All Of Star Trek Vs All Of Star Wars

Originally posted by TRSundown
Star Trek 💃 again I say... CANON! What is canon? Thats what this should be based on... Hell if it thats the case then I will quickly design a massive starship manufacturing plant that kicks out Federation vessels that are ten times the size and power of Star Destroyers at a rate of one per second... Write a book about it and then WOO HOO... ST wins... pathetic.

Hell...
You realy want to know what is considered "canon" in the SW universe ? Basically everything that comes out of all those nice Lucas companies (Lucas Arts, Lucasfilm...and so on).
I know the ST-vs-SW website doubts this because of several quotes from Lucas himself, Sansweet and so on. But this is just a question of interpretation.
Lucas is the all-seeing eye in his own universe. I would hardly doubt that there is anything done without his permission. The statements about the EU only say that the EU can not be considered "canon" because Lucas might come up with other ideas.

For example:
You can say that KOTOR is canon (LA considers Light Side ending as canon), as long as Lucas doesn't come up saying "There was no war against the Mandalorians, there was no Jedi Civil war because I will make some films about that time in the SW universe and there will be none of that in them." Or make it just like that: You can consider things to be canon when they

a) come somewhere out of the Lucas Entertainment group (Lucasfilm, Lucas Arts and so on...)
b) don't mess around with the things told in the films (I never seen anything in the EU dissenting the films)

Not that there is even a use for any discussion on that point. Not if it is based on what the ST-vs-SW website says because they even consider "Technical Manuals" not to be canon. And that is the first mistake done there. The Technical Manuals (or Technical Journals) deal with things used in the film - so nothing more than a "technical novilisation" of the films.

I dont think anyone has provided any kind of reliable support for that argument. In FACT I have provided support for the ST side that is a whole hell of a lot more logical with a more scientific approach than anything the SW side has put up.

There is no use to discuss fiction with a "scientific approach". If you want to have it that way I can easily proof to you (math + physic) that a warp drive as displayed in ST would never work. Boom..ST universe gone. Do you think that would be useful ?

And you just kept throwing in things from the ST-vs-SW site. Nice...so I will just go on and prove them wrong.

a) Hyperdrive speed
Totaly wrong thinking here. In the SW movies they messed up units refering to time and distance (Parsec). Parsec is used as a time reference in ANH (Han Solo talking about the Millenium Falcon: "It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve
parsecs!"😉. That would be like saying "I travelled thousands miles in 12 kilometres". Of course...totally senceless.

But it IS canon that the Millenium Falcon was flying from Tatooine to Alderaan in about 7 hours and the distance between Tatooine and Alderaan (also canon) is about 40.000 lightyears. So actualy the Millenium Falcon did travel with 50,000,000 C.

Using Warp 9,999 the same distance would need 72 days travel time.
Conclusion: Hyperspace > Warp

b) Weapons (Range and Firepower)

Range:
ST-vs-SW site does only argue on following scenes
1) Millenium Falcon fire at TIE fighters in ANH
2) Slave I attacking Obi-Wan in AOTC
3) Trade Fedeartion attacking Jedi flying away from Naboo in TPM

In conclusion saying that possible maximum range for SW weapons is about 100 kilometres. Excuse me please. How can you even THINK about attacking a target on the surface of a planet from the orbit of the same planet with weapons that only have a range of 100 kilometres ? In ESB they just can't destroy the base on Hoth because of the planetary shield not because the lack of range . Considering earth a "lower orbit" is around 800 kilometres from the planets surface. A "normal" orbit would be something like 30,000 kilometres from the surface (that is the hight geostational satelites of the earth use - and I think that would be an orbit a Stardestroyer would attack a planet from).
So a Stardestroyer must have weapons with a range of something like 30,000 kilometres through an atmosphere. In space that things would have a even greater range. Enough logic ?

Power:
I will start with the most powerful weapon in "canon" SW universe. That would be the Death Star. So take a careful look at Alderaan blown away.
You can see - at the late stages of the explosion - that the debris is clearly not concentric with the initial position of Alderaan. Thereby you can suggest momentum transfer to a huge part of the planetary surface. Well...the estimated mean recoil velocity of the ex-Alderaanian matter is on the order of 6.7 x 106 metres / second in the plane of the picture, or an impulse of 4.0 x 1031 kg metres / second. A massless beam delivering this amount of momentum would need a total energy around 1.2 x (10 exponent 30) GJ or 2.8 x (10 exponent 27) gigatons. Boom ?

