** The MISUNDERSTOOD Religon **

1. To start thsi whole thing off, Isreal was premtively formed without the consent of the Arab League (UN's fault, but really starts off the conflict).

2. Isreal kidnapps/arrests legitimate and elected members of other nations governments.

3. Isreal uses targeted assassination policies, without trial or any check of power to kill however and whomever they wish. They have put explosive cell phone batteries in cell phones and then call the person to detonate the bomb.

4. Isreal has and still is occupying foregin nations against UN resolution to withdrawl.

That doesnt even include any Lebanon conflict.

Originally posted by Alliance
1. To start thsi whole thing off, Isreal was premtively formed without the consent of the Arab League (UN's fault, but really starts off the conflict).

2. Isreal kidnapps/arrests legitimate and elected members of other nations governments.

3. Isreal uses targeted assassination policies, without trial or any check of power to kill however and whomever they wish. They have put explosive cell phone batteries in cell phones and then call the person to detonate the bomb.

4. Isreal has and still is occupying foregin nations against UN resolution to withdrawl.

That doesnt even include any Lebanon conflict.

Israel was created for the purpose of preventing another holocaust. Both groups knew that the ladn was given to the Israelis by god. Both groups knew that the Arabs were the ones who ran the israelis out of Israel however many years ago. No one ever said the Palestinians couldn't co-exist with israel and in fact the arabs were given part of Jerusaleml because its important to islam.

Now about the occupying of territories and assassination policies and what not. First of all I don't know about that explosive cell phone thign so if you can provide me a link for that i would ove to read about it. If everyone in the middle east hated you and wanted to you to cease existence, you can't tell me that you would not want a buffer zone to prevent yourself from being attacked. look at the sixday war, the yom kippur war, and the other war that i cannot think of at the moment. the countries just lined up and attacked israel. Now why do you think israel would make these exlosive phones, if they were made. Obviously countires or people threatening there existence would be most liekly targets.

Israel has never been an offensive country, except for the current situation with hezbollah, which they have every right to do. They are one of the strongest military powers in the world and they could take over half the middle east if they wanted to. If the arab countries would leave them alone, there would not be problems there right now.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Israel has never been an offensive country, except for the current situation with hezbollah, which they have every right to do. They are one of the strongest military powers in the world and they could take over half the middle east if they wanted to. If the arab countries would leave them alone, there would not be problems there right now.

They certainly weren't offensive in the bible 🙄

Isreal was created to have a Jewish state. That area of the world is holy to ISLAM, Judiasm and Chirstianity. It is not owned by ONE religious group.

Divine "promise lands" have no weight in political matters. An alternate location for Isreal was in Brazil, where NOBODY was. Isreal was established in 1947. The Arab league was not happy with the porposal, feeling that it would pushe too many people that had been living there for centuries out of their homes. They felt it would create tension. Guess what. It did.

When the UN passed the 1947 UN Partition Plan, Isreal did not comply. Jeruselem itself was to be under UN control, to avoid major conflcit. That didnt work out either. The Arabs totally rejected the partitioning of the British Mandate of Palestine. They feared forced conversion, which was rational as it was the practice of amny jewish businesses at the time to only lease land to jews and to only hire jews. Arab Muslims were evicted if their land was purchased. There was also European-Middle Eastern conflicts about what land ownership was. Thus war broke out.

The cell phone incident was the Yahya Ayyash assassination. Targeted Assassination is an official policy of Isreal. Even thier own air force hs expressed resignatio nabout enforcing the policy. It often involves "precision" bombing (killing the target and 40 other people around him)...but often involves more espianoge like the Ayyash assassination. IT is used by Isreal to take out "threat" that they deem too dangerous to take out....like 73 year old blind parapalegics like Ahmed Yassin. It involves no trial, no checks and balances.

Maybe a buffer zone would be a good option, but its not Isreal's place to bomb one into existance. They have no right to invade foreign nations, assassinate, and kidnap elected officials.

(underlined topics are official polcies/people, searching for information on those will yeild results. If you really want sources, I can give them to you. However, I encourage you to be unbaised and find your own. 🙂 )

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Israel has never been an offensive country, except for the current situation with hezbollah, which they have every right to do. They are one of the strongest military powers in the world and they could take over half the middle east if they wanted to. If the arab countries would leave them alone, there would not be problems there right now.

