which mutants are omega level??

this is a great discussion.

some people believe that there are (so far) only three true omega mutants. jean grey (phoenix), iceman and franklin richards. jean as phoenix can exist outside a human body and her powers are unlimited. iceman in his current state can be alive without a body and still retain his powers. and franklin's reality-warping powers are beyond any others.

franklin's powers could have, perhaps, been rivaled by mad jim jaspers. the council at otherworld feared an out of control jim so much that they actually excused destroying an entire universe as keeping him from causing trouble. he also created sentient life, as far as it seems. in the here and now, franklin's probably got the strongest mutant gene this side of eternity. but maybe not of all time.

and all of those are good arguments to prove jubilee's versatility, but none seem to imply that she has infinite potential, or that perhaps she can escape the form of a human body through some sort of transcendence (the only common threads between omegas.) she's clearly more powerful than she's often made out to be, but highlighting her pinnacle moments doesn't mean she's necessarily omega. that same style of argument could be made for most any mutant.

and elixir's an omega level mutant because his ability to warp genetics will have no limit when he comes into his powers. i mean, we have to remember that iceman started off by covering himself in snow, and jean couldn't even handle her telepathy at first, and had to operate solely on telekinesis. and considering that elixir naturally was able to cure such ailments as amara's coma, rahne's loss of powers, and save himself from death by turning all shiny and golden, he seems to be coming into the powers much more quickly than most. he hasn't, however, shown any non-human form, unless you count his new hair and skin (which i dont.)

Originally posted by Disappear
none seem to imply that she ... can escape the form of a human body through some sort of transcendence (the only common threads between omegas.)

he hasn't, however, shown any non-human form, unless you count his new hair and skin (which i dont.)

it seems to be a common trait among omegas to 'transcend' to a 'higher plane' of existence. bobby can exist as a faux-astral body and inhabit even the most miniscule amounts of water. jean has her whole phoenix thing going. quentin turned to fluffy green energy. but, considering josh isn't particularly experienced, and he's not on the verge of a traumatic event such as dying, it's easily explained why he hasn't "ascended" just yet, and may not, considering his powers are derivative of the human body itself.

jubilee makes paffs. unless she starts turning into her paffs, there's really nothing to say she's an omega-class mutant. former colleague chamber, however, is essentially sentient energy in a lifeless human shell. hence, he's closer to the distinction of an omega than is jubilee. what's not to understand?

Originally posted by Disappear
it seems to be a common trait among omegas to 'transcend' to a 'higher plane' of existence. bobby can exist as a faux-astral body and inhabit even the most miniscule amounts of water. jean has her whole phoenix thing going. quentin turned to fluffy green energy. but, considering josh isn't particularly experienced, and he's not on the verge of a traumatic event such as dying, it's easily explained why he hasn't "ascended" just yet, and may not, considering his powers are derivative of the human body itself.

jubilee makes paffs. unless she starts turning into her paffs, there's really nothing to say she's an omega-class mutant. former colleague chamber, however, is essentially sentient energy in a lifeless human shell. hence, he's closer to the distinction of an omega than is jubilee. what's not to understand?

How can it be called a common thread if it's not common.

He might in the future, but you can't call it a common thread, untill it is.

Fact is we still don't know what quantifies an omega level mutant, So at present we don't know who qualifies. As such with what we HAVE seen Jubilee is still as viablea canidate as anyone else..

I never argued against Chamber.

Though I'd repost this:

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The four confirmed Omega mutants are:
Quentin Quire
Elixir
Phoenix
Iceman

An important thing that Elixir shows is that the power does not necessarily have to be destructive/offensive in nature.
If you want to define what should be considered an Omega mutant you should instead consider what the common features are between these four mutants.

Imo defining Omega has two criteria - type of power and level/potential of power - and both must be fulfilled in order to qualify.