And a normal SD's turbolaser canon. Well...they blow asteroids away like the ST ships doing it with photontorpedos. So why should the photon torpedos be more powerful than fire from a turbolaser. I don't get the point here. Estimating they both have the same firepower still the SW ships have a higher firerate and can use more weapons at once.

Conclusion: SW (with death star) > ST in firepower. The normal weapons used might be equal.

and I think we have beat that like a dead horse... and the argument well Super SD's can level plants so they can kill Borg too is childish and unsupportable... Plants... stationary LARGE targets... Borg Cubes... fast manuverable targets. Humm...

Shooting hundrets of weapons on a single target > manuverability
Using force > Borg cube

Well I will tell you what else is in the ST universe... The race that created the Dyson Sphere... a habitable sphere that surrounds an ENTIRE SUN! and harnesses the power from that sun for an almost unlimited supply of power.

Did you ever came across the Star Forge or Kuat Drive Yards (a ship manufacturing system that surrounds an ENTIRE STAR SYSTEM !)

Humm what else... actually, I cant count the number of super human races that have jedi like powers... there are just to many of them. Okay, what else...

Jedi like powers ? Races ? Throw the Sith Empire (1000 generations of Sith and Sith Lords), the Jedi Order (1000 generations of Jedi) and all the other groups that use the force (Nightsisters of Dathomir for example) in. Do you have some people in the ST universe that:

- could blow up planets
- could control black holes
- could control gravity
- could drain the life of entire planets/races

No ?

Quantum Cingularity power sources, temporal weapons, subspace weapons, phased cloaking devices, the Dooms Day Machine... Im gonna have to go back and catalog all this stuff cause there is just to much... plus the Borg which are said to have over 100,000 cubes in there fleet...

Just quoting: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." (Darth Vader - A New Hope)

Look... there is nothing you can say that is going to make me think that ST is just going to get whiped off the map... It aint going to happen.

On a technological level they maybe won't get whiped off the map...
Throw billions of force users in and they are gone.

Its against my better judgment but I am going to respond to this...

THANK YOU FOR USING SOME LOGIC IN YOUR ARGUMENT!

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Hell...
You realy want to know what is considered "canon" in the SW universe ? Basically everything that comes out of all those nice Lucas companies (Lucas Arts, Lucasfilm...and so on)...

...Manuals (or Technical Journals) deal with things used in the film - so nothing more than a "technical novilisation" of the films.

Okay so we basically consider just about anything published as canon... Thats cool... I didnt really like that cheap cop out anyways... But think about this... Star Trek has more movies, 5 different TV series, and more books than the SW universe does... Granted the SW timeline spans longer than ST by oh at least 9700 years but if you include all the different races in the ST universe and all their history dont you think the timelines become a bit more even... I mean the Klingon empire has a history longer than the 300 years of the Federation... I dont think the ST universe would catch up but with this thinking it helps even the odds.

There is no use to discuss fiction with a "scientific approach". If you want to have it that way I can easily proof to you (math + physic) that a warp drive as displayed in ST would never work. Boom..ST universe gone. Do you think that would be useful ?

Well if you think about it that way then everything in every universe can be disproved... especially the Force and lightsabers... so lets not go there cause then we would have nothing to argue over... 😆

And you just kept throwing in things from the ST-vs-SW site. Nice...so I will just go on and prove them wrong.

a) Hyperdrive speed
Totaly wrong thinking here... ...totally senceless.

But it IS canon that the Millenium Falcon was flying from Tatooine to Alderaan in about 7 hours and the distance between Tatooine and Alderaan (also canon) is about 40.000 lightyears. So actualy the Millenium Falcon did travel with 50,000,000 C.

