Storm vs. Dr. Doom

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm fully aware of all this. Your whole Pro-Storm, Anti-Doom argument is based entirely on the fact that she could get electricity into his suit. From outside of his forcefield, Dr. Doom's forcefield. The one that can take a blast from Galactus.

You keep bringing examples of him taking blasts from other enemies up, but I keep saying that the fact that he took a blast from Galactus does nothing to suggest how he would react to a electric assault from the inside of his shields.

"But it proved that his shields aren't always up, and it provided circumstantial evidence that his equipment isn't properly guarded against directed electrical attack."

Let me add a bit to that. '...when his shield is down'. There.

ok, I'll take that. But keep in mind that IF Storm affects Doom from the inside of his shield, then the circumstantial evidence would suggest that he's in some trouble. Would you agree?

"I've provided ample circumstantial evidence and have spent the entire thread defending it. Where is yours?"

See above. You've proved nothing essentially. She disabled his GLOVE when his shield was DOWN. Nothing more AT ALL.

I've drawn attention to significant circumstantial evidence that supports my case. How can you honestly say I've proven nothing? Short of having her actually attack Doom through her shield, I've provided every bit of evidence to show that there's no reason she couldn't do it to Doom as well. How can you say otherwise?

And see above where? Which point was your evidence, and what did it support? Are you referring to taking a blast from Galactus? I already mentioned that the two blasts have different effects because they have different purposes.

"Circumstantial evidence shows that if she can do it inside Magneto's forcefield, and she can do it inside Jean's forcefield, and she can do it inside Unus' forcefield (and they all have very different forcefields), then there's no reason why she would be unable to do it to Doom's forcefield."

Why does her altering the conditions inside Jean's forcefield mean that she could attack Doom from outside his?

Because in all cases, they're energy fields that cut off all outside forces. In all cases, it hasn't stopped her from effecting change from within those energy fields.

Again, there's more circumstantial evidence to show that she could do it than she couldn't. In order to counteract my point, you'd have to show examples where someone has tried and failed to manipulate Doom's person through his field. Otherwise, the circumstantial evidence is in my favor.

In other words - I've established that Storm is able to effect change from inside energy fields or varying types of energy. Is it possible that there's something special about Doom's field that would make what she was able to do to everybody else impossible against Doom? Could be - but you'd have to provide evidence, either direct or circumstantial, to suggest as much. Otherwise, evidence is in my favor.

"In return, I expect examples, not of Doom using magic in a fight against Storm, but circumstantial evidence to show Doom's use of magic in combat situations against superheroes to show that he'd have the ability AND the inclination to add that to his arsenal. If you can do that, then even though it's considered circumstantial because he used it against others, I will accept it as a valid part of his offense/defense."

I had forgotten the title of the comic but Arac reminded me.

Check " ". Tell me how magically inept he is after.

This was before Doom was Doom. It was shortly after his accident when he went around looking to be trained in magic. He became adept in it, but even then, cheated to become runner up in the tournament. When has he used magic since becoming Dr. Doom?

You said above 'they all have different shields'. Well is it not possible that Doom might protect himself with a shield that she CAN'T manipulate? Either his normal one or a magical one?

Sure it's possible. But what direct or circumstantial evidence do you have to bolster your case?

"Three. I recall she did it against Magneto, changing the air pressure from within his shield, causing him to unnaturally tire."

What's changing the air pressure gonna do to Doom?

Cause him to pass out, for one. Doom still breathes, right?

"You owe me at least some magic examples, if nothing else. Not just for the debate, but because I genuinely want to know."

Like the whole comic I just gave you?

And it was appreciated. But Doom has a long, long history. You're telling me he has no prior use of any kind of magic in combat against any superheroes since assuming the Doom persona? You should have several times the amount of circumstantial evidence considering that all Doom does is fight heroes for the past 40 years. Nothing?

"I figured you'd ask. Electro could beat Doom only if he could control electricity outside line of site, and electricity from other sources."

Wait, wait a minute. So lets suppose Storm and Electro CAN control the electricity inside Doom's forcefield (when he's not protected by magic), that doesn't mean that Storm and some jobber are gonna gain the victory does it? Your problem is that you give great odds to people based on one tiny weakness of the opponent they fight. Which is rather silly. Everybody knows Electro has no chance against Doom, neither does Storm.

And your problem is you judge fights by name recognition. Electro is a "jobber", therefore he loses against Doom because Doom is, well, DOOM. In a real fight, you HAVE to take strengths and weaknesses into account because that's how fights go. I don't care what someone's status is, or how worshipped they are by the masses. If Aunt May were a high-level electricity wielder who could control all electric fields, she beats Doom. I don't care that she's Aunt May. You would. And I don't agree with that.

"I hear that he got some kind of crazy upgrade"

Don't they all nowadays.....

