Originally posted by minijedilil bitchiness asked why so many dislike Mace Windu. I think we were meant to. I think the Mace Windu character is supposed to personify Jedi arrogance. His character is meant to show us where the Jedi teachings went wrong IMO.
I dont think Mace is that arrogant, actually. He is arrogant, even yoda implys that, but i dont think he is overly so. But that just me.
qui gon
i believe anakins downfall comes from Qui-Gon being killed, Obi-Wan was not ready to take on Anakin not enough experience and he never trusted Anakin always doubted him, always lecturing, Anakin respected Qui-Gon in a way he could never respect Obi...
Had the council done denied Anakin Jedi-Master Qui-Gon would have been there rebelling with Anakin, not working against him in distrust....
Originally posted by Supermann98
If Anakin would have helped Mace kill Sidious when the chance was there the clones would have remained loyal to the Jedi. But because the Jedi did not trust him or show him respect he returned those sentiments. Mace went "bye-bye" ... and the slaughter began.
No had Anakin killed Sidious then Padme would probably still be alive considering Sidious has been trying to kill her for years.
Originally posted by Cascador
sorry but I disagree that Obi-Wan shows enough respect to Anakin. Anakin did what was requested of us. Protect the Senator. The concequences of him going to Tatooine is the lack of parenthood he missed. If Obi-Wan was more like a father to him, he would focus less on his mother and accept his destiny as a Jedi. Obviously Obi-Wan didn't taught him that very good! The fact that he tried to save him, was the respect he had for his master, but how did Obi-Wan react? With a sarcastic joke...never suspect something like that from a Jedi Master! Again less of respect and motivation he gave to him. It's not his fault he failed in the droid factory. He was overwhelmed.
But Obi-Wan does respect Anakin a lot of people respect Anakin, but to Anakin its never enough. Also Anakin did tell Obi-Wan in AOTC that he was like a father to him. Well Anakin also was told to stayand protect the Senator. What if Mace and the jedi could not get to Genosisis to save them. Anakin Padme and Obi-Wan wouldve been dead.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Anakin was reckless and power hungry - and the reason he chose Palpatine was because Palpatine knew Anakin's weak spot and he played on it. He was offering him a unimaginable power - which is pretty much what Anakin wanted.What was the difficult decision?! Obi Wan was the one that acted like some kind of a father figure, while Palpetine acted as an exploiter. If Anakin was less arrogant, less power hungry he would have seen right through Palpatine.
It had nothing to do with ''hard to chose father figure'' but it had to do with Anakin's thirst for power and his arogance.
Anakin is my fave character by far as Anakin and as Darth Vader, but im looking at this from a neutral perspective. It simply isnt all Jedi fault.
Exactly and the sad thing he knows that Sidious/Palps is evil and a Sith Lord(the very same sith lord that has been trying to kill his wife for years) yet in still he ignores that and keeps him alive for his own selfish reasons even at the expense of his marriage with Padme. Padme's demise I place on Anakin and Anakin alone.
Originally posted by Cascador
exactly! power thirst are not really the right words for this...he seeks power but not for his own, not like a Sith, but he had no choice, to save Padmé he had to become one...that's why you hear as I said on another topic the dual of fates when he goes searching for his mother...he thinks he has the power, he will be a Sith, his fate is sealed! He couldn't save her. He wants power to save the ones he loves...Padmé...so we could also blame her! lol
No we blame Anakin for putting Padme in that position. He had no right to place that emotional burden upon her by murdering and slaughtering people and using her as an excuse to commit his evil deeds. Also GL says that Anakin goes from wanting the power to change people's fates to wanting to rule the galaxy. He is power hungry that is the nature of the SITH
Originally posted by JediMasterLuke
No we blame Anakin for putting Padme in that position. He had no right to place that emotional burden upon her by murdering and slaughtering people and using her as an excuse to commit his evil deeds. Also GL says that Anakin goes from wanting the power to change people's fates to wanting to rule the galaxy. He is power hungry that is the nature of the SITH
Using her as an evil excuse to do evil deeds? the slaughtering of the Tuskens had nothing to do with Padmé but love for his mother. The power he sought was to save Padmé's life because he loved her...is love an evil deed? I don't say he did the right thing...not at all. But that is because the Jedi didn't take Anakin for granted enough and were too stupid too see that he was manipulated by Palpatine. Searching for his mother was wrong in the first place. Why did they sent Anakin with Padmé in ep II in the first place cause any danger of attachment was obvious enough to forsee, but were too foolish or blind to forsee that, Obi-Wan probably forsaw it, but he did nothing. A bad master, a bad manipulator were the result why Anakin became a Sith.
