Superman vs. Shazam! ( Captain Marvel)

Started by quanchi11259 pages

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman has fine control of his HV. Trust me, Superman at his best can make it go completely through them like a hot knife thru butter. The proof is when it was shown to through him like that. Superman wouldn't turn it on to this degree in a fight against CM. But it will give him a decisive advantage if he uses it simultaneously when fighting him. The freeze breath is a factor too. It could be used to slow down CM a touch in order to get more hits on him and to lower his attack speed in order for Superman to defend easier. Then Superman has the vibrating through attacks thing and fighting at tremendous battle speeds (not travel speed).
He tried to do so against Ww and it didn't go all the way through her skin outside her body. WW also has great reflexes so acting like Superman hits her perfectly where he wants to isn't supported either.

Cm also holds back against Superman so in the same sentence you agree he wouldn't even do so further even destroying your own argument. Peachy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you're adamant that there's no possibility that Wonder Woman's own efforts prevented her from being in a position to be knocked into the Sun, then you've assumed your own conclusion.
Your hypocrisy is hilarious, for asking me to consider "possibilities" when you're making up excuses at every step for why the comics presents clear cut instances of Superman doing the exact opposite of what you say his intention was, which is to kill Wonder Woman/Doomsday.

I can just make fun of how your arguments twisted and turned.

You went from:

"Wonder Woman wasn't between Superman and the Sun anymore. She wrestled out of position. That's it."

to:

"OH SHIT THERES THE SCAN SHOWING THE EXACT OPPOSITE RIGHT BEFORE HE PUNCHES HER

...well then, she, wrestled behind him or something!

By teleporting.

Superman did an involuntary 180!

Yeah.

That's it. "

You make up bullshit excuses.

That's what the discussion has been about.

It started from the "Superman saw the kryptonite so he..erm..punched her to Earth instead of the sun because he panicked! RIGHT!" without any kind of argument. Even your meager attempt at an argumentation, with "Well, he reacted to Wonder Woman's attacks during the fight, so he must have seen her moves and thus kryptonite!", once dismissed with the clearly shown within the comic fact that Superman didn't see Diana or the weaponry she used at all, but just Diana's moves translated into Doomsday's (her Tiara was shown as Doomsday's bones cutting him), you kind of just stopped arguing.

And went tangential "But Diana said he wasn't holding back! He said he was gonna kill her. It doesn't matter that he soon said that he wants her/him to SUFFER FIRST in the same panel where instead of delivering the killing strike of PUNCHING HIM IN THE SUN he does the opposite and punches her/him RIGHT BACK TO EARTH. Where, as a matter of fact, Doomsday is also far more formidable because HE'S NOT A NON-FLYER IN SPACE. He said he was gonna kill her and that's it!".

Even when we move on to Superman clearly being in the position to beat Doomsday/Diana to death, while she is unconscious on the floor enough for a whole page of Max Lord talking, your argument is, and I'm literally just copy/pasting here:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
People talk during fights.

An out for the kill Superman stopped attacking an unconscious, at his mercy Diana/Doomsday because "people talk during fights".

facepalm Just..facepalm

Your argument is based on two things:

1). Superman's initial intention of throwing Diana/Doomsday inside the sun, which he soon reversed, after making it clear, in the same panel, that he wants Doomsday to "suffer first".
2). Superman saying that he tried to kill her (which considering that at that point he was draggin her towards the sun, sure) but then once he got there he punched her/him back to Earth, in the same panel saying that he wanted him/her to suffer first.

That's it.

We have, on panel, Superman sparing Diana/Doomsday from sure death. Twice.

--
You're trying to paint this as some kind of "Desperate Superman fan tries to save face from fight" when your arguments are thin, and in contradiction with what the comic showed.

And you know this. That's why you're going on the ridicule "let me show some cropped panels of statements in which it's said Superman is not holding back or out of for the kill, and ignore the other arguments that I know I can't win! Hopefully nobody will see!".

Superman's heat vision was the only one that was downplayed, and even then it was burning her bones, from literally a few moments of exposure.

Meanwhile, he was physically overhwelming to the point where he was breaking her wrist and had her at his mercy, while thinking he fights a completly different opponent. Twice.

Low showing? Right.

