Spider-man vs. Sabertooth

Originally posted by talon00x
So What, it makes no difference if its instinctive or you learn something, its how you use it in a fight.

You have said this already whats the point? Every single person on this planet instinctively knows how to fight, its the way we are. Why does it even matter that they learned how to fight instead of creating there own style? It doesn't matter!

"No one" don't get carried away here, spideys way of fighting is indeed impressive, but unmatched come one. There is a lot of people than can easily match spidey. Get real. I believe quicksilver speed and quickness would be too much for spideys reflexes. Cyber's entire outer body was covered with adamantium, (the only person wolverine was afraid of) he would crush spidey. The list continues

Ok, let me take a stab at this, If creed does hit him once or twice there is a 50/50 chance of it being a lethal cut. Who cares if spidey can move really fast, and when he does hit creed really hard and breaks his hand, creed will laugh. Creed will take everything spidey has and keep on coming... simple fact.

Spidey is Level 4, Level 4!!!!, LEVEL 4!!!!!!!!!!! Creed is at level 5. not that it even matters. Do you really think the writers look at that level crap? Probably not. If sabretooth shows up in spideys book the writer will probably be biased towards spidey vise versa in a weapon x book or in a sabretooth book.

I apologize if you think i was being hateful or mean in any way in my post, i had a long hard day.

Bottom line:

Sabe is fast
Spidey is faster

Sabe is agile
I find no need to explain to anyone the VAST advantage Spidey has in the agility department

Sabe can react to things rather fast as they happen
Spidey can react to things rather fast BEFORE they happen

Sabe can leap rather high (higher than most atheletes maybe)
Spidey can possibly leap up to two stories (maybe more)

Sabe possesses average elasticity
Spidey possesses elasticity twice that of the average human

Sabe's not dumb
Spidey is gifted

And I haven't met anyone that utilizes a combination of superhuman strength, speed, agility, elasticity, and reflexes heightened by pre cog as Spidey has on instinct alone, or through a learned martial art for that matter.

As for your point about Spidey's fighting style not being unmatched, I'll say again that there is no one in the MARVEL or DC brand that utilizes a combination of superhuman strength, speed, agility, elasticity, and reflexes heightened by pre cog such as Spidey has done on instinct, nor can they come close through formal martial arts training. And just because Quicksilver is a speedster doesn't mean that if he got into a hand-to-hand battle with the webbed one that he is guaranteed a win, I think it's to the general public's understanding that he would lose. What you were talking about there was a Quicksilver on the run, not a Quicksilver wanting to stay and fight. And Sabe wouldn't crush Spidey, if Doc Ock with adamantium tentacles could beat the crap out of Spidey and still come up quite short from crushing him, I can't see Sabe pulling it off.

And you say that there is a 50/50 chance of the shot being lethal. What about the other 50? And what's to say you even know if those statistics are legit or not? And it means alot if Spidey is really fast, that he is, or faster than Sabe, that he is. Reflex wise, seeing that Spidey knows of an attack coming from Sabe before it is even executed, Sabe shouldn't have that much a chance of hitting Spidey much less having the hit be lethal. And let's face it, speed is not the only thing Spidey has going for him here. He has endurance that'll allow him to fight Sabe without fatigue for hours on end, I could see him doing so for a day or more, he possesses superior agility and elasticity that easily allows him to maneuver through Sabe's attacks, the obvious aerial advantage that will allow him to attack at multiple angles, strength that could, for the most part, leave Sabe stunned from the attacks if even just for a few seconds (especially with his recent strength upgrade and the boost he could get from the right amount of adrenaline through rage or something more), and webbing that Spidey could use when latching onto Sabe instantaneously to yank him off to the sides. Spidey's not stupid. If he sees that Sabe is slashing through his webbing faster than Spidey could yank him, he'll simply pull him faster and harder, I'm pretty sure the speed of Spidey's own reaction will be more than enough to occur with that of Sabe's killer instinctiveness, especially from a distance.

