God Like Cable vs Superman

Originally posted by carver9
What about using his TK in ways of rebuilding portion of cities all the way down to the atomic level during the time him and Surfer were fighting... or using it to make him invisible, teleport beings to the moon, etc, etc...

MB doesn't come close to Cable control over TK... I feel pretty much safe at saying that Cable can replicate any TK feat of MB on a much higher scale since, well, his TK was on a planetary level.

Again that's great and shows that his powers with TK in other areas are more expansive than MB (with his handful of appearances) but it still not like anything MB did.

For one it's obvious that Supes is too durable for Cable to break down to the molecular level. Supes is not like the matter that made up that city.

If that's the extent of his application with TK then he's not going to know how to get the most out of it against Supes - and this is important because I'll get back to it.

I'm not talking about what Cable can do I'm talking about what Cable has done. You're speculating that Cable can do the same thing MB did, and I agree that he can do it, but I disagree that he would.

I don't think it would even cross his mind that he can do this based on how he's used TK before. The DP example is relevant because, really, MB showed more control in this area and better creativity too.

Originally posted by Simbon
The point is that molecule manipulation requires a great deal more precision and control than clamping capillaries.

Didn't disagree. But using pure TK to molecular control a guy on Supes level is not an option for Cable, which is why I wasn't talking about his city building feats etc. We're talking about tearing apart the structural forces that keep a guy like Supes together, ignoring the fact that he can control his molecules to some degree, the amount of TK energy needed to do that would be beyond Cable.

The point that seems to have flown over everyone's head is the part about control. When I talk about control I'm not saying clamping capillaries is more difficult than manip'ing molecules, I'm saying it shows a deftness and a level of restraint and precision that many TKers don't show.

What takes less energy, tearing apart someone's brain to the molecular level or clamping capillaries? What uses more energy a grenade to the face that kills its target or an acupuncture needle to the nerves that does the same thing? One is less complex but more deft and precise. The other is more complex but less deft.

Originally posted by Allankles
Again that's great and shows that his powers with TK in other areas are more expansive than MB (with his handful of appearances) but it still not like anything MB did.

For one it's obvious that Supes is too durable for Cable to break down to the molecular level. Supes is not like the matter that made up that city.

If that's the extent of his application with TK then he's not going to know how to get the most out of it against Supes - and this is important because I'll get back to it.

I'm not talking about what Cable [b]can do I'm talking about what Cable has done. You're speculating that Cable can do the same thing MB did, and I agree that he can do it, but I disagree that he would.

I don't think it would even cross his mind that he can do this based on how he's used TK before. The DP example is relevant because, really, MB showed more control in this area and better creativity too. [/B]

On 2 occassions Cable has did a brain attack... one 2 occassions, Cable has atomized limbs... its in character for him to use those type of attacks. What we do know is that Cable TK and TP is>>Manchester, so how would he fail?

I don't get it. If he can use his TK in ways that MB could only hope of ever doing, how can he accomplish something that Cable can't. How can someone with better control of their power fail at something a weaker person has done?

Originally posted by Allankles
Didn't disagree. But using pure TK to molecular control a guy on Supes level is not an option for Cable, which is why I wasn't talking about his city building feats etc. We're talking about tearing apart the structural forces that keep a guy like Supes together, ignoring the fact that he can control his molecules to some degree, the amount of TK energy needed to do that would be beyond Cable.

The point that seems to have flown over everyone's head is the part about control. When I talk about control I'm not saying clamping capillaries is more difficult than manip'ing molecules, I'm saying it shows a deftness and a level of restraint and precision that many TKers don't show.

What takes less energy, tearing apart someone's brain to the molecular level or clamping capillaries? What uses more energy a grenade to the face that kills its target or an acupuncture needle to the nerves that does the same thing? One is less complex but more deft and precise. The other is more complex but less deft.

No one is saying that he can break Superman molecules down. You missed the argument.