^ Get over this sh1t.

This isn't my accusation that Superman tried to kill Wonder Woman. It's Superman's very own statement. He verifies he tried to kill. AND OH, HOW HE TRIED.

If he didn't ever attempt to throw her into the Sun... and didn't try to kill her after she crash-landed on Earth... when the hell did he actually try to kill her? Riddle me that.

Get over it. You're done. Your argument isn't worth the effort it takes to roll my eyes. I can't believe you'd choose this non-sensical argument. What an utter waste. What an utter trainwreck.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He tried to do so against Ww and it didn't go all the way through her skin outside her body. WW also has great reflexes so acting like Superman hits her perfectly where he wants to isn't supported either.

Cm also holds back against Superman so in the same sentence you agree he wouldn't even do so further even destroying your own argument. Peachy.

That's because:

1. It was a low showing
or
2. WW is very resistant against heat attacks

WW isn't fighting here, CM is. CM has no braces to block the HV. So why bring that up. CM will get hit by the HV if Superman chooses to use it.

With fine control, I mean he can alter the power and size of it. He can make it as a soft heat ray or a vicious beam that can penetrate almost anything.

I'm not destroying my argument. The hv will not kill CM but it will hurt him. That's enough to give Superman an advantage while fighting him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Get over this sh1t
I wish I knew how to quit you.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If he didn't ever attempt to throw her into the Sun...
Putting words into my mouth.

But yes, I'm not about to pursue this any longer either.

Like I said, Superman wins this thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's because:

1. It was a low showing
or
2. WW is very resistant against heat attacks

WW isn't fighting here, CM is. CM has no braces to block the HV. So why bring that up. CM will get hit by the HV if Superman chooses to use it.

With fine control, I mean he can alter the power and size of it. He can make it as a soft heat ray or a vicious beam that can penetrate almost anything.

I'm not destroying my argument. The hv will not kill CM but it will hurt him. That's enough to give Superman an advantage while fighting him.

It wasn't a low showing it's an average showing. You tend to only look at his highs while dismissing his average showings. I look at them all.

I do think Cm can be damaged by hv but Cm is more durable and stronger then WW and to me this fight will be determined by fists. I think magically amped fists more than compensate for his hv which to my knowledge has never been a deciding factor in one of their scuffles.

I say it's pretty much an even split.

toss up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It wasn't a low showing it's an average showing. You tend to only look at his highs while dismissing his average showings. I look at them all.

I do think Cm can be damaged by hv but Cm is more durable and stronger then WW and to me this fight will be determined by fists. I think magically amped fists more than compensate for his hv which to my knowledge has never been a deciding factor in one of their scuffles.

I say it's pretty much an even split.

Why isn't it a low showing? Because you say so. There are more times that the hv went through Superman or another kryptonian when out for the kill than this one instance. And yes I go by high showings only unless they are PIS. I think Diana has a high resistance against fire and heat due to the power of Hestia "fires of truth" implemented in her.

CM isn't more durable than WW. WW has taken it with the best of them and been fine. Magically amp fists might add a little to the damage but Hv will add not only more damage but also distract. Superman will get far more blows on CM than CM will get on him plus the HV will be doing damage as well. And don't let me talk about freeze breath, battle speed, vibrating, and experience and skill, that would be too unfair.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
toss up.

People see a toss up because they think:

1. similar strength
2. similar durability
3. similar speed.

Well an expert knows that Superman has the advantages of:

1. Battle speed
2. hv tactics
3. freeze breath tactics
4. vibrating tactics
5. more experience
6. greater skill of fighting

CM has
1. magical amp fists
2. grabbing Superman and saying Shazam

The former advantages outweigh the latter by a good margin.
For Superman will land far more blows on CM than CM on him plus will be dishing out some more damage with HV.

[QUOTE=13439576]Originally posted by h1a8

"CM isn't more durable than WW."

I cant believe you just posted that.

