Originally posted by Draco69
Psylocke didn't read his mind. She plunged her psychic dagger into his head. Apparently her psydagger was able to penetrate Jugg's helmet. Onslaught is Xavier on rampage. He still has Xavier's telepathy.
Actually, she did read his mind through his helmet later in the series, X-Men #53. And, in my opinion, the psyblade, or anything psychic, should not be going through anything that's psychic-proof.
"The bio is NOT in reference to Secret Wars II #2 but in fact a prior engagement ( if you have the comic you would know this.) : Fantastic Four #280."
You quoted a Fantastic Four comic, I asked you if that was it, you said "No, Damn betas. Secret Wars 2 #2". Make your mind up.
"Can Sue's forcefield protect her from mindreading? Can it protect her from mental control? Can it protect her from having her memories erased? Can it protect her from being induced to sleep? Can it protect her from mental domination and thusly engaging her to attack her teammates? Can it protect her from seeing things that aren't there, or suddenly going blind?"
I have covered all these though. Her shields cover her from telepath, as proven when Psycho-Man had to use the device on her when her shield was down. You sent me the link to Secret Wars #2 reference. You pointed it out, coz you believe, and stated, that he took her out when using her shield. You stated an F4 comic first, when I corrected you, you said "Sorry, Secret Wars 2 #2". I've proven everything you've asked me to look at is BS. When you start reading the F4 comics. Come back here rather than continually quoting off the net.
"You still have not proved that Sue's forcefield renders her immune to telepathy."
You haven't proved she is. Touche.
"You are skipping around this issue entirely. The "concussion" argument is pathetic. A psybolt gives someone a concussion? Your knowledge of the X-Men and telepathy is lacking to say the least. A mental attack from Jean had people puking and defecating at the same time. "
Again: If you knock someone one and they are concussed, with a psionic attack, that would make it a concussive force attack, delivered by mental, telepathic or psionic powers. Prove me wrong. You can't coz it's a fact.
"And Jean Grey is the all-powerful Phoenix. If you wanna go that way be my guest. The FF4 still lose."
She isn't in current comics, you're giving her that to help you. Johnny Storm IS actually a herald in current comics. So it's Storm the Herald Vs Jean Grey. This is so enjoyable the way you just spout off what you believe to be true from sites and encyclopedias, then believe it to be a suited match to my comic knowledge.
"And you still haven't proven exactly HOW the FF4 wins. I have. You haven't."
You've said how you think they will win, as have I. Mine are based on the characters in the comics now, yours aren't.
"If Johnny gets to be a herald, then Jean should be allowed the Phoenix Force, meaning she has telepathy, telekenesis, matter manipulation, and pyrotechnics on a cosmic level."
I'm not giving Johnny anything that he doesn't currently have. He is.
All this based off the fact that your (Draco) FF knowledge is reduced to websites. Read the F4 comics now and recent, understand how powerful they are when compared to the 4 in this thread, now, and then you will be taken seriously.
-AC
actually once her defences are up she is greatly invulnerable to telepathy and psi attacks, operative phrase being "once her defences are up." she can definitley be taken unawares by pyschic or ppl with pychic devices
to go back a little, Colossus was on the cusp of CL100 b4 he died, in astonshing X men he definitely is past that, for reading between the lines he kind of intimated that ord's alien tech did something to him plus the fact that he's been spending the better part of 5 years going thru rigorous isolated training. also, some one expressed it nicley when they said the thing would brawl it out.
albiet a small one, but i think thats the thing that would give peter the advantage cuz last time i checked the baxter building doesnt have a danger room,(well they probably do but thing isnt a guy who likes to stay at home and work out when there are hot dogs out there to be eaten). Also, i think ice man and torch would be somewhat of a stalemate, and not just for obvious reasons but becuase if you check the ratio they both can control residual moisture down to a molecular level even tho bobby has the more profound ability to do so. on a side note tho johhny has been shown removing all the ambient heat from an object and leaving it a frozen block of ice but that wouldnt factor in at this moment. johhny wouldnt be able to use his nova blast cuz it would deplete his reserve of energy and that would take him outta the fight, even NC would be able to wail on him at this point.