Type of power:
Psionic manipulation of one or more (forms of) components of Marvel reality - matter, energy and consciousness.
Phoenix - matter and energy in general, and consciousness.
Iceman - kinetic energy
Kid Omega - consciousness
Elixir - organic matter, biochemical energetics

Level of power:
Their powers have the potential to expand in such an exponential fashion that their limits - if they do indeed have limits at all - to what they can do with their powers and to what scale they can use them are so far above other mutants that they effectively have no limits when compared to other mutants. The four confirmed Omega's are at different stages in their powers.
Phoenix has achieved her full potential.
Iceman has achieved some of his potential.
Kid Omega has to an extent as well.
Elixir hasn't yet done anything that impressive.

With younger mutants there is more leeway for them to be later revealed as omega mutants. For the old guard I'd say it is unlikely e.g. Xavier is imo a very powerful alpha mutant but not an omega - he's lived about 60 years(?), his powers are pretty much honed to their attainable maximum.

Three of the four have also shown the ability to transcend a corporeal form and exist as a a self-sustaining consciousness that may inhabit inorganic matter and/or energy (with Elixir being the only exception). So the ability to do this as power develops may be a requirement as well - however it may not be. All of the mutants acquired their powers naturally so imo mutants that have been enhanced by technological means should not be considered.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So you know for certain that constructive use of powers is a requirment for being an omega?

And before that, i posted the following:

Originally posted by wannabe
There are no explicitly stated parameters for omega level, but there are good hints and suggestions given through the confirmed Omegas and by some authors.

1) Omega is the POTENTIAL (not the actually shown power) for so called ultimate mutation.

2) It was stated, that Phoenix is the expression of Jeans ultimate mutation, so one COULD imagine that it has something to do with the ability to tap into the force of creation.
Quentin, ascending and reaching his ultimate potential as an omega while dying and then being in the White Hot Room as a Phoenix, supports this theory.
Since Rachel is linked to that force just like her mother, she is MOST LIKELY an omega.

3) Since Franklin is described in a similar way as Jean, being some some sort of an unparalleled mutant and loking at the power he expressed so far, he is PROBABLY an omega too.

4) Looking at Phoenix, Quentin and Iceman, the omega level seems to include the ability to transcend beyond the need for a human body AT ONE POINT; it can then be a useful instrument but nothing more. Also the powers of omegas seem to manipulate matter, energy, time and/or mind.

5) Gambit and Storm do manipulate energy and matter. As New Sun, Gambit showed enormous potential and in AoA it was shown, that Storm will someday be able to transcend her human body and become a being pure elemental energy, similar to Iceman...so these two MIGHT be omegas as well.

Originally posted by wannabe
Just in case you didn't notice, i said:"I'm not certain about that, since her powers are solely destructive and the powers of all confirmed omegas also include a strong creative aspect!
I know i spoke for Gambit as New Sun, but then i have to admit that all i know about him is from this forum and i'm not sure if New Sun is in any way creative or only destructive."!
You see how i use the words "I'M NOT CERTAIN"???!!!

And before that, i posted the following😄o you still think that your question is in any way reasonable?

You can find the answer to that question here.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You can find the answer to that question here.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=common

read the second and third derivations, and also consider the nature of elixir's powers and his experiences as compared to other omegas, and come back to me with a clear reason why what i said didn't make sense...

Whom do you adress??? 🤨

i wouldn't dream of speaking to a member of the psi corps as such. that was surely directed toward the one who questioned the interpretation of the word 'common.'

Originally posted by Disappear
i wouldn't dream of speaking to a member of the psi corps as such. that was surely directed toward the one who questioned the interpretation of the word 'common.'

I pointed out how you contradicted yourself.

You still can't refer to it as a common thread if you say its not something they share.

Simple no?