Using Warp 9,999 the same distance would need 72 days travel time.
Conclusion: Hyperspace > Warp

I really believe that there are to many inconsistancies in the SW universe to really define the speed... HOWEVER... the Emperor did travel from Coruscant to Mostifar (outer rim - right?) in the time it took Obi and Anikin to fight... I dont think they were fighting for hours... more like 20 to 30 minutes... So I would probably agree with the theory that SW is faster than ST... but there is no real factual evidence... not that you can have fact inside fiction... But I am sure you get what I mean.

b) Weapons (Range and Firepower)

Range:
ST-vs-SW site does [b]only argue on following scenes
1) Millenium Falcon fire at TIE fighters in ANH
2) Slave I attacking Obi-Wan in AOTC
3) Trade Fedeartion attacking Jedi flying away from Naboo in TPM

In conclusion saying that possible maximum range for SW weapons is about 100 kilometres. Excuse me please. How can you even THINK about attacking a target on the surface of a planet from the orbit of the same planet with weapons that only have a range of 100 kilometres ? In ESB they just can't destroy the base on Hoth because of the planetary shield not because the lack of range . Considering earth a "lower orbit" is around 800 kilometres from the planets surface. A "normal" orbit would be something like 30,000 kilometres from the surface (that is the hight geostational satelites of the earth use - and I think that would be an orbit a Stardestroyer would attack a planet from).
So a Stardestroyer must have weapons with a range of something like 30,000 kilometres through an atmosphere. In space that things would have a even greater range. Enough logic ?[/b]

I have to agree here too... your range argument is good... BUT... the Enterprise can fire from orbit to planetary surface as well... They can even use their phasers to drill to the core of a planet, and thats at a fairly low energy setting. Turbo lasers just impact on the surface (granted they cause lots of devistation). Also as stated before, turbo lasers are a charged gas right? Well that gas will dissapate over distance more than a focused "pure" energy beam would (like a phaser). Not saying phasers are more powerful... but they are pure energy and can cut to the core of a planet.

Power:
I will start with the most powerful weapon in "canon" SW universe. That would be the Death Star. So take a careful look at Alderaan blown away.
You can see - at the late stages of the explosion - that the debris is clearly not concentric with the initial position of Alderaan. Thereby you can suggest momentum transfer to a huge part of the planetary surface. Well...the estimated mean recoil velocity of the ex-Alderaanian matter is on the order of 6.7 x 106 metres / second in the plane of the picture, or an impulse of 4.0 x 1031 kg metres / second. A massless beam delivering this amount of momentum would need a total energy around 1.2 x (10 exponent 30) GJ or 2.8 x (10 exponent 27) gigatons. Boom ?

And a normal SD's turbolaser canon. Well...they blow asteroids away like the ST ships doing it with photontorpedos. So why should the photon torpedos be more powerful than fire from a turbolaser. I don't get the point here. Estimating they both have the same firepower still the SW ships have a higher firerate and can use more weapons at once.

Conclusion: SW (with death star) > ST in firepower. The normal weapons used might be equal.

I am not going to mess with the Death Star... but I dissagree that its the most powerful... I would say that the Sun Crusher is more powerful. Not important though...

Okay...
A SD can blow up an asteroid with a turbo laser... Star Destroyer = 1.6 kilometers in size (???I think).

A Federation ship can blow up an asteroid with a photon torpedo. Voyager = like 400 meters (or something like that)
or
Defiant with Quantum Torpedos can blow up an asteroid... Defiant = 120 or 170 meters depending on where you look...

so you really can say that big things come in small packages. My point here is that a ship 1/4 (one quarter) of the size of a Star Destroyer displayes an equal level of fire power. No one can say if the weapons were at their maximum strength levels or not... And I am not saying that ST is more powerful... But if the Defiant at 170 meters displays the same type of fire power as a Star Destroyer then how does that stack against a 680 meter Souverign Class Battleship that outputs 10 times as much power as the Defiant. AND if ST can pack an equal display of fire power into a ship thats only 170 meters... put that to the scale of a Star Destroyer and see what happens.

Shooting hundrets of weapons on a single target > manuverability

I would like to see a SD take on the Defiants manuverability... That would be cool to watch.

Hundreds of weapons?? RPG stats that I have seen list it at 73... and 50 of those are small point defense weapons. The RPG stats list only 8 fixed direction cannons and only 9 turrets for their turbo laser compliment... I dont know how accurate that is but its all I could find on short notice...

A Souverign Class Battle Ship from Star Trek has 14 phaser emitters and 5 torpedo tubes... thats not to shabby... Especially if my size=power comparison means anything (not saying it does)... and the emitters are all multi-directional.

