Superman vs. Shazam! ( Captain Marvel)

Originally posted by Juntai
Not pulling punches and going all out are different in a sense. Superman DID NOT EVER go all out against Black Adam.
There's a difference of say, in a fight--- not pulling my punches against you, and showing you how well I can jab...... as opposed to tackling you and slamming your face into the concrete 350 times with all my 210 pounds, plus momentum.

How many of those fights you named was Superman even in control???
Through the course of the Crisis and leadup, he was influenced by Maxwell Lord and Psycho Pirate. Eclipso against CM..
He wasn't exactly fighting as Superman would, in fact, his whole mentality was off when he fought Diana. He thought Manchester Black killed Lois, and didn't act a thing like that.

Dont put superman on a pedistal good lord. dropping BA in 1 shot.

In case you guys didnt notice the original reason why the crisis happend and the de-powering happend was due to the fact that characters were so overpowered like supes that they were not worth writing about no more.

Ya supes farts and the galaxy explodes, ya supes takes one second to run from one part of the univers to the other side.

This is stupid. And this will not sell comic's. People compare black adam martian manhunter captian marvel and supes sometimes..

If they ever make supes so powerful again that he one shots black adam. Ill never pick up another comic. No mortal should ever be that powerful thus the reason for the power downs.

Now as far as turning his back on supes. Guys think about it. D.C. does this crap all the time lol you guys just copntiune to argue about it and micro analize what happens in theses comics. In that partiular issue Junti black adam and supes both fought black adam warned supes to back down and he didnt. There fore BA hit him. By the end of the fight supermans out fit was torn apart his cape was shreded and supes was rageing. Black adam had, not a tear in his clothing, not a single bruise. Not even a bead of sweat on him. And supes was swinging like there was no towmorrow BA didnt even want to fight, he warned supes to back off and he didnt. BA saw a nasty punch coming and supes was not speedblitzing BA could have just side stepped the punch. BA just got under supes skin all the more. BA is just to popular to be man handled by supes like that. Captian marvel and black adam are alot more popular then alot of supes fans believe.

This was yet another stalemate by both of them. Do i think that supes could one shot black adam and kill him. Yep if D.C. wants to. Do i think BA could one shot supes and kill him. Yep if D.C. wants to. Do i think they will ever let this happen. Nope becasue that will be horrible writing and considering the feats superman and BA have been in it would be a mistake. Captian marvel and BA actually generate respect in the world of comics and D.C. knows this. They are not destroying 2 of their best guys. I didnt see supes fighting the specter after shazam died. D.C. is smart and they are spreading the attention to other toons and not putting all their eggs in one basket (superman) Captian marvel and BA get more and more recognition all the time that alot of superman fan boys think should go to supes. This is just to bad. this is also a good thing.

Weather that punch would have killed BA i highly doubt it but i bet it would have knocked him out. Supes with black adams mentality is even more dangerous then black adam. But they will never let him rage openly like Black Adam it will destroy the very character they everyone has come to love. Superman.

Against BA?
As soon as Supes said he was going to end it.. . suddenly someone didn't want to try going tangling anymore. Supes even gave the comment that leads one to believe he was about to drop BA in one shot.

Originally posted by MattDay
captain marvel has always been a little less than superman and always will be becaues thats how they started out... see why he never will because it never started out that way guys... stop with the supes bashing

Bingo you hit it right on the head.

as far as the supes bashing 90% of the people that bash supes like supes. they are just tired of the superman fanboys that esculate superman to beyond god levels. To the brink ok absourdity.

they have a supermanprime thread claiming SP can beat galactus and a whole mess of other gods at the same time.

This is what pisses off people anymore its not superman.

The respect thread for superman was just annihalated with hate post, for the same reason.

Superman rocks hes just not GOD. like some people make him out to be.

As for people in trhead who have imlped KC CM < KC SM due to metahuman warhead killing CM

i think they are wrong as CM says shazam three times and is obviously billy when it explodes

besides power girl dies from the blast , had superman been closer he may of died too

and the KC superman is more stronger and durable version(due to years of absorbing sunlight radiation) who was getting hurt by CM

furthermore King marvel were shown empowered at the time and isnt their power dervied from CM , making him weaker during his fight with SM and not at 100 %

Originally posted by zeel
as far as the supes bashing 90% of the people that bash supes like supes. they are just tired of the superman fanboys that esculate superman to beyond god levels. To the brink ok absourdity.

the opposite is actually true.

