All this talk of dooms shield blah blah blah its not even a factor in this argument AC get off of Dooms d**k. In theyre first and only encounter with a single lightning blast she took his highly acclaimed forcefield out of the equation. With his basic armor left as the only thing protecting him from getting sizzled he ran for his life. She turfed him out of his own castle case closed.
"And for the 1000th time; yes, I don't KNOW that Storm could manipulate inside of Doom's field. But, circumstantial evidence is in my favor. That means if I were in Vegas and I had to place a bet, I'd bet on Storm because she's had 100% success in affecting people through their shields."
Then we agree. I respect that this is your standpoint, you acknowledge that you're no psychic.
"I'm saying she works with the weather, and the weather is EVERYWHERE. Including in your lugs. That air you're breathing? You ain't making it yourself."
And you're serious in saying this? Coz I'm curious.
"That includes EVERYPLACE that environment extends to. That includes the inside of your body. Wind is air. Air is in your lungs. It's all the same thing. It's all connected. You control one, you control them all."
Since when does it include this? Scientifically yes, but since when has Storm had that power?
"If Doom had prep time, then there wouldn't be a debate, because I've said (many times) they Doom with prep time wins. But we're not debating with prep time, are we? The thread author never specified prep time. Even now, he's not."
While we're being technical, he didn't specify no prep either.....did he?
"You don't, and that's precisely the point. You have the earth's weather system flowing through you. It's how your lungs don't collapse. It's how you don't freeze to death. You are, essentially, a glass jar with some openings. If Storm could create a storm inside a glass jar, she can create one inside of you."
Agreed with you on that. This would apply to shield down though, unless she can get through.
"It's no more or less likely than Doom summoning Cytorrak and putting up Juggernaut's forcefield. Storm can just go and take cover someplace, close her eyes, and fill up Doom's lungs. Or give him a heart attack."
And you deny the X-Men pull powers out of their asses? Please. When was the last time this happened? Glass jars aren't armoured suits with endless gadgetry.
"All of which is well and good...if he could see her. Between flash bangs and fog, that's no easy task."
Fog? We forgetting he lives in Eastern Europe? Flash bangs? Doom can do that too.
"YOU say it's not relevant, I say it IS relevant, because with three different types of forcefields, she's affected it from the inside. And in the absense of compelling evidence that would show why Doom's forcefield is the exception, her prior success is EXTREMELY relevant."
Relevant yes, I agree with you. Now we're getting somewhere because you're admitting that it's all speculatory. It could come to light that she can't manipulate inside his shield. BESIDES, even without it, it doesn't guarantee her a win.
"So sorry to prove u wrong once again AC but this can be proven by storms confrontation with Shinobi shaw who could turn intangible."
Why is Shinobi relevant? Demi refers to past experiences. You refer to completely different people.
"He threatened to grab storms heart out of her body and she threatened to manipulate his bioelectric field to shut down his heart. Thats the only time i can recall her portraying that ability but being a hero she resorts to does type of actions only as a last resort. The fights happened storm won its over."
She threatened him with it? But didn't actually do it? If you grabbed Doom and he said "Let me go or I'll destroy the Earth", are you gonna stand there and risk it?
No.
Come with something other than trying to be me and we can talk.
Ciao.
-AC
"All this talk of dooms shield blah blah blah its not even a factor in this argument AC get off of Dooms d**k."
PANG! Did I hit something? A nerve? When did this become a dissing match kid?
Doom's shield isn't a factor? Now who's being ridiculous? Pssst, you.
"In theyre first and only encounter with a single lightning blast she took his highly acclaimed forcefield out of the equation. With his basic armor left as the only thing protecting him from getting sizzled he ran for his life. She turfed him out of his own castle case closed."
No she didn't. His shield was down and she disabled his gauntlet. She can't take down his shield, throw away that theory. She cannot take down his shield.
Why are you saying his shield isn't a factor? Of course it is or we wouldn't be here.
Funny how Demi and I (while disagreeing and both being speculatory/relevant/irrelevant) can go back and forth for ages, yet you come in riding his coat tails and get your childish, name calling self handed back to you.
