God Like Cable vs Superman

Originally posted by carver9
Hhhmmm, I can see how you would come up with that.

I also think we are talking about 2 different fights. I will find at least part of the fight for you because I don't remember anything stating that Cable almost died.

Cable actually did die at one point, now that I think about it, and Storm had to hit him with a lightning bolt to bring him back.

Unless there was a second "Cable and Storm Vs Hulk" fight?

Originally posted by carver9
Cable was weakened during the time he fought Surfer.

you've yet to prove that, or to provide quantifiable evidence.

So convenient for Cable to be "weak" when fighting Surfer duriroll

Originally posted by leonidas
this. and there is a LOT wrong with several other posts but honestly i can no longer be bothered.....

this is making for interesting discussion though. so do most seem to think a strong tk'er can simply blow up the brain of superman?? what about ss?? why didn't cable attack ss that way?

You've put your finger on the central problem -- as much as I dislike Carver's distortions, Cable appeared to have at least as much power and control as Black, and possibly much more, yet it seems ridiculous to claim that everyone with that kind of TK (including Black) can just give aneurisms to folks like Supes, Thor (where it isn't even a question of speedblitzing), Black Adam, Hulk, etc. What would really help would be for Black to be brought back and given more showings.

Blowing up a skull and crushing a capillary (that's what Black did right?) are vastly different.

Originally posted by leonidas
this. and there is a LOT wrong with several other posts but honestly i can no longer be bothered.....

this is making for interesting discussion though. so do most seem to think a strong tk'er can simply blow up the brain of superman?? what about ss?? why didn't cable attack ss that way?

SS is the elite herald level molecule manipulator, both he and cable were manipulating the plans scape at the atomic level while fighting each other. Hence cable blowing up his brain with tk, is not a tactic that would have likely worked. Though i do believe it is a very viable tactic against people without this level of molecular control.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cable actually did die at one point, now that I think about it, and Storm had to hit him with a lightning bolt to bring him back.

Unless there was a second "Cable and Storm Vs Hulk" fight?

you've yet to prove that, or to provide quantifiable evidence.

Ok, that did happen but that happened during the second part of the fight. The first initial attack that Hulk did, Cable was withstanding his attacks. During the second comic, after Storm threw a building on Hulk making him even more angrier, that's when he almost killed Cable.

I showed you a scan that mentioned Cable was weakening on page 8.

Originally posted by Simbon
You've put your finger on the central problem -- as much as I dislike Carver's distortions, Cable appeared to have at least as much power and control as Black, and possibly much more, yet it seems ridiculous to claim that everyone with that kind of TK (including Black) can just give aneurisms to folks like Supes, Thor (where it isn't even a question of speedblitzing), Black Adam, Hulk, etc. What would really help would be for Black to be brought back and given more showings.

I don't even think Cable needs to take this route to win. His power were pretty much high herald, even during his weakest.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, that did happen but that happened during the second part of the fight. The first initial attack that Hulk did, Cable was withstanding his attacks. During the second comic, after Storm threw a building on Hulk making him even more angrier, that's when he almost killed Cable.

I showed you a scan that mentioned Cable was weakening on page 8.

cable was on the run the entire time. he admitted himself that he was barely holding hulk off. hulk was winning the fight, and it was made obvious.

they thought he was weakening. that's not proof, and even if it was, it isn't quantifiable as to how much he was weakening.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't even think Cable needs to take this route to win. His power were pretty much high herald, even during his weakest.

I'm not sure he does either; I just think the TK in the brain issue is the most interesting part of the debate. TBH I am still undecided on this one.

Originally posted by -Pr-
cable was on the run the entire time. he admitted himself that he was barely holding hulk off. hulk was winning the fight, and it was made obvious.

they thought he was weakening. that's not proof, and even if it was, it isn't quantifiable as to how much he was weakening.

Yes, he admitted this and yes, he was on the run but he really didn't attack Hulk at all, he was just passing threats, even during the time Hulk was pounding on him (when he was telling Hulk that he was going to peel his brain like an orange). The point of my post wasn't to say that Cable was>Hulk during that time, my point was to prove that Cable during that time could have possibly been more powerful than Exodus... the same Exodus that fought Hulk and lost in like 2 panels.

I'm no disagreeing with you and I never argued that you were wrong. I don't even know why we are debating this when I told you that I didn't even mean the word "effect", it was a typo. That fight alone puts Exodus below Cable.