Read Xmarksthespot's post.

there was no contradiction. it's a common trait of omegas to evolve past the human form as they ascend toward their full potential. elixir, a teenager, has already shown some form of self-alteration due to his powers, though he hasn't quite hit the pinnacle yet. where's that a contradiction?

here's how the other omegas did it.

jean encounters the phoenix force while dying of radiation poisoning, or with the retcon she could just be transcending to a higher state of being. who knows the exact specs at this point? truth is, though, that radiation was eating her body. very traumatic, very easily excused as the onset of her 'omega transformation.'

bobby has his body turned from that of a human body to that of a puddle by mikhail 'i warp all matter and energy how i please' rasputin. rasputin reformed him to living ice. on top of that, there was the entire emma frost incident which exposed the depths of his potential that he hadn't been using. in essence, he didn't come into this power on his own.

kid omega died, and courtesy of his mutation and some Kick, he went through some variety of metamorphosis that made him an unstable form of energy. he only came back to animation because of the phoenix force's activity on earth. traumatic event leads to his "ascent," ungodly power leads to his return to life in his new form. pretty standard.

elixir, a kid with healing powers, saves himself from death by using his powers on himself. it's not really a high-level trauma, considering it healed instinctively, but he did turn all pretty and shiny. consider it a lesser form of evolution if you will, but there are tons of reasons why he hasn't hit that point yet. on top of that, he's a confirmed omega.

jubilee's had decades of history to show some sort of omega potential, and she hasn't. on top of that, no one's come out and said "jubilee's a mutant with omega-level potential to create colorful explosions." i just don't understand how you trying fruitlessly to discredit what i've said would at all strengthen the 'jubilee could be omega' case.

Originally posted by Disappear
there was no contradiction. it's a common trait of omegas to evolve past the human form as they ascend toward their full potential. elixir, a teenager, has already shown some form of self-alteration due to his powers, though he hasn't quite hit the pinnacle yet. where's that a contradiction?

here's how the other omegas did it.

jean encounters the phoenix force while dying of radiation poisoning, or with the retcon she could just be transcending to a higher state of being. who knows the exact specs at this point? truth is, though, that radiation was eating her body. very traumatic, very easily excused as the onset of her 'omega transformation.'

bobby has his body turned from that of a human body to that of a puddle by mikhail 'i warp all matter and energy how i please' rasputin. rasputin reformed him to living ice. on top of that, there was the entire emma frost incident which exposed the depths of his potential that he hadn't been using. in essence, he didn't come into this power on his own.

kid omega died, and courtesy of his mutation and some Kick, he went through some variety of metamorphosis that made him an unstable form of energy. he only came back to animation because of the phoenix force's activity on earth. traumatic event leads to his "ascent," ungodly power leads to his return to life in his new form. pretty standard.

elixir, a kid with healing powers, saves himself from death by using his powers on himself. it's not really a high-level trauma, considering it healed instinctively, but he did turn all pretty and shiny. consider it a lesser form of evolution if you will, but there are tons of reasons why he hasn't hit that point yet. on top of that, he's a confirmed omega.

jubilee's had decades of history to show some sort of omega potential, and she hasn't. on top of that, no one's come out and said "jubilee's a mutant with omega-level potential to create colorful explosions." i just don't understand how you trying fruitlessly to discredit what i've said would at all strengthen the 'jubilee could be omega' case.

You said that transendence was something they all had, thus a common thread. AND THEN you said you didn't think Elixer had transendence.

That is a contradiction. Either Elixer has (read Xmarksthespot's post to see that it's more than likely has) or they have not and transendence isn't something that all the Omega's have.

It's also a common trait that all the confirmed omegas are Caucasian and were born in the United States (as far as we can tell). Just because some traits are similar doesn't mean that those traits are essential to what makes them omegas.

If transcending the physical body were a requirement, then wouldn't most, if not all, accomplished TPs be considered omega? The Shadowking hasn't existed in his own body since who knows when.

I think omega has more to do with what people can do with their powers than how they exist.

I also wonder about Franklin. He's a special case. As the child of parents inundated with a healthy dose of cosmic radiation (or whatever it was that gave the FF their powers), his parents DNA was already altered. Would he have been a mutant if they hadn't been exposed? Would he be a mutant but not as powerful? I don't know...