Fact is, no matter what a writer's biased opinion is about Spidey/Sabe fight in any book, it does in no way change the fact that Spidey is faster than Sabe, if there's a strength advantage in Sabe's favor it's not significant nor is it vastly superior to Spidey's (far from it), he's WAAAAYYY more agile than Sabe, his reflexes are sharper, he's tough enough to roll with some slashes and deep cuts, he's more elastic (resulting in his effectiveness going in going aerial) and to top it all off he's the smartest of the two.

plus his witty... gotta inlude witty 😉

Originally posted by Kontraz
plus his witty... gotta inlude witty 😉

Originally posted by StrawNilla
Spidey's instinctive abilities are WAAAYYY more advanced than that of what one had to learn. That adds to my point: He didn't have to learn anything in order to have made his style so effective, and according to jinzin, neither did Creed. Difference here: Creed's usual opponent in the majority of his comic book fights is Wolvie, a guy who next to never uses his true fighting abilties in a fight (not to say that they are as complex of Spidey's, just sayin'😉, so he doesn't really have to get complex, again, not that his abilties are as complex of Spidey, but when fighting a guy like Wolvie you really don't have to be. The only things that are really required is that you are: relatively fast, fairly strong, and tough. Sabe meets these requirements in fair abundance. So a battle between the two will always be prolonged. But while Spidey obviously possesses the atributes needed as well to defeat Wolvie as well as Sabe (mainly because of the VAST speed, agility, reaction time advantages he holds over the two, his strength also plays a role), he is underestimated.

Bottom line:

Sabe is fast
Spidey is faster

Sabe is agile
I find no need to explain to anyone the VAST advantage Spidey has in the agility department

Sabe can react to things rather fast as they happen
Spidey can react to things rather fast BEFORE they happen

Sabe can leap rather high (higher than most atheletes maybe)
Spidey can possibly leap up to two stories (maybe more)

Sabe possesses average elasticity
Spidey possesses elasticity twice that of the average human

Sabe's not dumb
Spidey is gifted

And I haven't met anyone that utilizes a combination of superhuman strength, speed, agility, elasticity, and reflexes heightened by pre cog as Spidey has on instinct alone, or through a learned martial art for that matter.

As for your point about Spidey's fighting style not being unmatched, I'll say again that there is no one in the MARVEL or DC brand that utilizes a combination of superhuman strength, speed, agility, elasticity, and reflexes heightened by pre cog such as Spidey has done on instinct, nor can they come close through formal martial arts training. And just because Quicksilver is a speedster doesn't mean that if he got into a hand-to-hand battle with the webbed one that he is guaranteed a win, I think it's to the general public's understanding that he would lose. What you were talking about there was a Quicksilver on the run, not a Quicksilver wanting to stay and fight. And Sabe wouldn't crush Spidey, if Doc Ock with adamantium tentacles could beat the crap out of Spidey and still come up quite short from crushing him, I can't see Sabe pulling it off.

And you say that there is a 50/50 chance of the shot being lethal. What about the other 50? And what's to say you even know if those statistics are legit or not? And it means alot if Spidey is really fast, that he is, or faster than Sabe, that he is. Reflex wise, seeing that Spidey knows of an attack coming from Sabe before it is even executed, Sabe shouldn't have that much a chance of hitting Spidey much less having the hit be lethal. And let's face it, speed is not the only thing Spidey has going for him here. He has endurance that'll allow him to fight Sabe without fatigue for hours on end, I could see him doing so for a day or more, he possesses superior agility and elasticity that easily allows him to maneuver through Sabe's attacks, the obvious aerial advantage that will allow him to attack at multiple angles, strength that could, for the most part, leave Sabe stunned from the attacks if even just for a few seconds (especially with his recent strength upgrade and the boost he could get from the right amount of adrenaline through rage or something more), and webbing that Spidey could use when latching onto Sabe instantaneously to yank him off to the sides. Spidey's not stupid. If he sees that Sabe is slashing through his webbing faster than Spidey could yank him, he'll simply pull him faster and harder, I'm pretty sure the speed of Spidey's own reaction will be more than enough to occur with that of Sabe's killer instinctiveness, especially from a distance.

