Originally posted by jinzin
you think spiderman could take a slash to the arm and just keep coming? (scratches head) hmmmm. assuming that sabretooth doesn't even hit any nerves rendering spidey's arm completely useless, he still as a low probability of using that arm in the fight again. Spiderman could barely fight when he had a sprained arm, a slashed up one isn't going to do him any good. Spiderman may have his spider sense and he will be able to dodge some of the punches but not all of them. I mean he took a pummeling from the vulture and the vulture's an old guy. If wolverine surprised spiderman with his speed and even made spidey second guess himself as being the faster of the two, and sabretooth is faster than wolverine, i really don't know how much of a factor spidey's speed plays into this. Hie strength either, someone said he'd cave sabretooth's face in which is just retarded. Wolverine can stand up to class 60-100 punches with ease. Sabretooth may be in a 3 to 5 ton range, possibly even more, but nevertheless even if sabretooth is 3 times as strong as wolverine and has a faster healing factor with an adamantium skeleton spiderman's punches ain't doin nothin to sabes.Spiderman's webbing isn't always unbreakable. A battle fatigued venom got covered head to toe in spidey webbing and broke completely free of it in a matter of a minute or so. I'm not implying that sabretooth can break free of the webbing himself, but the webbing isn't indestructible.
Once again, it all comes down to whether or not spidey can web sabes in such an uncomprimising way that sabes won't be able to break free. Considering that sabretooth won't just be standing there taking it I would say it could go either way, but in a straight up brawl spiderman will lose.
Aside from KOing rogue in 3 hits (I doubt spiderman could knock her out in 3 blows), crummpling an iron curling bar into an rion shotput, uppercuting logan 3 stories into the air, lifting and tossing cars, nearly killing killpower (who sports hercules level strength, superhuman speed and agility and a healing factor himself), and turning wendigo into a fur coat, other exapmles of sabretooth's strength include him pushing through a forcefeild that was strong enough to hold back a full grown raging elephant, and ripping shiva's head off with his bare hands, who's armor is supposedly second to adamantium only. Unless spiderman can properly restrain him with his webbs all this is gonna be is spiderman dodging and weaking for his life.
And how much did it take for Spidey to get a sprained arm? Because it took 30 supervillains to break it.
And Spidey's spider sense will allow him to dodge most of the punches, and I think it's fair to say that the wounds Spidey sustains (if he allows them) won't land him in the hospital. And Sabe being faster than Wolvie doesn't change the fact that he's still not up to par with Spidey speed. Tell me, since Wolvie made Spidey second guess about who was the faster of the two, when Spidey focused solely on his spider sense and superior reflexes, how many shots did Wolvie get in? Second guessing about an opponent is one thing....knowing about an opponent is quite another.
If Spidey wanted the fight be over with soon, he could just duck under the claws, grab his wrists, twirl him around a couple times and then release him.....I'm pretty sure his momentum would only send a couple miles or so. But, no matter which way you slice it, Sabe's going somewhere fast and far away if Spidey just wanted to toss him. Yep, it's one of those rare occasions where it doesn't matter whether or not Sabe's healing factor comes into play because once Sabe lands so far away from the place of battle, I'd call the fight over and done. After all, it worked when Spidey wanted the Thing out of his hair.
And I never claimed the webbing was indestructable, I could care less about the webbing. Spidey can use it to his advantage if he saw fit, but I wouldn't care.
And I think that Spidey's quite a bit stronger than any elephant as well, especially when you factor in the ranges he could reach with the right amount of adrenaline. Spidey's proven time and time again that it takes more than strength, claws, and a healing factor among other things to beat him, ALOT more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, who was getting in the final shots near the end of Spidey's and Wolvie's graveyard fight? Spidey. Wolvie could've smiled all night from having Spidey repeatedly pummel him the face, but when it came to doing anything else, well, he couldn't. And while Sabe is quite a bit stonger than Wolvie and faster, that wouldn't make him Spidey's equal in everything. I mean, Sabertooth lifted 40 tons, Spidey's lifted 35. Not that great a difference. Sabe's fast. Spidey's faster. Sabe has his fair share of combat techniques. Spidey MADE UP HIS OWN UNMATCHED combat techniques. Sabe can react to something happening with a good amount of speed. Spidey can react to something BEFORE IT HAPPENS with a great amount of speed. Sabe has his accelerated healing factor that I'll admit (without much choice) pretty much trumps Spidey's own durability, but to say that takes NOTHING away from how tough Spidey is, I can't see Spidey bawling his eyes out from a claw slash here and there, not even a slash through the arm would be enough to trigger any tears from the guy. If Pete has to go home with some bruises, some slashes here and there, even a couple of holes in his arm, shoulder, or leg, he will. And again, the possibility of Spidey having to sport even a couple of claw swipes is slim.