At least he's not a mutant. Or worse. An X-man.

EDIT: Also, seeing as the prep time rules no longer seem to apply when they aren't against Dr. Doom, I'm gonna give Doom preptime and an easy win. Night night.

They don't? What happened?

Laugh? AC ive presented you with the facts Storm faced Dr Doom and he was taken out.Is this whole debate not about who would win if they fought? Well sorry to shatter your dreams but in their first and only confrontation she served him good. He retreated from that battle leaving storm victorious. Its laid out in comic book form. If u want argue with chris claremont then be my guest. Otherwise except its happened she won now hop along to another topic and go and post your rubbish ill researched threads there.

You sure it wasn't a Doombot? I hear they pop up everywhere.

Yeah im pretty sure it was Doom himself. Otherwise you could say that about virtually any of his appearances in comics where he hasnt taken off his mask or something. I dunno. But trust me check out those essential xmen graphic novels and its laid out plain as day

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yeah im pretty sure it was Doom himself. Otherwise you could say that about virtually any of his appearances in comics where he hasnt taken off his mask or something.

Actually, they DO say that about any of his appearances in comics where he hasn't taken off his mask. It's no unbelievably annoying...

I'll have to look up that fight. I can't believe I missed that one...I'm slipping.

Either way, if that's the case, then it further bolsters my case. It's looking increasingly bad for Doom, whose supporters basically limit their arguments to, "He's DOOM. She's STORM. She's NOTHING!" (which means nothing), or "he's taken shots from _______. What is Storm to that?" (which I've already addressed ad nauseum).

"You keep bringing examples of him taking blasts from other enemies up, but I keep saying that the fact that he took a blast from Galactus does nothing to suggest how he would react to a electric assault from the inside of his shields."

The fact that Torch does well doesn't meant he is susceptible to Storm but you kept bringing him up.

"ok, I'll take that. But keep in mind that IF Storm affects Doom from the inside of his shield, then the circumstantial evidence would suggest that he's in some trouble. Would you agree?"

Depends on the shield. Can she get through magical? Can she do all this while trying to dodge?

"I've provided every bit of evidence to show that there's no reason she couldn't do it to Doom as well. How can you say otherwise?"

All you have proven to me is that she can affect his gauntlet with electricity when his suit is down. Doom has multiple different types of shield. One that she might be able to get through, one she most probably won't.

"And see above where? Which point was your evidence, and what did it support? Are you referring to taking a blast from Galactus? I already mentioned that the two blasts have different effects because they have different purposes."

See above AGAIN. You seem to love misquoting and ignoring. Your WHOLE argument is based on an assumption that she can get through his shield.

To quote you at the start of the thread "If Doom has his shield down at the start of the fight, Storm fries him", or something to that effect. Which would suggest that with his shield up, she can't.

"In order to counteract my point, you'd have to show examples where someone has tried and failed to manipulate Doom's person through his field. Otherwise, the circumstantial evidence is in my favor."

Can you show me where Doom has been manipulated through his forcefield?

" Is it possible that there's something special about Doom's field that would make what she was able to do to everybody else impossible against Doom? Could be - but you'd have to provide evidence, either direct or circumstantial, to suggest as much. Otherwise, evidence is in my favor."

Like the fact that he's a magical powerhouse? You keep ignoring this.

"He became adept in it, but even then, cheated to become runner up in the tournament. When has he used magic since becoming Dr. Doom?"

Does that disprove he has it or is adept in it? No. Stop swerving away from points that you don't like.

"Sure it's possible. But what direct or circumstantial evidence do you have to bolster your case?"

Why is it on me? You haven't proven that Storm can break through magical shields. Yes, it is possible, I know I'm right. Wasn't it you who said fantasy battles are speculation and not all hard provable fact?

"Cause him to pass out, for one. Doom still breathes, right?"

Exactly the answer I wanted.

What is anything gonna do, if she can't get past the shield? You haven't given any more proof to say she can than I have to say she can't. You've just said there's no reason why she shouldn't be able to, well guess what? I don't have reason to believe it would work on Doom. Magneto and Jean aren't Doom.

"And it was appreciated. But Doom has a long, long history. You're telling me he has no prior use of any kind of magic in combat against any superheroes since assuming the Doom persona? You should have several times the amount of circumstantial evidence considering that all Doom does is fight heroes for the past 40 years. Nothing?"

You are humping this circumstancial evidence theory like a horny dog. The fact of the matter is, you are going by what Storm has done to others and making the ASSUMPTION that she could do it to Doom to. You can try and flip it back on me all you want to. The point is, I'm speculating, so are you.

"Electro is a "jobber", therefore he loses against Doom because Doom is, well, DOOM."