Isreal has been offensiv ein the past. The current situation in Lebanon is a total disaster that ISreal mothered. They have no righ tto do anything they are currently doind.

Having power does not give you authorization to use it. THeir power comes from the US...The Arab people know that when they bomb Lebanese civilian....they know where those bombs come from. THis conflict does nothing to help any situation and the US is gettinf dragged into a war by an insane state with no sense of self control.

Originally posted by Alliance
Isreal has been offensiv ein the past. The current situation in Lebanon is a total disaster that ISreal mothered. They have no righ tto do anything they are currently doind.

Having power does not give you authorization to use it. THeir power comes from the US...The Arab people know that when they bomb Lebanese civilian....they know where those bombs come from. THis conflict does nothing to help any situation and the US is gettinf dragged into a war by an insane state with no sense of self control.

Hezbollah took 2 civilians so hyes they ahve every rigth to pursue there recovery. its the fundamentalists that have the problem, not Israel. yes the power was provided by the Us, but if they ddint have the military power they wouldnt exist. They dont intentionally bomb lebanese civivlians, but in a war like this civilion casulties are invevitable. These arab countries need to control the fundamentalists because if the help them then their is no love loss and israel has the right to protect itself even if it means civilian casualties. I dont think lebanon has enough control over there own country so its unfortunate that it had to come to this.

Originally posted by maham
n if they all call me watever they do,that's ok!? How unfair!

Anyway, alliance, why is it not ok to attack a country that has been consistantly violating your sovreignity and killing your citizens for twenty years?

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Hezbollah took 2 civilians so hyes they ahve every rigth to pursue there recovery. its the fundamentalists that have the problem, not Israel. yes the power was provided by the Us, but if they ddint have the military power they wouldnt exist. They dont intentionally bomb lebanese civivlians, but in a war like this civilion casulties are invevitable. These arab countries need to control the fundamentalists because if the help them then their is no love loss and israel has the right to protect itself even if it means civilian casualties. I dont think lebanon has enough control over there own country so its unfortunate that it had to come to this.

This answers questions by both of you.

I wasnt aware that naval blockades, military invasion, and destruction fo all civilian infrastructure was helping to get those soldiers back.

Isreal could try a little diplomacy, that woudl go a long way. When you bomb apartemnt buildings, civilians die. Apartnents aren't military targets. Its almost like Isreal wants to take as many lebanese as they can.

Lebanon has a government that is just over a year old. If they tired to reign in Hezbollah, a civil war waould start, Lebanon, which has no military power PROVIDED for it, would fall and Hezbollah would take complete control of the government. Is this a better scenario? No.

You must forget that Hezbollah formed in response to the Israeli OCCUPATION of Lebanon. Since they are the only entity that is currently fighting Israeli invasions, who knows how much power ISREALS actions are going to give them this time. Maybe they will win complete control of Lebanon anyway, just like with Hamas in Palestine.

Bombing the sh*t out of Lebanon is not going to help you get soldiers back, it fact it seems to me to be making every situation worse. What Isreal did is beyond defending herself, its a declaration of war agains whomever, wherever, whenever, no matter how many civilans or soverign nations are in the way.

Isreal has no right to redefine nations becuase they don't feel there is enough control. Isreal should be all out supporting the Lebanese government (actually a moderate element). Let the UN handle weak governements. Isreal occupies foregn territories and make military incursions just as much as the terrorists do.

I support Isreal a lot, because of situational histories, but everyday this goes on and Isreal step up military action, my support eroedes tremendously. This type of violence is exactly what Syria and Iran want to see and it will do nothing but breed more hatred and terror and provide eveidnece about how belligernat Isreal can be. NO ONE except for islamic extremism is going to win in thsi conflict, and that is what hurts me the most.

israel regularly killes hundreds of people in palestine and takes many as prisoners, i dont see any1 starting all out war there against israel under what would be a genuine pretext. this whole SAVING soldier thing is a bullshit scam, an excuse. the new president a strong practicing nutter jew{evident from his recent adresses to the nation} who wants to claim the HOLY land under and pretext. not any better than the nutter muslim terrorists. fn idiots.

Originally posted by Alliance
This answers questions by both of you.

I wasnt aware that naval blockades, military invasion, and destruction fo all civilian infrastructure was helping to get those soldiers back.