even tho im pulling for sabretooth on this one i wouldnt be so hasty to say that he's better than wolverine has others have stated on previous pages, besides when you think about it all 3 of them are not too far from each other. for example marvel.com lists thier strentgh at 4 for all 3. spidy's speed is 3 and creed and logan are 2, but wolvies fighting skills maxes out on the scale at 7 while both creed and spidy are at 5. so spiderman isnt as un-matchable in fighting as everyone thinks, or claims for that matter.
so it isnt as impossible as you all think that creed couldnt get his hands on him
Originally posted by talon00x
Spidey has 4 for his fighting skills. Creed has 5
In other words, for every move Creed could dish out Spidey could easily duplicate and exceed the likes of. I mean, a hypnotized Spidey mimicked moves from the likes of DareDevil, and while I wouldn't say that when comparing Creed and Matt that Matt would dwarf Creed in terms of fighting skills, it's far from that. But factoring in Spidey's superior agility to pretty much any and everyone in the MARVEL/DC mediums and how Spidey's acts on instinctive notions alone all the time there's not a thing that Creed could do that would leave Spidey in awe.
From a learning perspective, Creed can be classified as Spidey's superior. But only from learning, instinctively Spidey could do things that easily duplicates and exceeds whatever Creed picked up in his respective dojo.
Originally posted by manjaro
even tho im pulling for sabretooth on this one i wouldnt be so hasty to say that he's better than wolverine has others have stated on previous pages, besides when you think about it all 3 of them are not too far from each other. for example marvel.com lists thier strentgh at 4 for all 3. spidy's speed is 3 and creed and logan are 2, but wolvies fighting skills maxes out on the scale at 7 while both creed and spidy are at 5. so spiderman isnt as un-matchable in fighting as everyone thinks, or claims for that matter.so it isnt as impossible as you all think that creed couldnt get his hands on him
Wolvie and Creed both learned everything they know. They were taught how to do this or that, no one can match Spidey's style because it's so unorthidox and no one possesses the unique combination of superhuman reflexes heightened by pre cog, agility and elasticity that of Spidey's calibur. The fact that he'sisted as a 5 in terms of fighting skills is because of his experience alone is impressive.
And I never said that Creed hitting Spidey was impossible, but that it would be incredibly difficult and HIGHLY unlikely of happening often. Spidey getting close to Sabe is like getting close to Wolvie, it's stated in your post here that Spidey moves at level 3 (and above these days) speeds, Logan and Creed do not, that's simple fact.
Spidey being a level 5 in fighting skill means that he's never had any formal training. It doesn't change anything about it not going unmatched.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
Spidey's fighting style is ALL instinctive.
So What, it makes no difference if its instinctive or you learn something, its how you use it in a fight.
Wolvie and Creed both learned everything they know. They were taught how to do this or that,
You have said this already whats the point? Every single person on this planet instinctively knows how to fight, its the way we are. Why does it even matter that they learned how to fight instead of creating there own style? It doesn't matter!
no one can match Spidey's style because it's so unorthidox and no one possesses the unique combination of superhuman reflexes heightened by pre cog, agility and elasticity that of Spidey's calibur. The fact that he'sisted as a 5 in terms of fighting skills is because of his experience alone is impressive.