Thanks for telling me why I judge that fight. Here's how I really judge it though:

Electro is a jobber not by name, by power. He's got one consistant power, nothing much. He couldn't beat Doom as a result. I could give a crap about name recognition but it's not as ridiculous as giving Electro a chance against Doom on a tiny, minute, microscopic possibility because the writers are never gonna sit there and think of that, fans will never buy it and therefore it'll never happen.

"If Aunt May were a high-level electricity wielder who could control all electric fields, she beats Doom. I don't care that she's Aunt May. You would. And I don't agree with that."

No I wouldn't. You clearly judge by every minute (and often irrelevant detail), I made that call coz it's a fact you admit. I don't judge by name so don't sit there and tell me so.

"They don't? What happened?"

You were claiming "No prep time, the rules state no prep time". Then in the Forge thread you made the point of noting to ask "Have they got prep time? Access to weapons?".

Don't change rules to suit the debate you're in.

"If u want argue with chris claremont then be my guest. Otherwise except its happened she won now hop along to another topic and go and post your rubbish ill researched threads there."

Hahahahahahaha Chris Claremont, I was WAITING for you to say his name. Thank you for proving my point my friend. Nuff said. Shittest writer in comics today. Biggest ruiner of the X-Men that ever lived.

Don't come to me man, you're not even on my radar. Nothing you've said is new, I've seen it and smashed it all before.

"Either way, if that's the case, then it further bolsters my case. It's looking increasingly bad for Doom, whose supporters basically limit their arguments to, "He's DOOM. She's STORM. She's NOTHING!" (which means nothing), or "he's taken shots from _______. What is Storm to that?" (which I've already addressed ad nauseum)."

Hahahaha. It's only been you and Stormfront/Galactic Storm.

It's never looked bad for Doom in this thread. Your attempted humourous "He's Doom" comments have no effect. Desperate times and all that though eh?

Apparantly 13 people that have voted think Doom would win. To the....4 who voted for Storm. You, Stormfront, Galactic Storm......someone else.

Case shut.

-AC

AC, AC. What a load of bull crap. You havent countered any of my points because you cant. You hav just repeated a whole load of rubbish you said earlier that noone wants to hear again. Just because you dont like Chris Claremont does that mean that his story where storm sizzles doom out of his own castle is made null or void. No it most certainly DOES NOT. Ive noticed you dont actually really counter anyones points with any valid marvel knowledge you just talk smack about their points cos it aint the same view as yours. Grow up son and learn to debate. Do your research and come then rejoin the discussion. Now begone!!!

"AC, AC. What a load of bull crap."

Ooooh temper temper children.

"You havent countered any of my points because you cant. You hav just repeated a whole load of rubbish you said earlier that noone wants to hear again."

I haven't countered any of your points because I've countered them all before. If you haven't said them, others have. It doesn't matter who makes the point.

"Just because you dont like Chris Claremont does that mean that his story where storm sizzles doom out of his own castle is made null or void. No it most certainly DOES NOT. "

Do I really have to run you down on Chris Claremont's Hall of Comic Shame? Do I really? Shall we see what else he thinks "could happen"? Chris Claremont loves the X-Men, he's a biased X-Men fan. He writes what he wants to see, he doesn't write objectively. If I got a job for Marvel and did Storm Vs Rick Jones and had Rick win coz I liked him, you'd be furious Stor...I mean GalacticStorm. Go home.

"Ive noticed you dont actually really counter anyones points with any valid marvel knowledge you just talk smack about their points cos it aint the same view as yours. Grow up son and learn to debate. Do your research and come then rejoin the discussion. Now begone!!!"

I've noticed that you don't post anything other than 99% of "Hahaha you don't prove anything". I couldn't care less if you share my view or if you don't, really doesn't matter to me.

Funny how you're saying everything to me that I said to Stormfront. Get some new material or leave the thread.

Tired of nobodies coming to catch whoopings from me.

-AC

"I've noticed that you don't post anything other than 99% of "Hahaha you don't prove anything". I couldn't care less if you share my view or if you don't, really doesn't matter to me."

Since when that has been the case i do not know. Any1 who goes bk and reads my few posts ive made since i registered will see that i have made my argument and supported it by stating the comic dooms whupping occurred. Since that happened noone has been able to discredit my views on the topic with any relevant marvel knowledge your little quips AC my boy are irrelevant and theyre getting you nowhere. This argument between us was won by myself as soon as i posted my first thread. Im well versed in Marvel comics i dont require an amateur to tell me anything when it is quite evident from your contributions to this post and many others that you are the one who needs to be schooled. So i suggest you take yourself down to your nearest comic book store and purchase a copy of the Marvel Handbook. Please for the good of us all.
_GS

That's the greatest AC impression ever.

"Any1 who goes bk and reads my few posts ive made since i registered will see that i have made my argument and supported it by stating the comic dooms whupping occurred. Since that happened noone has been able to discredit my views on the topic with any relevant marvel knowledge your little quips AC my boy are irrelevant and theyre getting you nowhere."