Fact is, no matter what a writer's biased opinion is about Spidey/Sabe fight in any book, it does in no way change the fact that Spidey is faster than Sabe, if there's a strength advantage in Sabe's favor it's not significant nor is it vastly superior to Spidey's (far from it), he's WAAAAYYY more agile than Sabe, his reflexes are sharper, he's tough enough to roll with some slashes and deep cuts, he's more elastic (resulting in his effectiveness going in going aerial) and to top it all off he's the smartest of the two.

I didnt read all of that cause what i did read you have said already. I didnt say sabe would crush spidey, i said CYBER WOULD CRUSH SPIDEY, big difference.

You keep saying that spideys spidersence tells him before the act happends which is true but you make it sound like. Ok scenario a sniper is trying to snipe spidey he wont start to tingle while he is loading the gun more like when the scope is on spideys head. But that does him little good in a fight when lets say sabretooth is coming at him both hands raised. Spidey doesnt know which hand is coming down, he just knows one is coming down.

Originally posted by talon00x
I didnt read all of that cause what i did read you have said already. I didnt say sabe would crush spidey, i said CYBER WOULD CRUSH SPIDEY, big difference.

You keep saying that spideys spidersence tells him before the act happends which is true but you make it sound like. Ok scenario a sniper is trying to snipe spidey he wont start to tingle while he is loading the gun more like when the scope is on spideys head. But that does him little good in a fight when lets say sabretooth is coming at him both hands raised. Spidey doesnt know which hand is coming down, he just knows one is coming down.

that all depends on the writer, of course. In some cases, spidey would only know he was in danger, not from who, what, when, etc, while others would let him know the exact angle and speed of the claws, the length of the claws, the exact moment to the millisecond they will be striking, etc (yes, these are hyperboles, but they do get the message across)

Has Spectacular Spiderman #116 been brought up, yet? Spiderman humiliates Sabretooth in that comic and then feels badly about it. Spiderman never even perceived him as a threat.

Thing is if your talking SS #116 your talking the original Sabretooth which as I have mentioned in the Luke Cage vs Sabretooth thread is a tough but limited foe.

Old Creed has been through some serious changes and power upgrades since then so its a completely different fight now.

Personally I can't pick a winner here but it's gonna get ugly whatever the result!

Originally posted by talon00x
I didnt read all of that cause what i did read you have said already. I didnt say sabe would crush spidey, i said CYBER WOULD CRUSH SPIDEY, big difference.

You keep saying that spideys spidersence tells him before the act happends which is true but you make it sound like. Ok scenario a sniper is trying to snipe spidey he wont start to tingle while he is loading the gun more like when the scope is on spideys head. But that does him little good in a fight when lets say sabretooth is coming at him both hands raised. Spidey doesnt know which hand is coming down, he just knows one is coming down.

I'm only going to say this once more:

Sabe is fast
Spidey is faster

Sabe isn't dumb
Spidey is gifted

Sabe has a fair vertical leap
Spidey leaps over a couple stories

Sabe is fairly agile
I need not explain the VAST advantage Spidey has in the agility department

Sabe can react to things fairly fast when they happen
Spidey can react to things incredibly fast BEFORE they happen

Sabe is fairly elastic
Spidey is twice as elastic as the average human

There are just too many areas in which Spidey is Sabe's superior to give Sabe an even remotely good chance of landing a fatal blow. The chances of Sabe landing a few good blows aren't in Sabe's favor.

And I doubt that Sabe's strength advantage is as vast as he would like either. At Spidey's max there's maybe a 5 ton difference between the two, wait, that was before his upgrade. I'd wager now that Spidey is stronger than he is now as well, especially with the assistance of adrenaline triggered by rage or desperation. With the provided advantages in Spidey's favor and a possible strength advantage, I give the webbed one the majority.

arrrrghhhh. well now you've said it twice. I got it the first time through, no need to reiderate.