so as it stands regardless of how strong he now is peter is gonna be busy w/thing, torch and iceman are gonna try to out do each other, especially since on their respective teams they are always the young brash immature ones, so thats a pissing contest right there.
the other most suitable matchup is jean and sue. since Sue's ability while activated makes her massively impervious to mind attacks, i guess it would have to boil down to telek. Sue doesnt have true telekin. but the way she wraps force bubbles around objects certainly mimics it. i really feel bad about leaving NC outta this but i dont see what purpose he could serve to this battle, IDK maybe he could bamf and punch to throw them off balance.
lastly i am a bit concerned that reed would just figure everything out and come up with a way to win, like giant pimp slaps or smothering them with his body or something. so i guess id have to go with FF on this one. and thats not based on who they have faced in the past either.
Manjaro nailed it like Van Helsing.
While the X-Men can have Jean Grey and her mind powers, Nightcrawler and his teleportation, Ice-Man and his powers and Colossus and his, there really isn't much THEY have that's gonna give them the win.
F4 have far more avenues than the X-Men do.
The one thing I disagree with is Torch and Ice-Man becoming a stalemate. I honestly don't see how he's gonna hold a Galactus herald who, if future issue synopsi's are any indication, now has the powers of Sue Storm also. Or maybe they replaced his powers, either way:
Torch and Sue: Unimaginable might.
Torch with Sue powers and Sue herself: Double that.
Torch minus fire. plus Galactus bestowed Sue powers: Almost as frighteningly powerful.
The X-Men are just outclassed and outpowered.
-AC
Originally posted by Draco69
"So if someone is knocked unconcious by a psybolt, is it NOT a psionically induced concussion"All you've been saying is that Sue's forcefields protect her from psybolts. Answer this : Can Sue's forcefield protect her from mindreading? Can it protect her from mental control? Can it protect her from having her memories erased? Can it protect her from being induced to sleep? Can it protect her from mental domination and thusly engaging her to attack her teammates? Can it protect her from seeing things that aren't there, or suddenly going blind? If so, back it up with EVIDENCE (actual this time). You still have not proved that Sue's forcefield renders her immune to telepathy. You are skipping around this issue entirely. The "concussion" argument is pathetic. A psybolt gives someone a concussion? Your knowledge of the X-Men and telepathy is lacking to say the least. A mental attack from Jean had people puking and defecating at the same time.
I think it was issue Fantastic Four #286 where Jean was disoriented from her hibernation (placed by the Phoenix) and went somewhat offensive against the Fantastic Four and Avengers. She managed to levitate everyone with the exception of Invisible Woman who remained unaffected via a force bubble she created around herself. When Jean attacked her, Invisible Woman created another force bubble around Jean and her influence on the FF and Avengers were negated (they all fell on the floor). Jean tried to react through the bubble, but it proved ineffective and she surrendered.
I'm unsure of the true limits of the current Jean, but the former could do little against Invisible Woman. My view, the fight would be strongly decided on who is the winner or loser based on these two and not so much on the others.
"i never said torch isnt current torch"
I don't see any X-Man overcoming a herald.
"I'm unsure of the true limits of the current Jean, but the former could do little against Invisible Woman. My view, the fight would be strongly decided on who is the winner or loser based on these two and not so much on the others"
Sue Storm's powers didn't miraculously stay the same. She recently because one of the most powerful females in the Marvel Universe, greatly invulnerable to mind attacks while protected in her bubbles. The only chance a psychic etc has is if they catch her with her shield down.
Danger Room or not, Reed will probably know more about the X-Men than they do by the time they arrive.
The Fantastic Four just have way more ways of winning and way more things at their disposal than the X-Men.
-AC
"Sue and anyone else within her forcefield are protected from concussive force. "
Yes, concussive FORCE. Telepathy is not a concussive FORCE, it can cause concussions, but her shield wouldn't protect her from telepathy. Iceman, in a similar way, would be able to get his mental commands through to freeze Sue and then freeze Thing, and then feeze Mr. Fantastic, and then freeze Torch. He can get to absolute zero,.