Originally posted by Mindset
Allan, you're not retarded, please don't pretend to be so.

He can manipulate things on the atomic level, he can exert force at well over 100 tons.

If he can do both of these things, then he can clamp a capillary. My god...I'm going to bed.

Who said that he couldn't clamp a capillary? If I mislead you into thinking that my bad.

My argument was simply that he wouldn't based on how he's used his TK in the past. This is a guy with many more appearances than MB, yet he's never used anything of the sought, it is simply not a move he's picked for his repertoire.

Originally posted by Allankles
Who said that he couldn't clamp a capillary? If I mislead you into thinking that my bad.

My argument was simply that he wouldn't based on how he's used his TK in the past. This is a guy with many more appearances than MB, yet he's never used anything of the sought, it is simply not a move he's picked for his repertoire.

OMG...

Originally posted by carver9
On 2 occassions Cable has did a brain attack... one 2 occassions, Cable has atomized limbs... its in character for him to use those type of attacks. What we do know is that Cable TK and TP is>>Manchester, so how would he fail?

I don't get it. If he can use his TK in ways that MB could only hope of ever doing, how can he accomplish something that Cable can't. How can someone with better control of their power fail at something a weaker person has done?

Again you're using the wrong term to frame my argument. I did not say he cannot do what MB did, he obviously can, but he won't.... (this is why I brought up the issue of application).

If atomizing stuff is how he goes, then he's more of a big hammer guy. His TK abilities are more complex and he can accomplish complex tasks (rebuilding a city) but combat strategy wise he's not a guy that thinks "clamp capillaries".

Originally posted by Allankles
Again you're using the wrong term to frame my argument. I did not say he cannot do what MB did, he obviously can, but he won't.... (this is why I brought up the issue of application).

If atomizing stuff is how he goes, then he's more of a big hammer guy. His TK abilities are more complex and he can accomplish complex tasks (rebuilding a city) but combat strategy wise he's not a guy that thinks "clamp capillaries".

Oh yes he does... I know these are humans but the way he did it took true skill, again, skill that MB doesn't have.

He atomized grapes turning the inside of them into poison... he completely sucks all the air from the area with just a thought using his TK.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1437/cable10716xc6.jpg

He constantly use these type of things during combat scenerios.

Originally posted by carver9
OMG...

What's shocking? I equated this to the Iceman vs Supes debate and it appears I was partially right. If MB hadn't given Supes a stroke we wouldn't even be debating this, let's agree to that.

Let's also agree that yes Cable can obviously replicate the feat. But let's agree that he's never done anything similar. Unless atomizing and demolecularizing people wholesale is the same as clamping a targets blood vessels.

I gave the analogy of a grenade and a acupuncture needle. One is more powerful and far more complex but the other is simple and its results, while less spectacular are also the product of a greater deftness and control.

Again CIS is in effect. That's why you don't, for example give Gladiator Supes feats or vice versa not even when feats show latent similarities.

Originally posted by carver9
Oh yes he does... I know these are humans but the way he did it took true skill, again, skill that MB doesn't have.

He atomized grapes turning the inside of them into poison... he completely sucks all the air from the area with just a thought using his TK.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1437/cable10716xc6.jpg

He constantly use these type of things during combat scenerios.

That's very cool and I mean it, but... again he's fought plenty of guys he could have capillary clamped, but didn't. I think Hulk was one example given. Point is, it's not something he's thought of in combat.

Just to clarify: I hope we've understood each other on this one?

And, I have to go to bed myself.

Originally posted by Mindset
Allan, you're not retarded, please don't pretend to be so.

He can manipulate things on the atomic level, he can exert force at well over 100 tons.

If he can do both of these things, then he can clamp a capillary. My god...I'm going to bed.

lol

Originally posted by Allankles

What takes less energy, tearing apart someone's brain to the molecular level or clamping capillaries? What uses more energy a grenade to the face that kills its target or an acupuncture needle to the nerves that does the same thing? One is less complex but more deft and precise. The other is more complex but less deft.