"No one" don't get carried away here, spideys way of fighting is indeed impressive, but unmatched come one. There is a lot of people than can easily match spidey. Get real. I believe quicksilver speed and quickness would be too much for spideys reflexes. Cyber's entire outer body was covered with adamantium, (the only person wolverine was afraid of) he would crush spidey. The list continues
And I never said that Creed hitting Spidey was impossible, but that it would be incredibly difficult and HIGHLY unlikely of happening often. Spidey getting close to Sabe is like getting close to Wolvie, it's stated in your post here that Spidey moves at level 3 (and above these days) speeds, Logan and Creed do not, that's simple fact.
Ok, let me take a stab at this, If creed does hit him once or twice there is a 50/50 chance of it being a lethal cut. Who cares if spidey can move really fast, and when he does hit creed really hard and breaks his hand, creed will laugh. Creed will take everything spidey has and keep on coming... simple fact.
Spidey being a level 5 in fighting skill means that he's never had any formal training. It doesn't change anything about it not going unmatched.
Spidey is Level 4, Level 4!!!!, LEVEL 4!!!!!!!!!!! Creed is at level 5. not that it even matters. Do you really think the writers look at that level crap? Probably not. If sabretooth shows up in spideys book the writer will probably be biased towards spidey vise versa in a weapon x book or in a sabretooth book.
I apologize if you think i was being hateful or mean in any way in my post, i had a long hard day.
okay, at first I questioned why everyone thinks that sabretooth beating the ever loving crap out of spidey was so far fetched, but now i know what it is. If you think that sabes is so outmatched here, it's just becasue you don't know anything about his character. Sure, if this thread had been made even a month and a half ago, I would have said that spidey would win for sure, but over that short amount of time, my fascination with the killer as grown and I've explored his comic book appearances outside of his fight with wolverine. I've even went as far as to spend some well saved up money on his first appearance. Now, I'm convinced that at his current status he'd kick the crippity crap out of spiderman.....and this is coming from a guy who's read over 550 spiderman comics.
You (strawnilla) try to imply that since wolvie and sabes learned their fighting skills, they are not as impressive as spidey's fighting style. Well there are a couple missconceptions there, Wolverine (as stated earlier) didn't learn to fight it was instinctive, only through his training, he was able to temper and hone his own god given abilities. And sabretooth doesn't have any real former training at all. He was foreigners student and a cia opperative as well as a weapon x project as we all know, however, wolverine describes sabretooths fighting skills as that of a bar room brawler. Not fancy, but no less effective. Even to wolverine (who is always topping out the fighting ability chart and is presumably up there with the cap) sabretooths fighting style is superb.
And sabretooth hitting spiderman being a slim chance, is some of the most wishful thinking I've ever heard; for every time I've seen spidey do something like dodge bullets, I've seen him get hit my a street level character 3 times if not 5. Sabretooths faster than wolvie who's slightly above peak human levels. Hobgoblin clobbered him to within an inch of his life, hobby wasn't inhumanly faster than before, just stronger. spiderman may have that nifty spider sense thing going on but it doesn't tell him exactly where the danger is coming from most of the time. and for when spidey sprained his arm, he fell a pathetic 2 stories.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
Spidey's fighting style is ALL instinctive.And I never said that Creed hitting Spidey was impossible, but that it would be incredibly difficult and HIGHLY unlikely of happening often. Spidey getting close to Sabe is like getting close to Wolvie, it's stated in your post here that Spidey moves at level 3 (and above these days) speeds, Logan and Creed do not, that's simple fact.
.
no offense dude but you say that like Creed is gonna be out there playing freeze tag with spidey. the frequency of his blows is not what im sleeping on, the fact that he's going for the kill with each swing, when he eventually lands one its gonna leave a gaping wound in spidey's frame dude. thats whats important. but then again i believe that his blows would be very often indeed, becuase ive seen spiderman trade blows with the shocker and his kinetic punches(when he charges up his electricty around his fists) like two heavy weight boxers and there wasnt any superior skills and reflexes being put to use
Originally posted by who?-kid
Can we please please PLEASE forget the vague level points, the stupid websites and the comic cards ?They are not accurate and very clumsy to work with.