Originally posted by zeel

Superman rocks hes just not GOD. like some people make him out to be.

you're right...God can't do half the shit that Superman does.

Originally posted by ankur29
As for people in trhead who have imlped KC CM < KC SM due to metahuman warhead killing CM

i think they are wrong as CM says shazam three times and is obviously billy when it explodes

besides power girl dies from the blast , had superman been closer he may of died too

and the KC superman is more stronger and durable version(due to years of absorbing sunlight radiation) who was getting hurt by CM

furthermore King marvel were shown empowered at the time and isnt their power dervied from CM , making him weaker during his fight with SM and not at 100 %

The people who said KC CM < KC SM are wrong simply because KC Supes said in a later comic that Captain Marvel was the mightiest of them all, the metahumans.

Anyone who read the fight saw that CM had the advantage in all the categories, just that Luthor's mind control hindered his own combat judgement, which kept him from stopping that silly strategy of calling down the lightning and simply sidestepping it a bit to let it hit supes.

Supes eventually mustered enough will to grab CM before he could step out of the way and thus the lightning hit him and turned him back into Billy.

That's a very hollow victory for Supes fans seeing that he was getting his ass beat the entire fight and later confirms that even if he wasn't trying to reason with CM that CM was still his superior.

In Supes' own words as seen above: "The mightiest of us leapt up to grab it before it was upon us"

KC CM > KC Supes.

Anyway if properly written (without CIS) Captain Marvel should beat Supes narrowly but comfortably. I'd say 65/100 times.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Was Superman trying to harm Billy? That's something to think about.

Superman beats CM 6/10. CM is fast but he is nowhere near the speed of Superman as can be proven by the lack of feats.

speed of lightning :

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=justice19005cl7.jpg
Catches flash(barry allen):

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/17/scan10061vc2.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...0062joinmw8.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...can10064xu6.jpg

Superman and CM return back earth from the sun(looks like they are flying fast):

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice01006rb3.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...e1213006sx5.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice21006yo8.jpg

takes care of a handful of villians at superspeed

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice06005ys0.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice07005do8.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice08005fk7.jpg

speeds off before BIZZARO can get back and luthor can teleport:

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice09005zg9.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...ice10005fl6.jpg

Shazam kills Stupidman

Just like KC supes is superior to current SM, KC CM is superior to normal CM due to him being an adult. Because I beleive the older Billy gets the more powerful he is when he turns to CM IIRC

Superman is physically stronger then Marvel.

KC Superman has defeated KC CM even though he wasn't going all out, or trying to kill him, only reason with him.

Superman going all out is can defeat CM going all out. 7/10 Superman

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman is physically stronger then Marvel.

KC Superman has defeated KC CM even though he wasn't going all out, or trying to kill him, only reason with him.

Superman going all out is can defeat CM going all out. 7/10 Superman

Yeah he beat him but look how he did it and physically stronger that's your opinion. This will always be a good fight I just think CM would win IMO.

Originally posted by D-Block
Yeah he beat him but look how he did it and physically stronger that's your opinion. This will always be a good fight I just think CM would win IMO.

Superman was handling pretty nicely with his HV and he wasn't going all out. He was trying to REASON with him, and calm him down. HV was having an effect on Cm, but he called on SHAZAM about 4-5 times until Superman caught him and allowed him to hit his own thunder.

Without calling forth the spell(Shazam), Superman will beat him because he has more powers to call all(HV, FB,..etc). AND we all know, once's CM starts shouting Shazam, he always finds himself transforming into his mortal form.

That's a bullshit assumption that Captain's 'magic aura' has an effect on Superman's abilities.

Marvel's magic powers simply power him to superman levels. Superman is vulnerable to magic but it's not a 'weakness' that tones him down like a red sun.

Also the Captain Marvel is more durable than Superman. The Captain can take shots from high level magic that would kill Superman.

Strength? Marvel has stalemated Superman in arm wrestling contests.

Speed? Where has he demonstrated to be flat out faster than Marvel? Certainly not if written correctly. As in the comic where it was Captain Marvel (and not Supes) who caught the Flash when his speed force was going out of control.

Versatile? Yes sure. But that aids him in being able to handle a lot of situations other than duels and not necessarily in duels themselves. Heat Vision is good but its effectiveness will be limited, Freeze Breath wouldn't aid him at all.

And I see you are one of those that interprets Kingdom Come as a 'win' for Superman. Sorry, he turned Captain Marvel back into Billy by exploiting a bad strategy that came about by Luthor's mind control affecting his judgement. Marvel was DOMINATING the fight. And regardless of whether Superman was trying to reason with him or not, its already been confirmed by Superman himself (see the scan I posted) that KC Marvel was his superior in abilities anyway.