It makes sense to me that Rachel is an omega, because Marvel has repeatedly stated that Rachel inherited her mother's powers as Marvel Girl. I think that all of Jean Grey's progeny (test tube and all) are more likely than not omegas, because the only limit to what they can do is their mind.

I wonder how Mr. Foley's powers will develop. What exactly does he do? Do his powers only affect people? Would he be able to keep himself from dying? He couldn't when he cured AIDS and cancer (although it was only a vision by Dani and Emma). I'm very curious to see how he's going to develop.

Read HoM #7. Imo it's safe to say Wanda is an Omega.

to say that all omegas are believed to transcend past the human form is not the same as saying all those transcend are omegas. the shadow king, for example, is not a confirmed omega, though he exists solely as an astral body. jeffrey garrett of the new x-men: academy x series exists as some variety of living ghost, though he's not a confirmed omega. king bedlam once said about paradigm, a techokinetic mutant whose body has become irrevocably fused with phalanx matter, "i imagine one day he'll no longer need to maintain a human shape." thunderbird III becomes living solar plasma. saying transcendence is a trait of omegas is not false if there are non-omegas who also transcend.

and creshock, you attempt to demean this theory, put forth by beast himself, because one teenage mutant hasn't hit the mark yet? evolving past the human form is not what makes an omega an omega. they've all been omegas since birth, considering it's genetic. it's simply a benchmark in their evolution toward their infinite potential. there's been no contradiction.

as for josh's powers, keep in mind that cell samples were taken from him as he is now in that illusionary scenario. his powers may simply have not evolved to the point where he can cure such worldwide problems as cancer and AIDS yet, though it remains to be seen. that scenario was also not truly a "this will happen if you leave" type of illusion, but it brought out prodigy's worst fears (a moonstar specialty) about what could happen. josh is still largely undeveloped, though he should be fun to watch, provided the new academy x team doesn't screw him up.

rachel being an omega's also generally speculation at this point, though is likely the direction marvel will go with her. her powers were jean's and then some during her early days, but this was before the omega concept was brought to the surface, and long before the recent changes to the phoenix status quo. rachel comes off as a bumbling novice these days, despite having been extraordinarily powerful during excalibur, and despite the now-erased askani timeline. where they go with her is up to the writers, though it would seem to make sense to have her be yet another confirmed omega. whether cable or x-man would fit those classifications (though likely) isn't proven. legion was a walking god on the face of the earth, but that doesn't necessarily classify him as an omega.

franklin, eh, what's the point in speculating? he is a mutant, he's one of the strongest expressions of the mutant gene out there, and his hypothetical future kid was ten times his superior. though noone's out and out said "franklin's an omega," every other possible terminology to infer such has been used.

pardon me, i seem to have gotten my geneticists confused. beast is the one with the various 'secondary mutation' affirmations under his belt. it was xavier who coined the term omega, first seen in the ever-quotable x-men: forever.

and creshock, you attempt to demean this theory, put forth by beast himself, because one teenage mutant hasn't hit the mark yet? evolving past the human form is not what makes an omega an omega. they've all been omegas since birth, considering it's genetic. it's simply a benchmark in their evolution toward their infinite potential. there's been no contradiction.

I'm not demeaning anything. I'm tell you that if you present a theory you should belive in it. Otherwise its like saying "Well Omega mutants all seem to be caucasian"

I don't believe in it and it holds no real truth.

"All omega mutants cab shoot icecream from their foreheads. Except for Jean. . . And elixer . . . and Quintin. . . okay I don't even think Iceman does it."

It makes the theory sound weak. Go read X's post again. Elixer most likely has, but due to the nature of his powers compared to the other Omega's it probably wouldn't quite be the same. Iceman can put his conciousness into water vapor. So it's possible that elixer can store his in his powers association.