Isreal could try a little diplomacy, that woudl go a long way. When you bomb apartemnt buildings, civilians die. Apartnents aren't military targets. Its almost like Isreal wants to take as many lebanese as they can.

Lebanon has a government that is just over a year old. If they tired to reign in Hezbollah, a civil war waould start, Lebanon, which has no military power PROVIDED for it, would fall and Hezbollah would take complete control of the government. Is this a better scenario? No.

You must forget that Hezbollah formed in response to the Israeli OCCUPATION of Lebanon. Since they are the only entity that is currently fighting Israeli invasions, who knows how much power ISREALS actions are going to give them this time. Maybe they will win complete control of Lebanon anyway, just like with Hamas in Palestine.

Bombing the sh*t out of Lebanon is not going to help you get soldiers back, it fact it seems to me to be making every situation worse. What Isreal did is beyond defending herself, its a declaration of war agains whomever, wherever, whenever, no matter how many civilans or soverign nations are in the way.

Isreal has no right to redefine nations becuase they don't feel there is enough control. Isreal should be all out supporting the Lebanese government (actually a moderate element). Let the UN handle weak governements. Isreal occupies foregn territories and make military incursions just as much as the terrorists do.

I support Isreal a lot, because of situational histories, but everyday this goes on and Isreal step up military action, my support eroedes tremendously. This type of violence is exactly what Syria and Iran want to see and it will do nothing but breed more hatred and terror and provide eveidnece about how belligernat Isreal can be. NO ONE except for islamic extremism is going to win in thsi conflict, and that is what hurts me the most.

Diplomacy with hezbollah is non-existent. I understand the fact that lebanon is not a strong govt and has a weak military. They were put in a very difficult position and your right that if they tried to stop hezbollah it woudl become civil war. The fact is no country in the middle east is going to help israel. Fundamentalists don't care about the lives of the Israeli prisoners and they instigated Israel into doing this. Now from what i've read in the news, all targets that Israel has hit were intelligence-based targets where hezbollah was located or known to be. If civilian infrastructure is helping hezbollah out, then yes it needs to be dismantled until the soliders are returned. Military invasion has not begun yet, only bombing of the targets. Now you mentioned bombing the crap out of lebanon won't do anything. There is no other solution though. Like i said diplomacy doesnt work with terrorists, letting terrorism work by meeting demands is simply not an option, and as far as I know the UN has not done much, but discuss this so far. These people need rescued and there isn't enough time for debate on this issue. if israel let somethign like this go then this would continue to happen, and more people would be abducted or kidnapped or whatever. They have to show force and let the fundamentalists know that they aren't fulling around and this will not be tolerated at all.

This feud is never going to end. As long as Israel remians a military power with the aid of the us and the arabs stay muslim, they will never co-exist peacefully.

yeah, diplomacy requires GOVERNMENT. lebanon hasn't had anything even resembling central authority for a long time.
leonheart, you're full of shit.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
yeah, diplomacy requires GOVERNMENT. lebanon hasn't had anything even resembling central authority for a long time.
leonheart, you're full of shit.

Isreal occupied the country for a long time, as did Syria.

FINALLY! Syria f*cks up and assassinates Hariri, international pressure pushes Syria out. We have elections! A non Syrian govenrment is elected! Lebanese are starting to take control!

...and then...

Isreal invades (yes there was provocation), Hezbollah becomes the hero, the only ones capable of standing up to Isreal AGAIN.

Isreal doesnt get it. hezbollah FORMED as a result of Isreali occupation. Do they think ANOTHER occupation is going to solve the problem?

My prediction: Next election (assumig there is anyone left in/anything left of Lebanon to have an election) Hezbollah takes a clear majority of the parliment and the PM. THEN Isreal will have something to worry about. And it will all be becuase Isreal couldn't contain its response to the kidnappings.

