whos stronger superman or hulk??

"'The Incredible Hulk': #242, Hulk breaks through the wall that holds the flame of life, which withstood the power of Celestials. The narration says: "He just pulls all the more, straining with every iota of his strength to rip free this infernal object...becoming madder and madder, his strength building with his anger, as he tugs against a device built to withstand the power of gods! But this is the power of the Hulk! And ultimately, there is no force stronger than the Hulk!" If Hulk were incapable of attaining strength levels greater than a Skyfather, or a Celestial, how would he achieve such a feat?"

easy. Its a high end feat. Every hero has them. It doesnt speak for what they regularly do. Herc has manage to put Zeus down once. Do you consider him able to do that all the time? Or able to attain Zeus strenght and durability level? I dont.

"The only factors that keep Thor in fights with the Hulk are Mjolnir, and his fighting ability."

And his strenght. Your forgetting he already matched a increasing with rage Hulk before without the hammer.

"Can you recall any fights between "Full-god" Hercules and Hulk?"

Yes. They all ended in stalemates. Some the Hulk had the slight advantage. Others Hercules had.

"Namor was able to defeat Banner-Controlled Hulk twice"

A Hulk nothless. No Hulk is easy to beat.

"I can honestly tell you, and prove that Hulk has lifted far more weight than Hercules, or Thor, or Namor combined"

Provide it. And we are talking immortal Hercules right? I find it dubius, but your a good poster regarding your tance in the Hulk so ill await.

And CC Namor against the Byrne animal hulk was weak due to the desert heat.

Originally posted by olympian
"'The Incredible Hulk': #242, Hulk breaks through the wall that holds the flame of life, which withstood the power of Celestials. The narration says: "He just pulls all the more, straining with every iota of his strength to rip free this infernal object...becoming madder and madder, his strength building with his anger, as he tugs against a device built to withstand the power of gods! But this is the power of the Hulk! And ultimately, there is no force stronger than the Hulk!" If Hulk were incapable of attaining strength levels greater than a Skyfather, or a Celestial, how would he achieve such a feat?"

easy. Its a high end feat. Every hero has them. It doesnt speak for what they regularly do. Herc has manage to put Zeus down once. Do you consider him able to do that all the time? Or able to attain Zeus strenght and durability level? I dont.

"The only factors that keep Thor in fights with the Hulk are Mjolnir, and his fighting ability."

And his strenght. Your forgetting he already matched a increasing with rage Hulk before without the hammer.

"Can you recall any fights between "Full-god" Hercules and Hulk?"

Yes. They all ended in stalemates. Some the Hulk had the slight advantage. Others Hercules had.

"Namor was able to defeat Banner-Controlled Hulk twice"

A Hulk nothless. No Hulk is easy to beat.

All I was saying is that Hulk is capable of attaining the strength of a Skyfather, or a Celestial, or anyone else. No, he isn't always that strong. It was just a high end feat. He can attain that level of strength, if need be.

Thor got his ass beat by Hulk without his hammer. He didn't match him.

You have any issue #'s for Hulk vs. Herc?

There's a big difference between fighting Banner Controlled Hulk, or Grey Hulk, and fighting Savage Hulk. It is difficult to defeat any incarnation, and while the Grey Hulk, Professor, and Banner Controlled Hulk's may have more intellegence, Savage Hulk simply outclasses them in strengh, durability, and regenerative speed. Not all of the Hulks have the potential for limitless strength; only Savage Hulk does.

Originally posted by olympian
"I can honestly tell you, and prove that Hulk has lifted far more weight than Hercules, or Thor, or Namor combined"

Provide it. And we are talking immortal Hercules right? I find it dubius, but your a good poster regarding your tance in the Hulk so ill await.

And CC Namor against the Byrne animal hulk was weak due to the desert heat.

Byrne's animal Hulk was dying from seperation from Banner. Namor's only two victories occured underwater, where he has a serious advantage. It works both ways.

Hulk resisted the matter antimatter attraction. This feat alone surpasses anything any of them have done. Hulk broke a fundamental law of physics when he did it, as stated by the scientists, and Spiderman. It would require limitless strength simply to keep the orbs seperated, much less punch one of them into space. In Hulk 242, he attained Celestial level strength in mere moments. As I said, Hulk is not always at Celestial level strength, but he's as strong as he needs to be during a fight, and that level of strength increases as he becomes angrier. It's a subconcious thing. Hulk can't consciously give himself Celestial level strength. He would have to be doing something that requires Celestial level of strength, and in moments, he would have it. That's why Hulk doesn't have to keep getting angrier and angrier to get strong enough to lift something.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube

Hulk resisted the matter antimatter attraction. This feat alone surpasses anything any of them have done. Hulk broke a fundamental law of physics when he did it, as stated by the scientists, and Spiderman. It would require limitless strength simply to keep the orbs seperated, much less punch one of them into space. In Hulk 242, he attained Celestial level strength in mere moments. As I said, Hulk is not always at Celestial level strength, but he's as strong as he needs to be during a fight, and that level of strength increases as he becomes angrier. It's a subconcious thing. Hulk can't consciously give himself Celestial level strength. He would have to be doing something that requires Celestial level of strength, and in moments, he would have it. That's why Hulk doesn't have to keep getting angrier and angrier to get strong enough to lift something.