I respect your quaint view that this comic actually means something but you, my friend, are apparantly an unobjective X-Men fan. You, like Chris Claremont, apparantly don't get what way a fight goes as long as your guys win. That's how Claremont writes, he doesn't consider if someone is better. Me? I like consistancy. I've not tried to discredit you, that wouldn't be friendly now would it? What I have done, is explained why I disagree. The reason being that you like the writer and all his fu...I mean accomplishments. I don't. Oh and trying to bite my style really doesn't look good. There's only one AC rookie, remember that.

"This argument between us was won by myself as soon as i posted my first thread. Im well versed in Marvel comics i dont require an amateur to tell me anything when it is quite evident from your contributions to this post and many others that you are the one who needs to be schooled. So i suggest you take yourself down to your nearest comic book store and purchase a copy of the Marvel Handbook. Please for the good of us all."

This argument (between us) isn't even an argument. It's you, coming back (coz lets not pretend here) and trying to do what you couldn't do earlier. You think you're fooling anyone by coming on here and saying "I'm well versed..."? Apparantly my dear boy, you are not.

Why are you resorting to such petty, petty, newbie and insecure arguments (that I ironically used on Stormfront) as take myself down to the comic book store? It's pretty evident that I'm a long term comics reader so POP, your claims are once again. Null.

Cheerio and welcome to KMC forums.

-AC

"It's pretty evident that I'm a long term comics reader"

Long term eh? AC my child why do u do this to yourself. You have given me the ammunition for your inevitable downfall. In the Rogue versus Hulk forum you talk about how if rogue absorbed the hulks powers her capacity would be only She Hulk level strength. Son where have you been for the past year and a half. Obviously not reading the comics you claim to be a long term fan of. In issues of the Xtreme Xmen rogue is shown juggling the full abilities of the hulk and also Magneto whom is considerably more powerful than she hulk wouldnt you agree? Therefore your statement on the extent of rogues capabilities is now discredited. So much for acclaimed superior marvel knowledge. I have told you the comic book where storm takes out doom and your only argument was that it was written by Claremont. Huh? Personal feelings aside he works for marvel you DO NOT. The comic book is there what happened is laid in stone. I am taking pops at your style because it is immature and quite frankly laughable. I have supported my arguments with Marvel fact you have NOT. When you are ready to do so please come bk to me. There is a new boy in town he has stood up to you tested your "marvel knowledge" and found it leaves a lot to be desired. Step down your time is done. You had a good run on here IT IS NOW OVER.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"You keep bringing examples of him taking blasts from other enemies up, but I keep saying that the fact that he took a blast from Galactus does nothing to suggest how he would react to a electric assault from the inside of his shields."

The fact that Torch does well doesn't meant he is susceptible to Storm but you kept bringing him up.

That point I made there is that if Doom didn't shield himself properly from fire when a fire wielder is one of his greatest enemies, how can you assume that he'd shield himself from lightning when a lightning wielder isn't? It's a valid point.

On the other hand, what are you trying to prove by saying he took shots from Galactus? If Storm fired electricity at him with his shield up, she couldn't penetrate, either. But she's circumventing it, so what point are you trying to make with the evidence above?

"ok, I'll take that. But keep in mind that IF Storm affects Doom from the inside of his shield, then the circumstantial evidence would suggest that he's in some trouble. Would you agree?"

Depends on the shield. Can she get through magical? Can she do all this while trying to dodge?

ok, so we've moved to the magic argument because I've made my case against his normal shield. Good. Progress. I like it.

When has Doom EVER created a magic shield? EVEN in the Strange graphic novel? ok, I can accept that he knows magic. But...when has he created an impenetrable magic shield? EVER?

I've at least named times when:

1)Storm attacked and disabled Doom's primary weapon

2) Attacked people from within their shields

and now, evidently, she's beaten Doom directly. You've given me virtually no counter arguments. All you're doing is challenging my evidence and now throwing in magic, which he's NEVER used in a fight since becoming Dr. Doom. Did somebody say "desperate times" earlier?

"I've provided every bit of evidence to show that there's no reason she couldn't do it to Doom as well. How can you say otherwise?"

All you have proven to me is that she can affect his gauntlet with electricity when his suit is down. Doom has multiple different types of shield. One that she might be able to get through, one she most probably won't.

Oh, now he has multiple different types of shields? Name them and when they were used.

"And see above where? Which point was your evidence, and what did it support? Are you referring to taking a blast from Galactus? I already mentioned that the two blasts have different effects because they have different purposes."

See above AGAIN. You seem to love misquoting and ignoring. Your WHOLE argument is based on an assumption that she can get through his shield.