Results: Moderate Lebanese, Isreal, and the US all lose. Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas are all BIG winners.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Diplomacy with hezbollah is non-existent.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
I understand the fact that lebanon is not a strong govt and has a weak military. They were put in a very difficult position and your right that if they tried to stop hezbollah it woudl become civil war.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
The fact is no country in the middle east is going to help israel.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Fundamentalists don't care about the lives of the Israeli prisoners and they instigated Israel into doing this.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Now from what i've read in the news, all targets that Israel has hit were intelligence-based targets where hezbollah was located or known to be.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
If civilian infrastructure is helping hezbollah out, then yes it needs to be dismantled until the soliders are returned.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Military invasion has not begun yet, only bombing of the targets. Now you mentioned bombing the crap out of lebanon won't do anything. There is no other solution though.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Like i said diplomacy doesnt work with terrorists, letting terrorism work by meeting demands is simply not an option, and as far as I know the UN has not done much, but discuss this so far.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
These people need rescued and there isn't enough time for debate on this issue. if israel let somethign like this go then this would continue to happen, and more people would be abducted or kidnapped or whatever.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
They have to show force and let the fundamentalists know that they aren't fulling around and this will not be tolerated at all.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
This feud is never going to end. As long as Israel remians a military power with the aid of the us and the arabs stay muslim, they will never co-exist peacefully.

The fact that you would even demnad a religious conversion is sickening. All religions are welcome in that region and your dream of a monolitic Jewish regime is EXACTLY what started this fewed in the first place. Co-existance is certainly possible but let me tell you this. It will demand three things: PATIENCE, CONCESSSIONS, and DESIRE. Right now ISREAL's govenrment has yet to express any of those qualities.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
What massacring? If your talking about the Lebabnon thing, News flash! Hezbollah took two israeli hostages. Since when is fighting the terrorist organization that has your citizens bad? The Iranian president has already stated the holocaust never happened. Thats enough to say hes crazy. All he wants is the destruction of Israel along with the terrorist he funds. Those people hate israel more than they love god and their own people alike. Israel has only ever tried to just exist. They are a peaceful nation terrorized my violence on a daily basis.

First of all, all of this specific targeting of civillians is crap. there are unintended civillian casualties in every conflict and none of this would be happening if israel's neighbor's just left them the **** alone and if the Palestinians grew some balls and maybe...oh, i don't know...actually did something smart like protest peacefully or cap arafat or not get duped by a bunch of mobsters like Hamas. The fact is that Israel has tolerated incursions and outright attacks on it's sovreignity for years whereas any other country (cough, cough, russian federation) would have rolled over and crushed the shit out of any aggressors. Now they're in this fantastic rut where other nations can fire rockets on them at any other day, but when Israel retaliates, everyone cries about the collateral damage as if the attack was unprovoked or like it's some act of aggression. Shit, if Israel surrendered tomorrow, you would see the largest massacre in that are since the first crusade. Do you really think the mother****ers shooting the rockets would leave anyone in Israel alive? Do you think any of the Middle East's problems would be solved by slaugtering Jews?
If I were in Israel's position I would actually show I was serious about this. I would detonate an E-Bomb over Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Iran. Knock out the power of a few princelings for a month and see how they like it.

Just to be clear before any opportunists decide to twist this around-
an E-bomb is a high impact explosive that detonates in the upper atmosphere creating an electromagnetic pulse. this knocks out power in a localized area but does not actually kill or hurt anyone.

also, I have no problems with Islam or Muslims. I just have a problem with dickholes with guns who are too stupid to realize their being manipulated and people who hate my ethnic group.

Specific targeting of civillians is a fact, and it is true not only for Lebanon but Palestine too. Protest peacefully wouldn't do a sh!t when they slughtered entire villages for not leaving. And now you speak of them as of noble people who protect their land, all this wouldn't happen if they were not killing inocent people, and they do it not accidently but for fun and with pleasure and there are many examples, you suggest palestinians to leave Israel alone while jews kill their realtaives for no reason. Just like I said, Isralians ARE terrorists, the only difference is that they have choice not to blow themselves but to blow palestinians from the distance. People elected Hamas because they are desperate, you would do the same if somebody invaded your land, treated you and your relatives like dogs and almost all world supported them. I never approve killing inocent people but that's what isralians wanted and started, so let it be so.

wow mr. "russian federation". do you get your facts from the oligarch run media?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
wow mr. "russian federation". do you get your facts from the oligarch run media?

No, I'm taking my facts from people that were there when it all happened, and among those people there were my grandfather and grandmother. Like it or not but Jews were slaughtering entire villages, killing inocent people and raping women with only one purpose - to make people run away. I bet you wont find it in their hystory books.
And one more thing, you have some kind of problems with russian federation? or is it just me?😬