Base your opinion on what you saw in the comics. All the rest is bollocks and irrelevant.
well you know what dude, since Marvel.com is the official site for marvel, and the comic cards are published by marvel im willing to take their words and assesment over some fan website. even tho a lot of those just copy straight outta the OHOMU, but the problem is they dont update as more volumes are published.
and also ive have seen a lot in comics, in fact at least 88% of what i stand behind come directly from what ive seen in comics. especially when it comes to how i think a particular charcter would manage against another but i do agree with you that they are a bit clumsy cuz a lot of the new comers just consult those web sites and take everything as gospel.
Originally posted by manjaro
no offense dude but you say that like Creed is gonna be out there playing freeze tag with spidey. the frequency of his blows is not what im sleeping on, the fact that he's going for the kill with each swing, when he eventually lands one its gonna leave a gaping wound in spidey's frame dude. thats whats important. but then again i believe that his blows would be very often indeed, becuase ive seen spiderman trade blows with the shocker and his kinetic punches(when he charges up his electricty around his fists) like two heavy weight boxers and there wasnt any superior skills and reflexes being put to use
And so what if Creed is going for the kill with every swing? Spidey's durability is more than enough to concur with a few major injuries and even a critical wound where he would either: go beserk and blitz Sabe with a measure of speed never before experienced by the likes of Creed in his battles with Wolvie, or: come to the realization that a blitz attack would near inneffective thanks to Creed's healing from it only seconds later and use the strength he had left to toss him a couple miles.
And don't tell me you actually believe that Spidey would want to prolong a battle with the likes of Shocker by bouncing around him once he knew the need for such actions were null and void. Spidey's danced around the likes of Hulk, Thing, the FF AND Thing, Thor with Mendelson's mind, and a slew of other guys WAAAAYYYY above the likes of Shocker in terms of brute strength and general power. I mean, c'mon. You're gonna take Spidey getting into a few fights with your common street thug equipped with some energy-emitting gloves into account when it's well-known that there's virtually no need for Spidey to sweat the guy in the first place? And besides that was, after all, a fist fight. Once Shocker felt the need to fire off a couple of blasts into the air at Spidey, the webhead would've more than known to move. It's instinctive.
Please don't try and tell me that Spidey's VASTLY superior agility and reflexes heightened by pre cog won't come into effect once Creed got close to him. It's not suicide. I mean, granted, though I wouldn't say that Spidey close to Creed is suicide in the least, you could duplicate saying so when bringing up an occurance such as Creed and running and swinging at Spidey with those claws of his, sort of like the charge someone like Rhino would take into play. Once Creed got close enough, Spidey could just duck under him and the claws, grab him by the legs, and toss him so far overhead he'd fly for miles. Easy victory. Spidey could just duck and dodge around Creed's attacks and, on occasion, take one or two deep cuts (they wouldn't be critical, seeing that Spidey can pull himself out of range of them being so), and mulekick him far enough outwards for a ring out victory, it's nowhere near and occurance out of the realm of possibility for a guy like Spidey.
Originally posted by jinzin
You (strawnilla) try to imply that since wolvie and sabes learned their fighting skills, they are not as impressive as spidey's fighting style. Well there are a couple missconceptions there, Wolverine (as stated earlier) didn't learn to fight it was instinctive, only through his training, he was able to temper and hone his own god given abilities. And sabretooth doesn't have any real former training at all. He was foreigners student and a cia opperative as well as a weapon x project as we all know, however, wolverine describes sabretooths fighting skills as that of a bar room brawler. Not fancy, but no less effective. Even to wolverine (who is always topping out the fighting ability chart and is presumably up there with the cap) sabretooths fighting style is superb.
And sabretooth hitting spiderman being a slim chance, is some of the most wishful thinking I've ever heard; for every time I've seen spidey do something like dodge bullets, I've seen him get hit my a street level character 3 times if not 5. Sabretooths faster than wolvie who's slightly above peak human levels. Hobgoblin clobbered him to within an inch of his life, hobby wasn't inhumanly faster than before, just stronger. spiderman may have that nifty spider sense thing going on but it doesn't tell him exactly where the danger is coming from most of the time. and for when spidey sprained his arm, he fell a pathetic 2 stories.