Originally posted by Darth Plegueis
Maybe its the way Sam Jackson delivers the lines. In the trailer when he tells Ani that he won't be a master, it comes across kind of "so there!"ish.
qui-gon was kinda the same way..he pretty much told obi wan to shut his mouth when obi wan was trying to say how dangerous anakin was..i believe qui-gon said somethingl like "that will be enough out of you now get on board" you could even say qui-gon was arrogant in some ways
Originally posted by Malic Clanorian
qui-gon was kinda the same way..he pretty much told obi wan to shut his mouth when obi wan was trying to say how dangerous anakin was..i believe qui-gon said somethingl like "that will be enough out of you now get on board" you could even say qui-gon was arrogant in some ways
I wouldn't say Qui-Gon is arrogant, but rebellious. He was a strict teacher, but you can see he still has a good bond with Obi-Wan if you watch them talk it varies into bad and good discussions...Anakin and Obi-Wan only had bad ones in ep II. Take the one of Anakin's nightmare...Anakin forsaw the future, but Obi-Wan didn't give a sith and said it would pass. Obi-Wan doesn't seem to know all Anakin's powers very well, but Qui-Gon knew he could look into the future. That's one of the reasons why Qui-Gon would be a better master to Anakin. They already had a strong bond in TPM.
Originally posted by Cascador
Using her as an evil excuse to do evil deeds? the slaughtering of the Tuskens had nothing to do with Padmé but love for his mother. The power he sought was to save Padmé's life because he loved her...is love an evil deed? I don't say he did the right thing...not at all. But that is because the Jedi didn't take Anakin for granted enough and were too stupid too see that he was manipulated by Palpatine. Searching for his mother was wrong in the first place. Why did they sent Anakin with Padmé in ep II in the first place cause any danger of attachment was obvious enough to forsee, but were too foolish or blind to forsee that, Obi-Wan probably forsaw it, but he did nothing. A bad master, a bad manipulator were the result why Anakin became a Sith.
No using her as an excuse to do his evil deeds. Also if he loved her he would have known that Padme would never condone slaughtering the jedi including children give her that much credit. Also Anakin knew Palps/Sidious was a Sith Lord and he allowed his own weaknesses to be used against him if anyone is stupid it is Anakin. He had a chance to get rid of Sidious and he didnt. Also Anakin became a Sith because he wanted to no one told him to
Originally posted by Cascador
I wouldn't say Qui-Gon is arrogant, but rebellious. He was a strict teacher, but you can see he still has a good bond with Obi-Wan if you watch them talk it varies into bad and good discussions...Anakin and Obi-Wan only had bad ones in ep II. Take the one of Anakin's nightmare...Anakin forsaw the future, but Obi-Wan didn't give a sith and said it would pass. Obi-Wan doesn't seem to know all Anakin's powers very well, but Qui-Gon knew he could look into the future. That's one of the reasons why Qui-Gon would be a better master to Anakin. They already had a strong bond in TPM.
But that Obi-Anakin was one scene. He also told Anakin that he was focusing too much on the negative while they were in the elevator on to see Padme. He was trying to reassure his Padawan that Padme would be happy to see him
How could Qui-Gon possibly have a stronger bond with Anakin.Also should it matter who the teacher is? Anakin could not control his own emotions enough to see a pregnant woman such as Padme pleading for her life as he chokes her (You call that LOVE?!!!). No I dont fault the jedi for that I fault Anakin.