisself and Iceman inside the bubble and back when Jean pinpoints Sue's position, and Iceman could flash freeze her."

Nice theory but lest we forget that there are 3 other extremely powerful (one is a herald, as we're going by NEW) team members to deal with. How do you deduce that Nightcrawler or Ice-Man are gonna be allowed to get close enough to perform such a manuever? Hmm? Jonny Storm would have performed a Supernova by that time. Colossus, Jean and anyone else with them would be dead. Especially Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler. All Reed would have to do is wrap himself around Nightcrawler's head. No vision, no teleportation. So let's assume Ice-Man is the last one left, what is he gonna do if Torch burns all the moisture out of the air? He has 4 members of the Fantastic Four to deal with. He's dead.

"As I said, I'm pretty sure there is a Fantastic 4 simulation in the Danger Room, so they more than likely have already trained for scenarios in which their powers, working in conjunction, could take down the 4."

Yes, coz the X-Men train to fight fellow heroes don't they? What an illogical and ridiculous statement. Tsk tsk.

"Colossus is a better hand to hand combatant than the Thing. He has martial arts training, countless hours training in the Danger Room, and training from Wolverine.

Grimm has heart and a catchphrase."

And a fearless nature, and much more strength....oh and higher durability. Colossus is of no consequence when Torch gets through with him.

"Mr. Fantastic is extremely smart, but when someone can read your mind and know what ingenius plans you're forming before you put them in motion, it cancels that out. Plus, his elasticity makes him very brittle when frozen. Brittle enough to shatter."

If the X-Men by your rationale, are allowed to have the addition of a "Fantastic Four" training sim. I'm gonna make an equally large assumption, Mr.Fantastic has a database on all the X-Men and therefore has a plan to protect himself against them. How about that? If the X-Men get advantages that most likely do not exist, so do the F4.

"Sue is the strongest member of the 4, but she'd spend more time defending herself than attacking in this situation."

This is of course before she possibly suffocates any number of them by putting a bubble over their heads. Reed would have warned her against Nightcrawler, seeing as you seem to like "Would have"s. So she'd know what to do. This is of course, assuming Torch hasn't deep fried them.

"Against Nightcrawler, all he'd have to due is continuously teleport and smoke up the area, then look for the 'invisible' bubble standing out in the cloud of smoke. Teleport inside, snap Sue's neck;"

Again, another blatant assumption that the X-Men are gonna some unimaginable amount of free time to zip around and do all this stuff. The Fantastic Four are gonna be fighting back, incase you didn't know. It's not gonna be as simple for the X-Men who have significantly less power, to jump around and do all this stuff.

"As for Human Torch, he'd pose the biggest challenge. If his flames can exist in outerspace in a complete vacuum, I don't think an arctic blast from Bobby will do much.

But, fire is no protection from telepathy."

And Jean Grey's skin is no protection from a million degree Supernova.

Lest we forget, he's a cosmic herald.

-AC

The bio is NOT in reference to Secret Wars II #2 but in fact a prior engagement ( if you have the comic you would know this.) : Fantastic Four #280.

"So if someone is knocked unconcious by a psybolt, is it NOT a psionically induced concussion"

All you've been saying is that Sue's forcefields protect her from psybolts. Answer this : Can Sue's forcefield protect her from mindreading? Can it protect her from mental control? Can it protect her from having her memories erased? Can it protect her from being induced to sleep? Can it protect her from mental domination and thusly engaging her to attack her teammates? Can it protect her from seeing things that aren't there, or suddenly going blind? If so, back it up with EVIDENCE (actual this time). You still have not proved that Sue's forcefield renders her immune to telepathy. You are skipping around this issue entirely. The "concussion" argument is pathetic. A psybolt gives someone a concussion? Your knowledge of the X-Men and telepathy is lacking to say the least. A mental attack from Jean had people puking and defecating at the same time.

And you still haven't proven exactly HOW the FF4 wins. I have. You haven't.

Once again, you've been proven to be a nymphomaniac with clever wit but hollow argument.

"Lest we forget, he's a cosmic herald."

And Jean Grey is the all-powerful Phoenix. If you wanna go that way be my guest. The FF4 still lose.

My "IMMENSE lack of knowledge" still got me into an Ivy League school. 😆

He has a point. If Johnny gets to be a herald, then Jean should be allowed the Phoenix Force, meaning she has telepathy, telekenesis, matter manipulation, and pyrotechnics on a cosmic level.

She'd be able to take the 4 alone, especially if she went dark...