NOw while I comment you for not coming up with spiderman powers (ie organ snatching) like in the trio thread, it is dissapointing that you don't seem to know all that much about the character that your trying to defend. Or about his rogues gallery anyway. Spidey can react to things before they happen via spidersense, but it's all a matter of him being lucky enough to have reacted in the right way. Spiderman can dodge bullets tis true, but so what? who can't dodge bullets in comic books nowdays. Batman has dodged bullets, wolverine has dodged bullets, ryu can dodge bullets, nightwing can dodge heat vision. Am I to beleive that these charcters are all superhuman. The only one on that list that even comes close is wolverine. Spiderman's spider sense is nifty sometimes but it has never stopped him from being hit by street level-speed opponents. For example: prowler, king pin, wolverine, daredevil, captain america, doc doom, shocker, hobgoblin, green goblin, tombstone and vulture (by the way vulture pummpled him in close quarters combat). These are just names off a short list off the top of my head. None of these guys have had a problem hitting spidey, why would sabretooth (who's faster than half of em)?

It's sad that you are convinced that shocker is such a low level oppenent for spidey, he's had spidey at his mercy on a few occasions, he's certainly no pushover.

point is, spidey's durability isn't going to help him sustain vital shots from sabretooth, if he gets his leg gashed open or his arm cut open or gutted, or his achiles tenden sliced, or his neck gouged, or his face cut, or his ribs broken, or his hand chopped up...etc etc...Sabretooth has too many options to go with in h2h with spidey. And if he chooses to use his brute strength instead of just slashing, god help spiderman. Even wolverine was able to KO a guy that was physically stronger than spiderman (rough house) with just bludgining him with his fists. Sabretooth's able to chuck cars, him hitting spidey with adamantium laced fists is going to do some major damage. Spidey's tough but your making it sound like all 30 supervillains were making a group effort to break spidey's arm, when his arm was broken coincedently. Spiderman got his arm sprained after falling 2 stories downward and that was in a comic written by stan lee. Just from that, spiderman took 30 minutes to get out of his spiderman suit and into street clothes due to the fact that he was so hindered. Now are you going to tell me that stan lee wouldn't know anything about the comic book characters he made? HA!!

If,,,,no WHEN sabes gets his one good slice in, it's curtains for spidey.

To simplify. (This next point applies here as well as the spiderman vs. wolverine, dd, cap a thread) Have you ever heard of the enforcers? they're three gangster thugs. Humans with no superpowers but gifted in some ability. the first was OX a big guy who was just strong, he could KO two or three guys with one hit at the same time, and he could lift the tailend of a car but all he had was below peak human strength. then, there was this lasso guy who could just lasso crap really well. And then my personal fav. fancy dan, a really short judo expert. Between the 3 of these guys, ox managed to hit him and stagger him, the lasso guy lassoed him twice, and fancy dan hit him a couple of times, even making spidey gasp for air once, as well as dodging a few of spiderman's punches.
If all three of these above average street thugs could tag spidey what gives you the staunch belief that sabretooth, or the trio for that matter can't? esp. when sabes (and the trio) is stronger, faster, and even more highly trained than these guys.

now on to my final point. I've seen you bring up spidey getting his arm broken by 30 supervillains a number of times between this and the trio thread, but are you aware that 20 or so common street gansters almost got the best of spidey before he beat feet out of that situation? In a stan lee written comic at that. I think he's more aware of his own character than you. Spidey's been hit by slower, less trained, less experiences fighters than sabes. Sabretooth has everything it takes and more to take down spidey. once again it all comes down to the webbing, but webbing can be dodged and sabes isn't going to let spiderman have some leisure time to refill. Sabretooth 6 or 7 out of 10.

Originally posted by jinzin
arrrrghhhh. well now you've said it twice. I got it the first time through, no need to reiderate.