Your analogy here is not accurate at all. Tearing apart someones brain from the atomic level is not only more complex, but also considerably more deft and precise than clamping ones capilliaries.....and by considerably i mean by several orders of magnitude. Atoms are measured in picometres. Capillaries are measured in micrometres...which pretty ,much says it all regarding the precision needed to affect them. Hence manipulating something on the atomic level requires a level of precision and deftness unbelievably greater than doing so to capillaries. Your grenade analogy falls extremely flat because, Cable isnt just affecting the structure as a whole with his powers as is the case with the grenade, but is affecting each individual atom which susbequently causes the degradation of the whole structure.

Moreover, the emphasis on the particular strategy of capillary clamping is being overplayed All it really represents is the viability of attacks in the same vein and Cable shouldnt have to be shown doing the exact same thing when he has been shown to perform attacks in a similar vein that are even more complex..........more precise....and more deft as you would like to describe it.

Exodus has molecular level TK and some pretty impressive TK "strength" feats.

we all think he could take superman?

Originally posted by Allankles
Again that's great and shows that his powers with TK in other areas are more expansive than MB (with his handful of appearances) but it still not like anything MB did.

If that's the extent of his application with TK then he's not going to know how to get the most out of it against Supes - and this is important because I'll get back to it.

I'm not talking about what Cable can do I'm talking about what Cable has done. You're speculating that Cable can do the same thing MB did, and I agree that he can do it, but I disagree that he would.

I don't think it would even cross his mind that he can do this based on how he's used TK before. The DP example is relevant because, really, MB showed more control in this area and better creativity too. [/B]

of course, cable wouldnt desintegrate SM, but he can pull the stroke off and it's in character for him

Originally posted by inimalist
Exodus has molecular level TK and some pretty impressive TK "strength" feats.

we all think he could take superman?

Originally posted by inimalist
Exodus has molecular level TK and some pretty impressive TK "strength" feats.

we all think he could take superman?

No, on the contrary. He could "survive" Superman for some time, but he never used such a tactic on someone with Supermans durability or physiology. SS or Hulk would have been nice examples while DD isn't.

Originally posted by inimalist
Exodus has molecular level TK and some pretty impressive TK "strength" feats.

we all think he could take superman?

Yes, he can pull some wins... I wouldn't give him a kajority though.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
No, on the contrary. He could "survive" Superman for some time, but he never used such a tactic on someone with Supermans durability or physiology. SS or Hulk would have been nice examples while DD isn't.

he's never used the tactic, period...

and yes, that is my point, simply having atomic level TK doesn't mean you have a "kill button" to beat High Heralds

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, he can pull some wins... I wouldn't give him a kajority though.

I wouldn't give Exodus any wins against Superman...

you think his TK is enough to drop supes?

what about bloodties exodus?

Originally posted by 753
what about bloodties exodus?

I'm of the opinion current Exodus is a little more powerful, and there were no such matter manip TK feats in BT (with the exception of overpowering Sersi).

Just based on the raw power he had in that series, it might not be such a pwning by Superman, but overpowering Sersi, tagging Quicksilver, holding Jean in TK and modestly resisting Xavier don't, imho, make someone a threat to Superman, especially considering the speed differences. As strong as Exodus' shields might be, Superman will be hitting them with punches harder than anything he has blocked before, multiple times before he could react.

I guess I'd put it more like this: Any incarnation of Exodus probably has TK and TP enough to harm Superman, if Superman sort of stood there and took it. Exodus has TK feats that would legitimately suggest he could destroy Supes brain at a molecular level, or TP feats that suggest he might be able to damage Superman's psyche. In an actual fight, Exodus is going to be so focused on just not dying that these would be irrelevant. Exodus, for as fine control as he has of TK, has not used matter manip in a combat situation, for instance.