You're not seeing a corrolation?
-AC
You cant be that stupid AC you really can not be.You made the point that storm has not demonstrated that particular ability. Once again i proved you wrong using marvel fact i have laid out the evidence supporting my argument and again you have resorted to little quips which have not undermined my stance on the topic. You do this all the time. Reply with a fact a quote from an actual comic not stupid far from funny quip that noone wants to hear. As for trying to be you why the hell would i want to downgrade.
Oh no! You called me stupid! How will I ever come back?
"Once again i proved you wrong using marvel fact i have laid out the evidence supporting my argument and again you have resorted to little quips which have not undermined my stance on the topic. You do this all the time. Reply with a fact a quote from an actual comic not stupid far from funny quip that noone wants to hear. As for trying to be you why the hell would i want to downgrade"
90% of that was aimed at me. Attack the debate, not the person. The only thing you've done since you've registered is make stupid, irrelevant points like Doom's shield being a non factor. That and attempting to diss me.
Me and Demi go back and forth, go and find a part where we've verbally abused each other. No? Coz we're above it. We don't agree, but we're not morons.
Stop acting like a neanderthal in a coma and grow the hell up. I've smashed you and every point you've raised.
Deal.
-AC
Ack. Too much posting. Screw this, lol.
ok, I think we're just going to have to let this one go. I think we're mainly arguing the same points over and over, and not getting anywhere. We agree that it's speculation that Storm could or could not do whatever, and that Doom could or could not do whatever. The entire fight, because it's never happened, is speculation.
In the end, my theory is that Storm is able to affect weather through his shield based on her track record of doing it to other shields. Your theory is that Doom's shield is special and will be the exception. You don't accept the track record I laid out as being valid, then there's nothing more I can do but repeat it, and that just makes for circular posts.
Your other theory is that Doom can create magic shields because he knows magic. My theory is that knowing magic doesn't mean you know how to do everything in magic, and that you can only say someone can do things that they've done. Your only proof is that he learned magic, therefore he MUST be able to create impenetrable magic shields. I don't accept that as being valid, so all YOU can do it repeat it, and that just makes for circular posts. I presented circumstantial evidence that casts doubt on his ability to create it. You don't accept that as being valid. All I can do it repeat it, against circular posts.
So given that in the end, our outstanding points of contention are completely a matter of faith, there's really no point in going back and forth for days or weeks.
One last thing - you asked if I truly believe that Storm can create weather conditions inside a person. I'll just answer it this way - if someone wrote a comic and she did it, I wouldn't be shocked, because it would make sense. But I'd never use it in a normal debate, because I prefer to debate things where I've seen someone actually do something. I always figured Magneto could create blackholes, but I didn't start using them in debates until he did it. But maybe that's just me.
Explain how youve smashed every point i delivered. Cos i cant recall a single instance. Ive laid it down and then you made fun of what i have said. You debate with demi yes but me or the others have just had "jokes" as a reply. None of my points have been discredited by yourself so until that situation changes i cant move on to debate with you about other aspects of the post because there is no need. Someone please read from when i first posted on this topic and honestly tell me if hes smashed all my points because i cant see how he has. If he has then i'll move on ive got no problem with that.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Explain how youve smashed every point i delivered. Cos i cant recall a single instance. Ive laid it down and then you made fun of what i have said. You debate with demi yes but me or the others have just had "jokes" as a reply. None of my points have been discredited by yourself so until that situation changes i cant move on to debate with you about other aspects of the post because there is no need. Someone please read from when i first posted on this topic and honestly tell me if hes smashed all my points because i cant see how he has. If he has then i'll move on ive got no problem with that.
Not really. But I think your biggest find is discovering that Storm actually did directly attack Doom's shield and overloaded them, forcing Doom to flee. It's basically been ignored the whole debate, but it's an important discovery.