NOw while I comment you for not coming up with spiderman powers (ie organ snatching) like in the trio thread, it is dissapointing that you don't seem to know all that much about the character that your trying to defend. Or about his rogues gallery anyway. Spidey can react to things before they happen via spidersense, but it's all a matter of him being lucky enough to have reacted in the right way. Spiderman can dodge bullets tis true, but so what? who can't dodge bullets in comic books nowdays. Batman has dodged bullets, wolverine has dodged bullets, ryu can dodge bullets, nightwing can dodge heat vision. Am I to beleive that these charcters are all superhuman. The only one on that list that even comes close is wolverine. Spiderman's spider sense is nifty sometimes but it has never stopped him from being hit by street level-speed opponents. For example: prowler, king pin, wolverine, daredevil, captain america, doc doom, shocker, hobgoblin, green goblin, tombstone and vulture (by the way vulture pummpled him in close quarters combat). These are just names off a short list off the top of my head. None of these guys have had a problem hitting spidey, why would sabretooth (who's faster than half of em)?

It's sad that you are convinced that shocker is such a low level oppenent for spidey, he's had spidey at his mercy on a few occasions, he's certainly no pushover.

point is, spidey's durability isn't going to help him sustain vital shots from sabretooth, if he gets his leg gashed open or his arm cut open or gutted, or his achiles tenden sliced, or his neck gouged, or his face cut, or his ribs broken, or his hand chopped up...etc etc...Sabretooth has too many options to go with in h2h with spidey. And if he chooses to use his brute strength instead of just slashing, god help spiderman. Even wolverine was able to KO a guy that was physically stronger than spiderman (rough house) with just bludgining him with his fists. Sabretooth's able to chuck cars, him hitting spidey with adamantium laced fists is going to do some major damage. Spidey's tough but your making it sound like all 30 supervillains were making a group effort to break spidey's arm, when his arm was broken coincedently. Spiderman got his arm sprained after falling 2 stories downward and that was in a comic written by stan lee. Just from that, spiderman took 30 minutes to get out of his spiderman suit and into street clothes due to the fact that he was so hindered. Now are you going to tell me that stan lee wouldn't know anything about the comic book characters he made? HA!!

If,,,,no WHEN sabes gets his one good slice in, it's curtains for spidey.

To simplify. (This next point applies here as well as the spiderman vs. wolverine, dd, cap a thread) Have you ever heard of the enforcers? they're three gangster thugs. Humans with no superpowers but gifted in some ability. the first was OX a big guy who was just strong, he could KO two or three guys with one hit at the same time, and he could lift the tailend of a car but all he had was below peak human strength. then, there was this lasso guy who could just lasso crap really well. And then my personal fav. fancy dan, a really short judo expert. Between the 3 of these guys, ox managed to hit him and stagger him, the lasso guy lassoed him twice, and fancy dan hit him a couple of times, even making spidey gasp for air once, as well as dodging a few of spiderman's punches.
If all three of these above average street thugs could tag spidey what gives you the staunch belief that sabretooth, or the trio for that matter can't? esp. when sabes (and the trio) is stronger, faster, and even more highly trained than these guys.

now on to my final point. I've seen you bring up spidey getting his arm broken by 30 supervillains a number of times between this and the trio thread, but are you aware that 20 or so common street gansters almost got the best of spidey before he beat feet out of that situation? In a stan lee written comic at that. I think he's more aware of his own character than you. Spidey's been hit by slower, less trained, less experiences fighters than sabes. Sabretooth has everything it takes and more to take down spidey. once again it all comes down to the webbing, but webbing can be dodged and sabes isn't going to let spiderman have some leisure time to refill. Sabretooth 6 or 7 out of 10.

That was the most intelligent post in this entire thread.

Only cause it's in your favor.

There are too many ways for Spiderman to hurts Sabertooth, not enough ways for Sabie to hurt him. Sabertooth will probably never land an attack. Spidey outclasses him in every category cept fighting abilty, which could swing the battle, but not by much.

Originally posted by jinzin
arrrrghhhh. well now you've said it twice. I got it the first time through, no need to reiderate.