The hype Wolvie gets when it comes to his fighting style came from what he LEARNED through TRAINING. If he simply tried to fight with his killer instinct form childhood he would've been taken out a LOOONNNGG time ago, you said it yourself that Wolvie's instinctive abilities were honed in through training. Spidey wasn't trained to do ANY of the things he has done. And saying that for every bullet Spidey has dodged, you've seen him get hit by a street level character s times if not 5 proves the absurdity in any fight between Spidey and DareDevil, Spidey and Cap, and a slew of other martial artist.
Fact of the matter is, neither of those guys (Cap, DD, and other peak humans) are as fast as bullets. I've seen Spidey dance around bullets being fired at him by a SWAT team at near point blank range, you can't actually tell you believe that a peak human can be considered faster than bullets aimed a target at near point blank range, can you? Or lasers, for that matter? (Yes, Spidey has dodged those to.) And so what if Wolvie is impressed with Sabe's fighting style? For one thing, Wolvie has never been described as being in his "samurai" mode all the time in the first place, and is impressed with anyone he can't kill. Second off, Spidey's fighting style is hundreds of times more complex and effective than that of a bar room brawler, as Sabe is described as fighting as.
And I'm pretty sure that Spidey pummeling the Green Goblin to death on multiple occasions more than makes up for *one* battle with the Hobgoblin. I mean, the outcome in itself sounds exagerrated, seeing that Spidey has had far better showings with him in the time afterwards.
And I suppose you can always call falling two stories pathetic when you haven't experienced it yourself. Spidey has braced himself for 5 story falls and gotten off fine, and it took THIRTY supervillains to break his arm, no to mention that the guy does have a vertical leap of about two stories in the first place. It seems to me that someone responsible for writing out that event used it as some kind of plot device or to further develop a storyline, and not because they thought he couldn't take the fall.
Originally posted by StrawNilla
No offense taken.And so what if Creed is going for the kill with every swing? Spidey's durability is more than enough to concur with a few major injuries and even a critical wound where he would either: go beserk and blitz Sabe with a measure of speed never before experienced by the likes of Creed in his battles with Wolvie, or: come to the realization that a blitz attack would near inneffective thanks to Creed's healing from it only seconds later and use the strength he had left to toss him a couple miles.
And don't tell me you actually believe that Spidey would want to prolong a battle with the likes of Shocker by bouncing around him once he knew the need for such actions were null and void. Spidey's danced around the likes of Hulk, Thing, the FF AND Thing, Thor with Mendelson's mind, and a slew of other guys WAAAAYYYY above the likes of Shocker in terms of brute strength and general power. I mean, c'mon. You're gonna take Spidey getting into a few fights with your common street thug equipped with some energy-emitting gloves into account when it's well-known that there's virtually no need for Spidey to sweat the guy in the first place? And besides that was, after all, a fist fight. Once Shocker felt the need to fire off a couple of blasts into the air at Spidey, the webhead would've more than known to move. It's instinctive.
Please don't try and tell me that Spidey's VASTLY superior agility and reflexes heightened by pre cog won't come into effect once Creed got close to him. It's not suicide. I mean, granted, though I wouldn't say that Spidey close to Creed is suicide in the least, you could duplicate saying so when bringing up an occurance such as Creed and running and swinging at Spidey with those claws of his, sort of like the charge someone like Rhino would take into play. Once Creed got close enough, Spidey could just duck under him and the claws, grab him by the legs, and toss him so far overhead he'd fly for miles. Easy victory. Spidey could just duck and dodge around Creed's attacks and, on occasion, take one or two deep cuts (they wouldn't be critical, seeing that Spidey can pull himself out of range of them being so), and mulekick him far enough outwards for a ring out victory, it's nowhere near and occurance out of the realm of possibility for a guy like Spidey.
Dude, come on, throwing creed for miles. Please I know spidey is strong but this isn't superman. Even if he could, MILES? They are in the city buddy he would hit something.
That doesn't sound like spiderman, duck under his attack and throw him miles, come on now. Spiderman isn't some censored who just throws people away.