Arguments could be brought in favour of Superman. Plenty of them. But the truth is Captain Marvel has and always will be portrayed as around Superman physicall-wise, independently of Superman's upgrades in power. Ironically, the most 'clear' victory Superman has over Captain Marvel is the Byrne era version while he was posessed by Eclipso, when he beat him so bad other superheroes said it's a wonder he's still alive, while Eclipso Superman was good as ever, even repeatedly owning Lobo shortly afterwards.

But that is 'normal' Superman. It has been shown that when it goes down, Superman is the guy you must go, as when he confronts the thread he displays a level of power above what he displays in normal circumstances and above his peers aswell. This has been proven numerous times, such as in OWAW, against Maggedon etc.

So yeah, Superman for a healthy majority.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Arguments could be brought in favour of Superman. Plenty of them. But the truth is Captain Marvel has and always will be portrayed as around Superman physicall-wise, independently of Superman's upgrades in power. Ironically, the most 'clear' victory Superman has over Captain Marvel is the Byrne era version while he was posessed by Eclipso, when he beat him so bad other superheroes said it's a wonder he's still alive, while Eclipso Superman was good as ever, even repeatedly owning Lobo shortly afterwards.

But that is 'normal' Superman. It has been shown that when it goes down, Superman is the guy you must go, as when he confronts the thread he displays a level of power above what he displays in normal circumstances and above his peers aswell. This has been proven numerous times, such as in OWAW, against Maggedon etc.

So yeah, Superman for a healthy majority.

And even then there was plenty of arguments for Marvel's side. Seeing as Marvel had Superman in a hold from behind and was finally defeated after a distraction caused him to loosen his hold. (I forget what the distraction was exactly, some light in the sky or what not...)And he was fighting fairly evenly with Eclipso possessed Superman even before that. All the while clearly not wanting to fight Supes.

I'm still taking the good Captain 60 to 65 out of 100. Superman was amazed by the power he felt in Captain Marvel when they were fused in that one comic, while Captain Marvel was pretty non chalant about it.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's a bullshit assumption that Captain's 'magic aura' has an effect on Superman's abilities.

Marvel's magic powers simply power him to superman levels. Superman is vulnerable to magic but it's not a 'weakness' that tones him down like a red sun.

Also the Captain Marvel is more durable than Superman. The Captain can take shots from high level magic that would kill Superman.

Strength? Marvel has stalemated Superman in arm wrestling contests.

Speed? Where has he demonstrated to be flat out faster than Marvel? Certainly not if written correctly. As in the comic where it was Captain Marvel (and not Supes) who caught the Flash when his speed force was going out of control.

Versatile? Yes sure. But that aids him in being able to handle a lot of situations other than duels and not necessarily in duels themselves. Heat Vision is good but its effectiveness will be limited, Freeze Breath wouldn't aid him at all.

And I see you are one of those that interprets Kingdom Come as a 'win' for Superman. Sorry, he turned Captain Marvel back into Billy by exploiting a bad strategy that came about by Luthor's mind control affecting his judgement. Marvel was DOMINATING the fight. And regardless of whether Superman was trying to reason with him or not, its already been confirmed by Superman himself (see the scan I posted) that KC Marvel was his superior in abilities anyway.

Superman is vulnerable to Magic, His aura doesn't protect him against magic, but Superman did get a nice upgrade against magic. So when you say, Cm tanked a magical attack that Superman would, it doesn't mean that Superman's durability is weaker. Superman has tanked tanked from monster Shazam wouldn't.

Superman's feats have surpassed Captain Marvel's Speed but a huge margin! Superman strenght was shown to be more strong. His durability has been proven time and again that it's better then Marvels.

OWNED!

lol i thought this was funny.

Marvel's punches only have magic properties when he charges them up with lightning around them.

Magic is what grants him PHYSICAL power. He's no sorcerer who casts spells.(at least not Normal Marvel) He's simply a hero who's magically imbued with immense physical power and durability.

Name one monster, name ONE that has given Superman a shot that Captain Marvel wouldn't be able to tank as well.

As I recall Marvel even handled several villains at the same time who were ganging up on Supes. I believe Grundy was one of them? Or perhaps Bizzaro? I know than Captain Marvel has handled Bizzaro before, someone who Superman always has trouble with. Nothing magical about Bizzaro's powers so that can't be used as an excuse.