NOw while I comment you for not coming up with spiderman powers (ie organ snatching) like in the trio thread, it is dissapointing that you don't seem to know all that much about the character that your trying to defend. Or about his rogues gallery anyway. Spidey can react to things before they happen via spidersense, but it's all a matter of him being lucky enough to have reacted in the right way. Spiderman can dodge bullets tis true, but so what? who can't dodge bullets in comic books nowdays. Batman has dodged bullets, wolverine has dodged bullets, ryu can dodge bullets, nightwing can dodge heat vision. Am I to beleive that these charcters are all superhuman. The only one on that list that even comes close is wolverine. Spiderman's spider sense is nifty sometimes but it has never stopped him from being hit by street level-speed opponents. For example: prowler, king pin, wolverine, daredevil, captain america, doc doom, shocker, hobgoblin, green goblin, tombstone and vulture (by the way vulture pummpled him in close quarters combat). These are just names off a short list off the top of my head. None of these guys have had a problem hitting spidey, why would sabretooth (who's faster than half of em)?

It's sad that you are convinced that shocker is such a low level oppenent for spidey, he's had spidey at his mercy on a few occasions, he's certainly no pushover.

point is, spidey's durability isn't going to help him sustain vital shots from sabretooth, if he gets his leg gashed open or his arm cut open or gutted, or his achiles tenden sliced, or his neck gouged, or his face cut, or his ribs broken, or his hand chopped up...etc etc...Sabretooth has too many options to go with in h2h with spidey. And if he chooses to use his brute strength instead of just slashing, god help spiderman. Even wolverine was able to KO a guy that was physically stronger than spiderman (rough house) with just bludgining him with his fists. Sabretooth's able to chuck cars, him hitting spidey with adamantium laced fists is going to do some major damage. Spidey's tough but your making it sound like all 30 supervillains were making a group effort to break spidey's arm, when his arm was broken coincedently. Spiderman got his arm sprained after falling 2 stories downward and that was in a comic written by stan lee. Just from that, spiderman took 30 minutes to get out of his spiderman suit and into street clothes due to the fact that he was so hindered. Now are you going to tell me that stan lee wouldn't know anything about the comic book characters he made? HA!!

If,,,,no WHEN sabes gets his one good slice in, it's curtains for spidey.

To simplify. (This next point applies here as well as the spiderman vs. wolverine, dd, cap a thread) Have you ever heard of the enforcers? they're three gangster thugs. Humans with no superpowers but gifted in some ability. the first was OX a big guy who was just strong, he could KO two or three guys with one hit at the same time, and he could lift the tailend of a car but all he had was below peak human strength. then, there was this lasso guy who could just lasso crap really well. And then my personal fav. fancy dan, a really short judo expert. Between the 3 of these guys, ox managed to hit him and stagger him, the lasso guy lassoed him twice, and fancy dan hit him a couple of times, even making spidey gasp for air once, as well as dodging a few of spiderman's punches.
If all three of these above average street thugs could tag spidey what gives you the staunch belief that sabretooth, or the trio for that matter can't? esp. when sabes (and the trio) is stronger, faster, and even more highly trained than these guys.

now on to my final point. I've seen you bring up spidey getting his arm broken by 30 supervillains a number of times between this and the trio thread, but are you aware that 20 or so common street gansters almost got the best of spidey before he beat feet out of that situation? In a stan lee written comic at that. I think he's more aware of his own character than you. Spidey's been hit by slower, less trained, less experiences fighters than sabes. Sabretooth has everything it takes and more to take down spidey. once again it all comes down to the webbing, but webbing can be dodged and sabes isn't going to let spiderman have some leisure time to refill. Sabretooth 6 or 7 out of 10.

And when has Spidey NOT reacted to an attack in the right way? I can't recollect something like that happening with an opponent slower than he was and, hey, wait, isn't Sabe slower than he is? And there are plenty of characters thats houldn't be able to dodge bullets but can, I guess ever since Spidey started it up way back in the day, it's become some sort of fad. And you can't actually expect me to believe Batman or Wolvie dodging bullets, not like Spidey has....maybe, JUST maybe, they have a chance of dodging a few but a flurry of gunfire is just too far fetched, as for Spidey, it's nothing he shouldn't be able to do. You act as though everyone should, by now, have reflexes like Spidey's. Fact of the matter is, they don't. And there you go again with the street-level characters, I'm telling you that NONE of them are faster than a bullet, and believe me, the times that Spidey has dodged bullets among other things and people MANY times faster than any peak human greatly outweighs Spidey getting tagged by the likes of DD, Cap, and other people who have no buisness getting off more than two punches (assuming Spidey doesn't want to come full-circle with those reflexes of his, making him pretty much untouchable to the likes of the characters listed there).