I'm not misquoting or ignoring. I was ASKING, because I want clarification. I asked, "Which point was your evidence and what did it support? Are you referring to taking a blast from Galactus?". If that's not what you were referring to, then clarify. We've been arguing for several pages, if I'm missing a point you made or misquoting something, correct me. Don't just say, "You're misquoting".

So--what did I misquote? Which evidence were you referring to?

To quote you at the start of the thread "If Doom has his shield down at the start of the fight, Storm fries him", or something to that effect. Which would suggest that with his shield up, she can't.

Yes, very true. You know what I said that? Because Doom has taken blasts from Thanos, and Galactus and blah blah blah, so a direct assault against his shield by Storm will do nothing.

So what's the moral? If she CAN'T affect him through his shield, then she loses.

My argument is that she CAN, because she's done it with other shields, and I've provided ample evidence to suggest so. I've not seen any evidence that there's anything in the nature of Doom's energy shield that would somehow prevent it from happening to him. If you can do that, then it's a wash because our cases are equally strong. If you can't, then while we're both speculating, circumstantial evidence is on my side.

"In order to counteract my point, you'd have to show examples where someone has tried and failed to manipulate Doom's person through his field. Otherwise, the circumstantial evidence is in my favor."

Can you show me where Doom has been manipulated through his forcefield?

I've seen no attempts. Basically, the challenge can work from two directions. The burden of proof on me is:

1)Prove Storm can manipulate conditions inside forcefields. I've done so.
2) Prove that Doom can be affected from within his forcefield. There have been no attempts made, so I have not done so.

The burden of proof on you is:

1)Prove Storm's power is limited to outside fields. You haven't done so.
2)Prove Doom can't be manipulated through his forcefield. There have been no attempts made, so you haven't done so.

In both cases, 2) is unprovable either way because no attempts have been made. That leaves 1), and I've provided plentiful evidence to prove it. That means I've met my burden of proof and evidence is in my favor.

" Is it possible that there's something special about Doom's field that would make what she was able to do to everybody else impossible against Doom? Could be - but you'd have to provide evidence, either direct or circumstantial, to suggest as much. Otherwise, evidence is in my favor."

Like the fact that he's a magical powerhouse? You keep ignoring this.

I'm not ignoring this. How's he a magical "powerhouse" when he cheated his way to winning using a combination of smarts and technology? He has no feats to prove that he's any kind of mystical powerhouse other than cheating his way to 2nd place. I'd even be inclined to accept your argument if he created an impenetrable magical forcefield DURING that storyline. But...nothing. Nothing at all.

"He became adept in it, but even then, cheated to become runner up in the tournament. When has he used magic since becoming Dr. Doom?"

Does that disprove he has it or is adept in it? No. Stop swerving away from points that you don't like.

But it doesn't prove he's adept at it, either. Adept comes from practice, it comes from using it. Strange has fought with it. Doom has not. And even if the fact that he did in the past and doesn't do it anymore doesn't bother you, the fact that EVEN when he was doing it, he never created a magical shield SHOULD bother you"

"Sure it's possible. But what direct or circumstantial evidence do you have to bolster your case?"

Why is it on me?

Because it's YOUR point.

(see burden of proof, above)

You haven't proven that Storm can break through magical shields.

You haven't proven Doom can make one.

Yes, it is possible, I know I'm right. Wasn't it you who said fantasy battles are speculation and not all hard provable fact?

Hence the circumstantial evidence that I keep humping like a horny dog.

"Cause him to pass out, for one. Doom still breathes, right?"

Exactly the answer I wanted.

Why? You haven't done anything with it.

What is anything gonna do, if she can't get past the shield? You haven't given any more proof to say she can than I have to say she can't.

I've met half my burden. You've met none of yours.

You've just said there's no reason why she shouldn't be able to, well guess what? I don't have reason to believe it would work on Doom. Magneto and Jean aren't Doom.

They all use energy based shields. She's done it to all of them. Sheer probability suggests that based on her success in creating environments inside of energy shields in the past that she's more likely able to do it to Doom than not. You've done absolutely nothing to shift the probability in the other direction. It's just another energy shield.

You are humping this circumstancial evidence theory like a horny dog. The fact of the matter is, you are going by what Storm has done to others and making the ASSUMPTION that she could do it to Doom to. You can try and flip it back on me all you want to. The point is, I'm speculating, so are you.

Yes, we're speculating. BUT, I have met half my burden, and that makes my speculation more valid than yours. Your burden of proof now is also to show that Doom has made a magic shield in combat. If you can do that, then my burden of proof will be to show that Storm can affect magical shields (I'm already cooking up something).

Electro is a jobber not by name, by power. He's got one consistant power, nothing much. He couldn't beat Doom as a result.