If you stuck Herc, Supes, or Namor fresh out of water, in between those orbs, they would have not been strong enough to hold them apart. It's that simple.

Savage Hulk is the most physically powerful hero ever...

Originally posted by Sentry
If you stuck Herc, Supes, or Namor fresh out of water, in between those orbs, they would have not been strong enough to hold them apart. It's that simple.

Savage Hulk is the most physically powerful hero ever...

Thank you, Sentry.

"Thor got his ass beat by Hulk without his hammer. He didn't match him."

Defenders 10# he matched his strenght over an hour with Hulk having rage increase. Without hammer for that hour.

"You have any issue #'s for Hulk vs. Herc?"

Yeah. I have theyr complete first fight. the Hercules vs the Byrne animal parts and the page where he fough a mind controlled Hulk ( pad issue ).

"Byrne's animal Hulk was dying from seperation from Banner. Namor's only two victories occured underwater, where he has a serious advantage. It works both ways."

Definatly. Thing is he has fought him evenly even out of water. Fresh its true but still.

"Hulk resisted the matter antimatter attraction. This feat alone surpasses anything any of them have done"

But not all of them together. Each one has plenetary level feats on theyr own in theyr respective rep.

"Hulk broke a fundamental law of physics when he did it, as stated by the scientists, and Spiderman"

Any high feat for the top tier challenges the laws of physics. Herc. Thor. Supes. You name it.

"If you stuck Herc, Supes, or Namor fresh out of water, in between those orbs, they would have not been strong enough to hold them apart. It's that simple."

Not that simple no. Considering they all did things from helding cosmic beings to lift them out of earth and destroying cosmic bodies theres no way i see Hulk to be able to lift more than all of these combined. Not even more than Herc and Supes together nevermind Namor.

Originally posted by olympian
"If you stuck Herc, Supes, or Namor fresh out of water, in between those orbs, they would have not been strong enough to hold them apart. It's that simple."

Not that simple no. Considering they all did things from helding cosmic beings to lift them out of earth and destroying cosmic bodies theres no way i see Hulk to be able to lift more than all of these combined. Not even more than Herc and Supes together nevermind Namor.

You see it right here. I don't think you understand. Have you ever taken physics? Between matter and antimatter, there is a irresistable force of attraction that is infinite in magnitude. To resist the attraction, one would have to exercise an equally infinite force. Superman's strength, plus Hercules', plus Namor's does not equal infinity. This isn't the equivilant of moving a planet. It is possible to move a planet. It is not possible to resist the matter antimatter attraction without a force that is infinite in magnitude. Hulk is actually demonstrating infinite strength.

Originally posted by olympian
"Hulk broke a fundamental law of physics when he did it, as stated by the scientists, and Spiderman"

Any high feat for the top tier challenges the laws of physics. Herc. Thor. Supes. You name it.

Hulk did not challenge the laws of physics, he broke them. Moving a planet does not challenge the laws of physics. Can you recall an instance when Hercules, or Superman defied the laws of physics with his strength alone?

Impressive. You changed my mind a bit.

Now i dont belive he has infinite strenght. Higer beings would had done that. What i do consider is the possibillity that he can have higher end feats of all the Top Tier - without - a powerup ala sundip Superman, or even War Hulk as evidence by the fact this was/is regular Hulk. The text shows that while Hulk managed it at first he was "merely" helding his own and even Spiderman was in the verge of thinking he wouldnt resist it for much longer. Thats why i belive he changed tactics.

"Hulk did not challenge the laws of physics, he broke them. Moving a planet does not challenge the laws of physics. Can you recall an instance when Hercules, or Superman defied the laws of physics with his strength alone?"

Mythology speaking Hercules had the helding the heavens or Uranos who was one of the primordial beings of the universe. Comics wise and regular version no. Superman not really if your talking post crisis.

Pre Crisis he had a bunch of them.

Originally posted by olympian
Impressive. You changed my mind a bit.