Vulture pummeling Spidey in close quarters combat? Who has the vastly superior superhuman strength here? And reflexes? Spidey's other attributes shouldn't have even mattered....

And Doc Doom a street level character? That'll be the day.....

Fact of the matter is that most street-level characters are written doing things they have no buisness doing physically because otherwise they'd be virtually useless. Not even Wolvie with his "oh so mighty" healing factor shouldn't have walked away from a thermonuclear blast when years back he had trouble healing an eye. And Spidey's arm being broken during a fight with 30 supervillains at one time is no coincidence. Spidey spraining his arm from a fall of 2 stories when he can get up pretty much unharmed after a 5 story fall just by bracing himself isn't the best way of representing a character. Personally, when you take into perspective the punishment Spidey can take such as rolling with punches from teh Thing

Sorry, in the post above me I was rushing through and pressed a button on my keyboard that posted it too early. I tried editing it but I ended up dragging on for too long and before I knew it my 15 minutes expired.

Moving on, jinzin, Stan Lee has already made it clear that Spidey is more than human and in being so he can take ALOT more punishment than humans could. He was also the man that gave Spidey the powers nessecary to make him more than too much for any human realistically. I don't think you need me to go over the list.

As for your argument about the Enforcers, that was with the young and inexperienced Spidey, not the more developed and kempt with his powers Spidey that trashed the Enforcers in their second encounter.

And let's not forget that Shocker is a human no matter which way you slice it, so one shot to his skull (that Spidey could've easily delivered, by the way) should've made any fight between them over and done.

And please, don't try and sway me with the comparison of 30 supervillains attacking Spidey and 20 street gang members. One peppered up punch from Spidey (one where he didn't hold back ALOT for their sake as he always does) would've been all he needed for each one. He could've mowed his way through the lot of them, there's no contest there.

Fact of the matter is that when it's all said and done and the two are compared that the fastest, strongest, most agile, most elastic, most intelligent, most maneuverable in aerial terms, and most reactive of the two will be Spidey. Don't tell me that a guy with an unmatched combination of superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, elastcity, etc is going to be outdone by a bar room brawler with claws, a healing factor, and more or less superhuman strength. PIS, CIS, and crap writing in general may even out well in the comicdom, but here, it just doesn't apply. Spidey takes the majority.

why do those in favor of sabe keep saying "when" sabe gets a hit in... spidey's faster and stronger... couldnt he just knock him out in one hit? Or better yet... in MK spidey recently was able to catch a sh*tload of building pieces before they hit the public below with his webbing... i'm willing to bet he has good enough aim to catch sabe either in the face (blinding him, leaving him open for an easy KO), or around the lets or something, letting him swing the guy around at his leisure, eventually into the ground or something, knocking him out...

Originally posted by Heracles
Thing is if your talking SS #116 your talking the original Sabretooth which as I have mentioned in the Luke Cage vs Sabretooth thread is a tough but limited foe.

Old Creed has been through some serious changes and power upgrades since then so its a completely different fight now.

Personally I can't pick a winner here but it's gonna get ugly whatever the result!

OK, cool. I was just checking to see if the comic was brought up.