"She isn't in current comics, you're giving her that to help you. Johnny Storm IS actually a herald in current comics. So it's Storm the Herald Vs Jean Grey. This is so enjoyable the way you just spout off what you believe to be true from sites and encyclopedias, then believe it to be a suited match to my comic knowledge."
Jean IS the Phoenix. More specifically she's the White Crown Phoenix. If Torch gets to be a cosmic herald then Jean gets to be the Phoenix. Jean isn't really dead. She just transcended to a higher dimension.
And thank you Sentinel Boy, Alpha foolishly believes that telepathy is a concussive force. Idiot.
"Yes, concussive FORCE. Telepathy is not a concussive FORCE, it can cause concussions, but her shield wouldn't protect her from telepathy."
You just said she's protected from concussive force, which causes concussions. Telepathic bolts cause concussions, yet her shield wouldn't protect her from telepathy? Hahahahaha.
"Jean IS the Phoenix. More specifically she's the White Crown Phoenix. If Torch gets to be a cosmic herald then Jean gets to be the Phoenix. Jean isn't really dead. She just transcended to a higher dimension."
What do you mean Jean IS The Phoenix? No she isn't. The Phoenix is a guardian who bonded with Jean Grey. Hahaha. "If Torch gets to be a cosmic herald, Jean gets to be Phoenix."
You don't seem to understand that Torch is actually a herald, right now in the comics. You would know that had you READ THE COMICS. Jean is not Phoenix now, she's dead or "transcended" as you call it.
"And thank you Sentinel Boy, Alpha foolishly believes that telepathy is a concussive force. Idiot."
Mind bolts are, mind power. Which includes telepathy.
Referring to disses now? Tsk tsk. Kid, read comics before debating against me.
-AC
Read the New X-Men storyline: Jean is the Phoenix. When she died she became the White Crown Phoenix amongst an army of Phoenixes. And since she's dead and in this fight, we most use the most recent version of her.
Mind bolts isn't just telepathy. You are once again skipping around this issue.
"Can Sue's forcefield protect her from mindreading? Can it protect her from mental control? Can it protect her from having her memories erased? Can it protect her from being induced to sleep? Can it protect her from mental domination and thusly engaging her to attack her teammates? Can it protect her from seeing things that aren't there, or suddenly going blind?"
You've failed to answer these. You just berated my so-called inferior comic knowledge, "Kid".
"Mind bolts isn't just telepathy. You are once again skipping around this issue."
I never said it was JUST telepathy. Mind bolts don't come from your elbow, they come from the mind. If someone is concussed with a mind attack, it's a psionically or psychically induced concussion. Concussive force applied with mind powers. If you need it explained more, school might be a good idea. I mean actually going.
"You've failed to answer these. You just berated my so-called inferior comic knowledge, "Kid"."
Well, can Sue's forcefield protect her from mindreading?
Yes.
Can it protect her from mental control?
Yes.
Can it protect her from having her memories erased?
You're recycling the same question. When he shield is up she is greatly invulnerable to ANY mind powers.
Can it protect her from being induced to sleep?
Unless Jean or anyone plans to read her an incredible boring story, she isn't gonna be touched by psychically induced sleep.
Can it protect her from mental domination and thusly engaging her to attack her teammates?
Seeing as Psycho-Man had to wait for her to drop the shield, yes.
Can it protect her from seeing things that aren't there, or suddenly going blind?
How is anyone gonna be able to do that with her shield up?
She is resistant to mind powers of any sort when her shield is up. You can twist, turn and recycle them all you want. Same applies.
Your comic knowledge is actually very limited, otherwise you wouldn't be asking this stuff. You rely upon the internet (not the comics in which the characters you are attempting to discuss, exist) to provide you with info. That is never gonna be able to top my knowledge from the actual comics.
Put the website down and back away from the slaughter. I don't like kicking dead corpses but if you wanna continue, fun for me.
-AC