[QUOTE=13439581]Originally posted by h1a8
[B]People see a toss up because they think:

1. similar strength CORRECT
2. similar durability CORRECT
3. similar speed. CORRECT

Well an expert knows that Superman has the advantages of:

1. Battle speed SMALL advantge
2. hv tactics CORRECT
3. freeze breath tactics CORRECT
4. vibrating tactics SUpes hasnt done this enough to call it a natural ability
5. more experience CORRECT
6. greater skill of fighting CORRECT

CM has
1. magical amp fists CORRECT
2. grabbing Superman and saying Shazam CORRECT

The former advantages outweigh the latter by a good margin.
For Superman will land far more blows on CM than CM on him (INCORRECT in order for supes to do this he would have to speed blitz marvel and hes not that much faster.)

Originally posted by zeel
[QUOTE=13439581]Originally posted by h1a8
[B]People see a toss up because they think:

1. similar strength CORRECT
2. similar durability CORRECT
3. similar speed. CORRECT

Well an expert knows that Superman has the advantages of:

1. Battle speed SMALL advantge
2. hv tactics CORRECT
3. freeze breath tactics CORRECT
4. vibrating tactics SUpes hasnt done this enough to call it a natural ability
5. more experience CORRECT
6. greater skill of fighting CORRECT

CM has
1. magical amp fists CORRECT
2. grabbing Superman and saying Shazam CORRECT

The former advantages outweigh the latter by a good margin.
For Superman will land far more blows on CM than CM on him (INCORRECT in order for supes to do this he would have to speed blitz marvel and hes not that much faster.)

I appreciate you response and it shows your willingness to be honest. I agree with you for the most part. I just view a more skillful person who is slightly faster in combat to get more hits than the other person naturally. Otherwise there is no skill and experience advantage. Also the HV tactic will just add to the damage that Clark is hitting with to neutralize CM's advantage with magical amped fists. It will be also used to distract CM in order to land more blows and defend him a little easier. Also the freeze breath can be used to slow down CM a little more in order for Superman to land even more blows and defend even more easier.

But you are right. I would say CM is a little more durable than WW. But she has some decent feats that puts her up there with him.
Superman hasn't vibrated enough to do it on a regular but it's possible for him to do it in this fight (especially if he feels he has to). It's always an option I should say whenever it's needed.

So there are ways for Clark to land more blows on CM without speed blitzing.

Superman > Captain Marvel = Wonder Woman

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman > Captain Marvel = Wonder Woman

More like Superman >= Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why isn't it a low showing? Because you say so. There are more times that the hv went through Superman or another kryptonian when out for the kill than this one instance. And yes I go by high showings only unless they are PIS. I think Diana has a high resistance against fire and heat due to the power of Hestia "fires of truth" implemented in her.

CM isn't more durable than WW. WW has taken it with the best of them and been fine. Magically amp fists might add a little to the damage but Hv will add not only more damage but also distract. Superman will get far more blows on CM than CM will get on him plus the HV will be doing damage as well. And don't let me talk about freeze breath, battle speed, vibrating, and experience and skill, that would be too unfair.

Give me a few examples. It's an average showing.

These guys have fought numerous times and the stuff you bring up doesn't factor in. As always you just make things up and yes Marvel is more durable than WW.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman.
Wanna bet that every direct comparison between the two of them in post Crisis history has shown otherwise?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Wanna bet that every direct comparison between the two of them in post Crisis history has shown otherwise?

If you want to talk about the lasso being the result of at least two "losses" on Cap's part, sure. Physically, Cap's superior. Not sure how or why that's even up for debate, really. Last time she scuffled with Cap, he was kicking her ass along side several other heroes.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I wish I knew how to quit you.

Putting words into my mouth.

But yes, I'm not about to pursue this any longer either.

Like I said, Superman wins this thread.

Captain Marvel wins this thread.. and Superman was trying to kill WW and directly stated on panel, not just once, but numerous times.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Wanna bet that every direct comparison between the two of them in post Crisis history has shown otherwise?

If you have scans or can cite fights, go for it.

War of the Gods is the best example I can think of, since Billy was being controlled by the gods and probably not holding back, but it wasn't much of a fight either.. Two panels, maybe. I can see WW doing comparable vs Superman for two panels, even if he wasn't holding back.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Superman was trying to kill WW and directly stated on panel, not just once, but numerous times.

👆

only the superman fanboys who don't see it

as for the thread CM wins 6/10
strength,durability,speed are too close to call
an all out SM vs an all out CM would be a great fight but still pretty stalemate unless CM begins using his magic mits