Stronger, Faster, has more AGILITY Sabretooth will fight him just like everyone else...............WITHOUT MERCY devil2
Originally posted by talon00x
Dude, come on, throwing creed for miles. Please I know spidey is strong but this isn't superman. Even if he could, MILES? They are in the city buddy he would hit something.That doesn't sound like spiderman, duck under his attack and throw him miles, come on now. Spiderman isn't some censored who just throws people away.
Stronger, Faster, has more AGILITY Sabretooth will fight him just like everyone else...............WITHOUT MERCY devil2
and he will lose 💃
Originally posted by StrawNilla
.And don't tell me you actually believe that Spidey would want to prolong a battle with the likes of Shocker by bouncing around him once he knew the need for such actions were null and void. Spidey's danced around the likes of Hulk, Thing, the FF AND Thing, Thor with Mendelson's mind, and a slew of other guys WAAAAYYYY above the likes of Shocker in terms of brute strength and general power
so since Creed is way above the likes of Shocker isnt that like you admitting that spidey would have no choice but to try to dance around Creed the same way he did with Hulk,Thing,and Rhino for he knows what would happen if he got those claws sunken into his flesh? spidey knows what would happen to him if the hulk or thing lands a pucnh but i really dont see him apporaching creed and saying gee let me test out my durabilty on those adamantium claws.
he would have to show sabretooth that same reverence as he would the others for he would know that a couple of good swipes from Creed and thats all she wrote. and as ive said before this is not gonna be a match of who is stronger than who its gonna be who can inflict the most damage and thats where creed stands above him
.
[/i]. I mean, c'mon. You're gonna take Spidey getting into a few fights with your common street thug equipped with some energy-emitting gloves into account when it's well-known that there's virtually no need for Spidey to sweat the guy in the first place? And besides that was, after all, a fist fight.[/QUOTE]
indeed it was a fist fight and shocker was more than holding his own thats the point i was trying to make. i am sorry if i wasnt being clear. he met up with a guy in a power suit and he got his face bruised up. granted shocker got his ass beat soundly but the fact still remains that a street level opponent was able to go toe to toe with spidey and put his hands on him. you see what im saying? put his hands on him, he barely got a chance to skip around and the like cuz shocker was just laying into him, and of course he was able to beat him becuase he's significnatly stronger than shocker was.
so if Creed goes to to toe with him its gonna be
Punch punch punch,
slash slash slash,
bleed bleed bleed ,
heal heal heal,
punch pucnh,
slash slash slash,
bleed bleed bleed,
heal, heal,
punch,
slash slash slash,
bleed bleed bleed
heal
...........................................................
slash slash slash......................................
bleed bleed bleed bleed..........................
Originally posted by manjaro
so since Creed is way above the likes of Shocker isnt that like you admitting that spidey would have no choice but to try to dance around Creed the same way he did with Hulk,Thing,and Rhino for he knows what would happen if he got those claws sunken into his flesh? spidey knows what would happen to him if the hulk or thing lands a pucnh but i really dont see him apporaching creed and saying gee let me test out my durabilty on those adamantium claws.he would have to show sabretooth that same reverence as he would the others for he would know that a couple of good swipes from Creed and thats all she wrote. and as ive said before this is not gonna be a match of who is stronger than who its gonna be who can inflict the most damage and thats where creed stands above him
.
[/i][B]. I mean, c'mon. You're gonna take Spidey getting into a few fights with your common street thug equipped with some energy-emitting gloves into account when it's well-known that there's virtually no need for Spidey to sweat the guy in the first place? And besides that was, after all, a fist fight.
indeed it was a fist fight and shocker was more than holding his own thats the point i was trying to make. i am sorry if i wasnt being clear. he met up with a guy in a power suit and he got his face bruised up. granted shocker got his ass beat soundly but the fact still remains that a street level opponent was able to go toe to toe with spidey and put his hands on him. you see what im saying? put his hands on him, he barely got a chance to skip around and the like cuz shocker was just laying into him, and of course he was able to beat him becuase he's significnatly stronger than shocker was. [/B][/QUOTE]
why is everybody bashing shocker so much? Nick fury says that shocker is actually one of the most deadly super-villians in the world. ANd i dont know about you, but i think fury's word is well above most people's.