I disagree with that logic. Having one consistent power doesn't mean that he can't beat Doom. You have you analyze what that power is and why it is. Kitty's one power is to phase through things, destroying all machinery in the process. In a fight against Doom, that's going to beat him because of the very nature of the power. Bedlam controls machinery. It's his one power, but against Doom who lives inside a machine, it's a doozy. I'd give a fight to him. Firelord, can shoot cosmic fire, among other things. But Doom's shields can block it. Firelord is more powerful than Bedlam and Kitty, but he loses to Doom where they won. Why? Because there's nothing in his power that is fundamentally incompatible with Doom's capabilities.

Storm - lots of powers. One of them is lightning. Lightning wreaks havoc on machines, etc....

I could give a crap about name recognition but it's not as ridiculous as giving Electro a chance against Doom on a tiny, minute, microscopic possibility because the writers are never gonna sit there and think of that, fans will never buy it and therefore it'll never happen.

I am the writer, it's not such a tiny, minute possibility if Electro can control all electrical currents and Doom's entire suit is comprised of electrical currents. That's a very real danger and a very real weakness. Nothing tiny, minute, or microscopic about it.

"If Aunt May were a high-level electricity wielder who could control all electric fields, she beats Doom. I don't care that she's Aunt May. You would. And I don't agree with that."

No I wouldn't. You clearly judge by every minute (and often irrelevant detail), I made that call coz it's a fact you admit.

Don't recall admitting that I judge by irrelevant details, but there's absolutely nothing irrelevant about electrical currents making up an opponent's offense AND defense going against someone who controls electrical currents. Nothing.

"They don't? What happened?"

You were claiming "No prep time, the rules state no prep time". Then in the Forge thread you made the point of noting to ask "Have they got prep time? Access to weapons?".

Don't change rules to suit the debate you're in.

You'll note that I asked if they have prep time and access to weapons. I didn't assume it. And I didn't give my answer until I got the poster's answer. Had the poster not answered, I would have gone by the default rules, just like the Rules say. No contradiction whatsoever.

"If u want argue with chris claremont then be my guest. Otherwise except its happened she won now hop along to another topic and go and post your rubbish ill researched threads there."

Hahahahahahaha Chris Claremont, I was WAITING for you to say his name. Thank you for proving my point my friend. Nuff said. Shittest writer in comics today. Biggest ruiner of the X-Men that ever lived.

???? Claremont IS the X-men. He, for all intents and purposes, created them. How could you possibly say he ruined them?

You know what? Nevermind, that's an entirely different debate.

Either way, who cares who wrote it? It's been written, and therefore it's a valid feat by Storm.

"Either way, if that's the case, then it further bolsters my case. It's looking increasingly bad for Doom, whose supporters basically limit their arguments to, "He's DOOM. She's STORM. She's NOTHING!" (which means nothing), or "he's taken shots from _______. What is Storm to that?" (which I've already addressed ad nauseum)."

Hahahaha. It's only been you and Stormfront/Galactic Storm.

It's never looked bad for Doom in this thread.

He lost a battle to Storm. Storm later disabled his gauntlet. I've talked at length about her ability to defeat foes through their forcefield. And Doom's shielding of electrical currents is dubious, making him vulnerable to Storm. In exchange, I get, "Doom has take hits by ___. Storm is nothing" from some people (not necessarily you), "Doom has gauntlets he can fry Storm" (despite the fact that she's already proven she can disable them), and "Doom has a forcefield, nothing can get through!" (which is also now a dubious claim). And now there's magic forcefields which has can't create. Yes, it looks bad for Doom.

Apparantly 13 people that have voted think Doom would win. To the....4 who voted for Storm. You, Stormfront, Galactic Storm......someone else.

People also voted that Wolverine can beat Lobo.

Case shut.

For once, we agree.

Yes Demigawd well said

Am I the only coldly detached person here? Every time I take time out to write a good response, I see there are, like 10 posts filled with insults back and forth. I'm almost feeling left out. I wanna insult somebody...

Alpha Centauri and GalacticStorm, use quote tags. It's kinda hard to tell yours and someone elses post apart.

"On the other hand, what are you trying to prove by saying he took shots from Galactus? If Storm fired electricity at him with his shield up, she couldn't penetrate, either. But she's circumventing it, so what point are you trying to make with the evidence above?"

Why do you continually weasel things in and out while twisting points? I'm merely saying that as new boy up there was trying to prove, she can't penetrate or bring down his shield from outside. He thinks she can.

"ok, so we've moved to the magic argument because I've made my case against his normal shield. Good. Progress. I like it. When has Doom EVER created a magic shield? EVEN in the Strange graphic novel? ok, I can accept that he knows magic. But...when has he created an impenetrable magic shield? EVER?"

A) I didn't move from anywhere. There you gooooo, there you go again. With your misinterpretations. B) If they fought again, can you prove he wouldn't use a magic shield? Since we appear to be talking about a battle that they WOULD have, not have had.