To Demi:
Well, while I believe this fight is ridiculous. You do not. I've said pages back that I respect that as your choice. It all comes down to speculation on that ONE topic that we keep dancing around technically though. So, no point essaying-it again (if you will). Until it happens, it's what the people posting pro-Doom believe Vs the Anti-Doomers.
"Explain how youve smashed every point i delivered. Cos i cant recall a single instance."
Trying going back and looking at everything you've actually said regarding Doom/Storm. Those instances.
"Ive laid it down and then you made fun of what i have said. You debate with demi yes but me or the others have just had "jokes" as a reply."
Coz you are jokes. Demi, while we don't agree, obviously knows his shit in certain areas of comicdom. You claim, after all this time, that Doom's shield (the most heated issue) is a non-factor. That's worthy of guten laughen.
"None of my points have been discredited by yourself so until that situation changes i cant move on to debate with you about other aspects of the post because there is no need."
Is it just me who sees a white flag?
"Someone please read from when i first posted on this topic and honestly tell me if hes smashed all my points because i cant see how he has. If he has then i'll move on ive got no problem with that."
Anyone wanna indulge?
Bearing in mind he has used insults, I haven't.
I'd hate to think we're not gonna be friends now Galactic....tha....that'd hurt me man.
"Not really. But I think your biggest find is discovering that Storm actually did directly attack Doom's shield and overloaded them, forcing Doom to flee. It's basically been ignored the whole debate, but it's an important discovery."
While we're talking shieldage impact, that would mean Storm had to blast harder than Galactus. Doom's shield cannot be blasted down.
-AC
Originally posted by demigawd
This was before Doom was Doom. It was shortly after his accident when he went around looking to be trained in magic. He became adept in it, but even then, cheated to become runner up in the tournament. When has he used magic since becoming Dr. Doom?
Actaully, no, that's completely wrong. This was THE Dr. Doom, King of Latveria. Not "Doom before he was Doom(wtf!?)" or a Doombot, or anything other than that.
Dr. Doom has use magic against Dormammu to use the time of Bend Sinister for his own purposes.
He used magic in a 3-issue Marvel Team-Up against Dark Rider,
He used magic to rescue Sue Richards and her baby (sounds crazy, I know, but it happened. He was allowed to name the baby, and called her "Valeria"😉.
He used magic to use the soul of the only woman he ever loved(her name was Valeria. Guess where he got the name for the baby from?) to create a new mystical armor to use against the FF.
And to top it all off, he once used magic to strip the FF of their powers.
Enough magic for you, or does Doom have to pull a rabbit out of his ass?
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Actaully, no, that's completely wrong. This was THE Dr. Doom, King of Latveria. Not "Doom before he was Doom(wtf!?)" or a Doombot, or anything other than that.
I know that. I mean that was Doom before he took on the Doom persona that we know today.
I've previously named much of those magic feats. The ones in Unthinkable came because he sold his soul to demons to GAIN magical ability to combat the Fantastic Four. He didn't have any such power prior to that. The rest were the result of rituals, seances and the use of magic artifacts that he specifically aqcuired and brought with him. Not combat magic. Not anything he could do in a no-prep situation.
Why are you arguing this point, when you said yourself: "You're saying the only acceptable evidence that something will happen is if something *has* happened in that exact instance? If that's the case, then there's no real point to debating 95% of the battles on this board."
And to top it off, DOOM HAS DONE IT BEFORE, and you're trying to push it aside like it doesn't count. Jesus. You're trying so hard that you're stepping on your own toes.
Face it, Doom has used magic in combat and was successful. Stop trying to deny it and push it aside with stuff like "But tha twas Doom before Doom"(again, wtf!?)
I never argued the point that Doom knows magic. I'm saying two things:
1)Doom has never created an impenetrable magic shield, which is why the whole magic part of the debate is about in the first place
2)I casted doubt over his combat magic capabilities in the first place. You CAN'T use Doom's magic feats in Unthinkable any more than you could say that Superman can create huge electrical currents that can fry the city because he did it as Superman Blue. So unless you're now pitting Storm against Doom with skin armor, you can't reference Unthinkable as proof of what he'd do to Storm.