As for him being depowered or "losing power", how am I suppose to prove that unless we actually use statements? Cable was dying and he even admits this during his fight with Surfer (stating... time is almost out). He didn't have long to go and his PL was eating away at his body.

Originally posted by Simbon
I'm not sure he does either; I just think the TK in the brain issue is the most interesting part of the debate. TBH I am still undecided on this one.

But why wouldn't it work? We have evidence that Cable can attack from the inside out... we also have evidence that Cable was a high end TK user... we also have evidence that Cable TK powers were so extreme that he was matter manipulating on unknown levels.

It should work imo but its not needed here.

Originally posted by carver9
Exodus fought Hulk and got 2 paneled

when did this happen?

Originally posted by carver9
where Cable "before" even receiving this massive upgrade, a Cable that was exploring his TK and TP fought an ENRAGE Hulk and sat there and let Hulk POUND on him to no effect. His shields that surrounds his body were basically unbreachable. Then Cable was telepathically linked to every being on the Planet during that run and knew everyones move before they did it...

I think you missed my point. Having atomic level TK doesn't put you above people who fight Superman... Exodus reconstructed Xavier's brain, atom by atom, and brought him back to life, or constructed a Cerebro unit out a helicarrier. I don't think Manchester has those type of TK skills (I'm not sure though) and I am unaware of a time where Cable has done something that precise with his tk... God Cable and Manchester are both more powerful telepaths than is Exodus

Originally posted by carver9
But why wouldn't it work? We have evidence that Cable can attack from the inside out... we also have evidence that Cable was a high end TK user... we also have evidence that Cable TK powers were so extreme that he was matter manipulating on unknown levels.

It should work imo but its not needed here.

The reason it shouldn't work is because superdurability tends to trump such strategies, and the only reason anyone is even contemplating the notion that Exodus, Cable, or X-man could WTF pawn Superman, Thor, et cetera via aneurism is because of a SINGLE feat by Manchester Black. If it were not for that feat, no one would be discussing whether or not Nate could win via capillary squeeze.Moreover, if Black were brought back, do you imagine this would be a recurrent technique of his against high heralds? Because frankly I don't think it would.

Originally posted by inimalist
when did this happen?

I think you missed my point. Having atomic level TK doesn't put you above people who fight Superman... Exodus reconstructed Xavier's brain, atom by atom, and brought him back to life, or constructed a Cerebro unit out a helicarrier. I don't think Manchester has those type of TK skills (I'm not sure though) and I am unaware of a time where Cable has done something that precise with his tk... God Cable and Manchester are both more powerful telepaths than is Exodus

I hope this is canon. You all are more familiar on canon events than I am but this is the fight that I am talking about.

Enjoy

Hulk vs. Exodus. IH vol. 2 #84
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7008/exodus1a1yw.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7038/exodus1b1ii.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3679/exodus1c5ks.jpg

House of M

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, he admitted this and yes, he was on the run but he really didn't attack Hulk at all, he was just passing threats, even during the time Hulk was pounding on him (when he was telling Hulk that he was going to peel his brain like an orange). The point of my post wasn't to say that Cable was>Hulk during that time, my point was to prove that Cable during that time could have possibly been more powerful than Exodus... the same Exodus that fought Hulk and lost in like 2 panels.

I'm no disagreeing with you and I never argued that you were wrong. I don't even know why we are debating this when I told you that I didn't even mean the word "effect", it was a typo. That fight alone puts Exodus below Cable.

As for him being depowered or "losing power", how am I suppose to prove that unless we actually use statements? Cable was dying and he even admits this during his fight with Surfer (stating... time is almost out). He didn't have long to go and his PL was eating away at his body.

he didn't attack hulk because he (rightly) didn't feel like he could take him. i don't know about his power level, but i don't see how it matters.

except that we don't know how much "weaker" he was than his so-called healthy levels.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
House of M

yup.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
House of M

Wasn't house of M based off of canon events or am I wrong?

Originally posted by carver9
Wasn't house of M based off of canon events or am I wrong?

it's an alternate universe/timeline, and is as such unusable.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's an alternate universe/timeline, and is as such unusable.

Lol... I think you enjoy telling me that.

Inimalist... I take back my post then... I don't know who is more powerful out of Exodus and Cable... both have insane feats.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I think you enjoy telling me that.

Inimalist... I take back my post then... I don't know who is more powerful out of Exodus and Cable... both have insane feats.

Well you keep bringing it up. sneer