Now i dont belive he has infinite strenght. Higer beings would had done that. What i do consider is the possibillity that he can have higher end feats of all the Top Tier - without - a powerup ala sundip Superman, or even War Hulk as evidence by the fact this was/is regular Hulk. The text shows that while Hulk managed it at first he was "merely" helding his own and even Spiderman was in the verge of thinking he wouldnt resist it for much longer. Thats why i belive he changed tactics.

Resisting the attraction is the feat. The force that pulled the orbs together is infinite. Holding the orbs apart, or moving them apart even one angstrom, would be impossible without infinite strength. That's why Spiderman was so astounded. Hulk can perform any feat of strength, no matter the magnitude, if he needs to.

Originally posted by olympian
"Hulk did not challenge the laws of physics, he broke them. Moving a planet does not challenge the laws of physics. Can you recall an instance when Hercules, or Superman defied the laws of physics with his strength alone?"

Mythology speaking Hercules had the helding the heavens or Uranos who was one of the primordial beings of the universe. Comics wise and regular version no. Superman not really if your talking post crisis.

Pre Crisis he had a bunch of them.

Pre-crisis Superman did crazy shit like rub two planets together and make a star. I never saw him do anything that suggested that he had infintite strength, but he did a lot of stuff that defyed the laws of physics and logic alike.

Yeah..........like getting a new power every issue.

In a final analisys Pre crisis Superman, Herakles and Hulk perform feats of strengh according to what they need.

I never saw either Hulk or Herc failing to lift anything they wanted. Same to pre crisis Supes. Post crisis its another story he has failed before.

"Resisting the attraction is the feat. The force that pulled the orbs together is infinite. Holding the orbs apart, or moving them apart even one angstrom, would be impossible without infinite strength."

Or he merely reached the level enough to do it. Infinite means he could get stronger and stronger with no reach in sight and could even lift or move more than that.

Spiderman altho says he reached the necessary level for that, Hulk wouldnt last much longer and was only helding is own until the enevitable. Impressive but doesnt speak infinite for me.

It did managed tho to increase my respect for the character.

Originally posted by olympian
In a final analisys Pre crisis Superman, Herakles and Hulk perform feats of strengh according to what they need.

I never saw either Hulk or Herc failing to lift anything they wanted. Same to pre crisis Supes. Post crisis its another story he has failed before.

The difference between them is that Hulk has been said, and proven to have limitless strength. After the Beyonder probed Hulk in Secret Wars 2 #8, he said "You are nothing but power incarnate! An infinity of physical power with no finite element inside! Worse yet, you remind me of someone (himself)."

There are plenty of guys who have never maxed out, but none of them have achieved the feats of strength that Hulk has, and none of them have ever been said to have limitless strength. That's Hulk's character; a really dumb guy who has the power to become stronger than anyone, and lift anything.

As a paralel consider Herakles in the myth helding the physcal manifestation of the heavens. It couldnt hold it forever. But only the necessary to get the job done. He would inevitably reach a point he couldnt take anymore. And we are talking a feat thats akin of a WW, Superman and Kyle rainer helding the weight of the Specter.

Feats that cannot be numbered. Like that one you posted but inevitable for the heroes to last short.

"There are plenty of guys who have never maxed out, but none of them have achieved the feats of strength that Hulk has, and none of them have ever been said to have limitless strength. That's Hulk's character; a really dumb guy who has the power to become stronger than anyone, and lift anything"

On that i totally agree. I wont say that Hercules at marvel has more feats because he doesnt. Hulk is indeed the top hero that has more strengh feats in these parts.

Originally posted by olympian
"Resisting the attraction is the feat. The force that pulled the orbs together is infinite. Holding the orbs apart, or moving them apart even one angstrom, would be impossible without infinite strength."

Or he merely reached the level enough to do it. Infinite means he could get stronger and stronger with no reach in sight and could even lift or move more than that.

Spiderman altho says he reached the necessary level for that, Hulk wouldnt last much longer and was only helding is own until the enevitable. Impressive but doesnt speak infinite for me.

It did managed tho to increase my respect for the character.

The force between matter and antimatter is "infinite." It is irresistable. Spiderman speculated that Hulk wouldn't last, but the truth is that Hulk doesn't tire. Hulk could have stood there and held the orbs for as long as nesscesary. Hulk was able to resist the attraction because the more the orbs pushed together, the more power came out of his pocket universe.

Infinity cannot be reached. Hulk's strength could increase until eternity and it would never reach infinity. My only notion is that Hulk can easily become strong enough to lift anything, and become stronger than anyone in moments. Inside of him is a universe of infinite power, that allows him to attain any level of strength.