"1)Storm attacked and disabled Doom's primary weapon
2) Attacked people from within their shields
and now, evidently, she's beaten Doom directly. You've given me virtually no counter arguments. All you're doing is challenging my evidence and now throwing in magic, which he's NEVER used in a fight since becoming Dr. Doom. Did somebody say "desperate times" earlier?"

1) With the shield down, we've established this. 2) People. PEOPLE.

She didn't beat him directly, we agreed this above. Why are you being so hypocritical and flip floppy? She disabled his gauntlet, she didn't beat him. Your basis is, she has the ability so why wouldn't she use it in a fight next time, right? Well Doom has magic ability, why wouldn't HE use it? It's there so it's referable.

"Oh, now he has multiple different types of shields? Name them and when they were used."

Welcome to Math 101 with AC, two is more than one. More than one can be referred to as multiple. Goooood. Glad we get that.

"We've been arguing for several pages, if I'm missing a point you made or misquoting something, correct me. Don't just say, You're misquoting. So--what did I misquote? Which evidence were you referring to?"

The point you are missing is, he has an ability, therefore there's a possibility he will use it in a fight. Your WHOLE ENTIRE argument is based upon her getting through his shield from outside. Which we don't even know she CAN do, you assume she can. Doom has the means to summon other shields, which I have stated above, it's more than likely Storm won't be able to get through this. You're drawing it out.

"Yes, very true. You know what I said that? Because Doom has taken blasts from Thanos, and Galactus and blah blah blah, so a direct assault against his shield by Storm will do nothing."

The blast from Thanos did nothing......with his shield down. Which was MY reply to you saying his suit was basic.

"My argument is that she CAN, because she's done it with other shields, and I've provided ample evidence to suggest so. I've not seen any evidence that there's anything in the nature of Doom's energy shield that would somehow prevent it from happening to him. If you can do that, then it's a wash because our cases are equally strong. If you can't, then while we're both speculating, circumstantial evidence is on my side."

How are we both equally right and speculating yet you some how have the edge? Your circumstantial evidence is just being placed upon another situation. You are making an assumption that coz she's done it to three shields, she'll do it to one of Doom's. Which I can see why you think that way. However, it is still an assumption. If a sprinter beats two sprinters, doesn't guarantee he'll beat the 3rd.

"I've seen no attempts. Basically, the challenge can work from two directions. The burden of proof on me is: 1)Prove Storm can manipulate conditions inside forcefields. I've done so.
2) Prove that Doom can be affected from within his forcefield. There have been no attempts made, so I have not done so. The burden of proof on you is: 1)Prove Storm's power is limited to outside fields. You haven't done so.
2)Prove Doom can't be manipulated through his forcefield. There have been no attempts made, so you haven't done so. In both cases, 2) is unprovable either way because no attempts have been made. That leaves 1), and I've provided plentiful evidence to prove it. That means I've met my burden of proof and evidence is in my favor."

You didn't answer my question though....did you? All of that was regurgitation of old points that we've nailed.

Can you also prove that Doom is affectable from outside, when he's inside his forcefield?

"How's he a magical "powerhouse" when he cheated his way to winning using a combination of smarts and technology? He has no feats to prove that he's any kind of mystical powerhouse other than cheating his way to 2nd place. I'd even be inclined to accept your argument if he created an impenetrable magical forcefield DURING that storyline. But...nothing. Nothing at all."

Doom is a villain, he cheats. The fact that he didn't use it didn't equate to him not having it, coz we know he did. You know he did. The only beef you have is "Why didn't he use it?". Why don't many people do many things? Life's great mysteries.

" And even if the fact that he did in the past and doesn't do it anymore doesn't bother you, the fact that EVEN when he was doing it, he never created a magical shield SHOULD bother you"

I don't get "bothered". Secondly, AGAIN you are equating NOT doing to not HAVING. Which is very drastically wrong.

"You haven't proven Doom can make one."

You haven't proven Storm can affect him through HIS shield or that he is even vulnerable. You've shown that she can effect others.

"I've met half my burden. You've met none of yours."

Quite incredible that you're just ignoring what's contained within my posts. Quoting them separate doesn't make you cool. My point was, she can change air pressure inside shields, right? Great. If she can't get into the shield, what's she gonna do?

"You've done absolutely nothing to shift the probability in the other direction. It's just another energy shield. "

Note how you overlook the fact that it's also JUST probability. Probability doesn't mean much in Marvel does it? Sheer chance is what it is. If she so happens to be able to manipulate Doom's shield, which neither of us have proof of, then that's one thing. She can then effect him through that particular shield but we don't know if she can and I'm not prepared to go by "sheer probability". Doom has magic ability, he hasn't used a shield as a result, not documentedly anyway. Doesn't mean he can't. That all falls on whether you accept that due to being trained by that guy who's name I forget, who was I BELIEVE, quite good at magic, he could create one.