I heard Creed is stronger, but would you mind telling me exactly what all of his upgrades have been since his humiliating defeat?

well for one thing alone, he has a healing factor. lol. As hard as that is to believe he didn't show any signs of having one back in the day. After pulling the webbing off of his face he hadn't even recovered by 2 months later. In the same token sabretooth took the same kinds of injuries by wolverine's hands and healed in three panals, and that was with adamantium which slows down the healing factor. With adamantium his healing factor is faster than wolverine's without adamantium. Wolverine without his adamantium poisoning slowing him down puts his healing factor into overdrive to the point where xavier said at one point the only real way to kill wolverine would be a quick decapitation. Sabretooth's being faster than that is absurd perhaps but no less valid. Sabretooth now has superstrength in excess of 5 to 6 tons for sure possibly even 10 though the limits of his physical strength have not yet been tested. Read a few of my previous posts for sabretooth "feats of strength". Also as I said he's got unbreakable adamantium now.

So kontraz, that's why spidey isn't KOing sabretooth. Spidey gave "everything he had" addmittedly to wolverine with full on blows to the face. Sabretooth has a faster healing factor that allows him to recover from being stabbed in the brain in a few hours, or minutes, he has an adamantium skeleton as well, and is waaaaay physically stronger than wolverine. Spiderman isn't knocking out anyone.
Strawnilla, your whole defense for spiderman is that he will win since he can't be hit, when he has been hit by street-speed characters hundres of times......FREAKING HUNDREDS. (by the way I wasn't calling doom a street level character, I was insinuating that his fighting speed is at a street level, he has no super reflexes or super speed in a fist fight, and he was able to pummble spidey with ease, almost killing him. You want to take the (crap writing argument) CWA out of this than fine, I'll put you between a rock and a hard place. In Punisher's first appearance spidey was able to dodge bullets and was later kicked in the grill by pun,,,,,so was that crap writing? If you say yes than spiderman bullet dodging is too, if you say no than you have to concede that street-speed characters can hit spidey....pick your poison but either way, it doesn't change the fact that spiderman has been hit and will continue to be hit by street-speed characters for years. By the way, you don't believe bats can dodge flurries of bullets? how many batman comics have you read? pfffft. Being more elastic, book smart, slightly stronger, slightly faster, and more agile will do him nothing as soon as sabretooth gets in his one good hit. You keep forgeting to add a couple of things there Who can take more punishment? who can take more punishment and keep coming? who has the killer instinct? who isn't above using "bait" to his advantage?
Spiderman tops out sabes in a number of factors it's true but spiderman can't hit sabretooth with anything that will put sabretooth down. It all comes down to the webbing. And if spiderman can't capitalize on it than he's screwed it's that simple.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
OK, cool. I was just checking to see if the comic was brought up.

I heard Creed is stronger, but would you mind telling me exactly what all of his upgrades have been since his humiliating defeat?

No Problem someone can correct me of I get any of these wrong.

He now has Super Strength I'm not sure how strong he is but Children of the Atom gives it at 7 tons and he has been seen flipping cars so who knows.

His Healing factor has been amped up.

And he now has Admantium bonded to his skeleton like Wolverine so is claws are now Admantium to.

When he fought Spidey in SS 116 he was at peak human strength had no admantium and a rather limited healing factor.

But again I think these upgrades make it a much tougher fight than before but I really don't know who would win there are good points on both sides here (as well as some bad ones) I think it would be a toss up personally and it would be a hell of a fight and depend on who the writer was as to who would be the Victor.

agreed, if it's a spidey comic, parker's gonna run all over sabretooth, because the only badguys that beat heroes in they're own comics are one of three thigs, either A. the anti version of the hero ie venom. B. an entirely new villain making his first appearance, or C. the comback villain who is now stronger anf faster yadda yadda.

But spiderman would have to be crazy to fight sabes in his own special, victor can't lose!

lol.

In a Spidey Annual....Spidey Wins

In a Sabretooth Annual....they stalemate eachother.

Sabretooth isn't going to lose in his own comic, but Marvel isn't going to let Sabretooth have his way with their golden boy.

I don't think SM could win at all.
People keep saying that Creed wouldn't land a punch!!!
Wow obviously these folks don't care much to know anything about Creed.
Spidey wouldn't get hit. then he would go apeshit, then his webbing???
Anything else?? None of your arguments make sense. Among SM's opponents I could honestly say that about maybe two or three at the most are a serious threat. Carnage, Rhino and Venom. The rest people suck ass!!!!