"I disagree with that logic. Having one consistent power doesn't mean that he can't beat Doom. You have you analyze what that power is and why it is. Kitty's one power is to phase through things, destroying all machinery in the process. In a fight against Doom, that's going to beat him because of the very nature of the power. Bedlam controls machinery. It's his one power, but against Doom who lives inside a machine, it's a doozy. I'd give a fight to him. Firelord, can shoot cosmic fire, among other things. But Doom's shields can block it. Firelord is more powerful than Bedlam and Kitty, but he loses to Doom where they won. Why? Because there's nothing in his power that is fundamentally incompatible with Doom's capabilities. Storm - lots of powers. One of them is lightning. Lightning wreaks havoc on machines, etc...."

Again this all boils down to your love of physics, fundamentals and how things work. The past would suggest that writers don't go by this all the time, rarely infact. So I don't know why you apply all this to a comic book battle. If physics were in play, Magneto would probably be able to beat anyone in the Marvel Universe, at all. Infact, he probably wouldn't even exist would he? So you are placing these physics theories everywhere just to take the debate out of topic and into science.

"I am the writer, it's not such a tiny, minute possibility if Electro can control all electrical currents and Doom's entire suit is comprised of electrical currents. That's a very real danger and a very real weakness. Nothing tiny, minute, or microscopic about it."

No, you're a debater on a net forum. As am I.

"You'll note that I asked if they have prep time and access to weapons. I didn't assume it. And I didn't give my answer until I got the poster's answer. Had the poster not answered, I would have gone by the default rules, just like the Rules say. No contradiction whatsoever."

Funny coz I swear Count Quan never posted on the first or second pages of the thread. You posted multiple times after his first post. You said "Doom loses to anyone without Prep. Storm wins." No rules were established at this time.

"Either way, who cares who wrote it? It's been written, and therefore it's a valid feat by Storm"

Yes. "Valid". Don't confuse Valid with referrable.

Continued....

-AC

Continued for Demi:

"Doom has a forcefield, nothing can get through!" (which is also now a dubious claim). And now there's magic forcefields which has can't create. Yes, it looks bad for Doom."

1) You assume she will get through it and while I understand that assumption, that's all it is.

2) Hasn't. Not can't. Don't confuse the two.

To my dear friend Stormic:

Is this thread Rogue Vs Hulk? No. Post that there and I'll deal with you, Galacfront. There's a song by The Faint, called Desperate Guys.

Here's a line: "Oh those desperate guys never had a chance." 😉.

"I have told you the comic book where storm takes out doom and your only argument was that it was written by Claremont. Huh? Personal feelings aside he works for marvel you DO NOT. The comic book is there what happened is laid in stone. I am taking pops at your style because it is immature and quite frankly laughable."

When did I deny the existance of the comic? Your only argument is that you like Claremont. It's not just me, most comic fans know about his reputation to soil comic books. I'm not denying that it happened but as long as Claremont's name is attached to anything it's gonna be looked upon as dubious. Prove me wrong there. Stormic.

"I have supported my arguments with Marvel fact you have NOT. When you are ready to do so please come bk to me. There is a new boy in town he has stood up to you tested your "marvel knowledge" and found it leaves a lot to be desired. Step down your time is done. You had a good run on here IT IS NOW OVER."

Psst, saying it's over doesn't actually meant it is 😉.

Not proven with Marvel fact? Yes, yes I have. Deny it all you want. It's there. Fact can only go so far, I've used fact. You not LIKING it doesn't mean it's not there.

Hahahahahaaah. "There's a new boy in town". There's never been a truer example of different name same old boots than this. Step down? Down from what? When was I up on something? Oh yeah, that would be the pedestal you claim I put myself on wouldn't it Stormfront? You are giving off ultimate tell tale signs of failure. Turning the debate into GS/Stormfront Vs AC, rather than the thread. Funny.

Oh and you spelt "Mwahahahahahaha" wrong in the PM you sent me 😉.

I'm Rick James, slap.

-AC

"Doctor Doom wears a sophisticated suit of nuclear powered, micro-computer-enhanced body armor containing various offensive weaponry, including concussion beams (particle beams) and other devices subject to change; defensive weaponry including a force field (invisible kinetic energy/dimensional shunt) and the ability to charge the surface of his armor with 30,000 volts of electricity; and a self-contained air supply for 4 hours. He has been known to carry a molecular-expander pistol in a belt holster."

I don't know...if Doom's armor creates electricity, wouldn't it be protected by it? I mean, everytime when he uses this thing he would just knock himself out...

"HAHA! I still have my last resort, Fantastic Four! I will use my..."

ZZRZZZZZRS! "OHMYGOD!" *Doom is knocked out*

Human Torch: "...Well, that was easier then I thought..."

Anyway, Doom wins this.