Using force > Borg cube[quote]

There have been so many different super beings in ST that I really cant even begin to do this comparison... So I will leave this alone for now.

[quote]Did you ever came across the Star Forge or Kuat Drive Yards (a ship manufacturing system that surrounds an ENTIRE STAR SYSTEM !)

Not sure about the Star Forge. I have not read that series of books... But the Kuat Drive Yards is not a big bubble in space built around a sun. Its a massive ship yard that is spread out through the entire system. Have you ever been to a ship building yard... I have. Its not one big place... its a bunch of ship building docks spread out over a given space... thats what Kuat Drive Yards is...

Jedi like powers ? Races ? Throw the Sith Empire (1000 generations of Sith and Sith Lords), the Jedi Order (1000 generations of Jedi) and all the other groups that use the force (Nightsisters of Dathomir for example) in. Do you have some people in the ST universe that:

- could blow up planets
- could control black holes
- could control gravity
- could drain the life of entire planets/races

No ?

Umm... Yes but as I said before... there are too many of them so I have to do some research and get back to ya... 😉

Just quoting: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." (Darth Vader - A New Hope)

On a technological level they maybe won't get whiped off the map...
Throw billions of force users in and they are gone.

In the long run... I think SW would probably win... The Federation/ST universe could probably not hold out...

But in the short term... first few days/weeks/months/years of combat the ST universe could do some serious damage...

Oh and just so you know... the sw-vs-st.com website was actually the Galactic Empire vs. the Federation... which is the way it should be. Good vs. Evil.

Star Wars would beat the living h*** out of Star Trek

P.S. Star Trek SUCKS!

Originally posted by Fishy
I'm not ignoring anything here but you guys constantly change things the way you want it. Think of impossibility and wild guesses when the most we have is something you don't even consider becuase it wasn't one, or something shitty like that.

There really is a Species 8472 with bio ships that are really not that bigger than a defiant class ship, I think, but a group of them can replicate Star Destroyer feats in an oddly Star Destroyer like (at the bottom) pattern in addition to their regular firepower.

The Death Star would wipe out all the Trekies with no effort.

Folks as much as I would like to say Star Wars wins until someone pops out with some wierd EU SW comics stuff to many different weapons in ST.....for SW to win ...swanky is right! (No offense Fishy your like me you want SW to win but your also like me you do go with the facts)...But in SW defense (which I dont think you like this guy either fishy..lol) is NJO Luke.....since no Q in this battle according to the creator of the thread... ST will have the hardest time defeating the fleet which he commands! (IF they even can)Now we do have a new SW tv series coming out too so this thread may last a long long long LONG time! Who knows what new things(weapons etc) Lucas will throw in the mix!

Originally posted by TRSundown
Well even though I didnt say it, what I really ment was that it was pointless to argue with you cause you just cant stand the idea that ST has the potential (with proper support and debate) to be equal to SW.

Oh and by the way... that last post of yours made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I'm saying the same thing about you. You just can't accept ST would lose

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I'm not making anything up. There really are weapons that attack time and weapons that can phase through shields and matter.

There really is a Species 8472 with bio ships that are really not that bigger than a defiant class ship, I think, but a group of them can replicate Star Destroyer feats in an oddly Star Destroyer like (at the bottom) pattern in addition to their regular firepower.

Your not making things up, but at one time the speed discussion was over and won by SW then it was back up, then the asteroid. First it was an asteroird then it wasn't...

Originally posted by Fishy
Your not making things up, but at one time the speed discussion was over and won by SW then it was back up, then the asteroid. First it was an asteroird then it wasn't...

But the asteroid... was an asteroid but it artificial. The point of that was that they thought an asteroid that size made of the componants they thought it was made of would go up in one torpedo. But it didn't because the astroids were stronger. Probably to cause more damage to the planet.

Originally posted by Fishy
I'm saying the same thing about you. You just can't accept ST would lose

Actually there are several places in here where I agreed that ST was inferior... but I think that ST has a lot of superior things as well... I dont think SW would loose and I dont think that ST would loose... It would be one big massive bloody war and everyone would loose due to the catastrophic amounts of damage and loss of life.

I actually would accept it if I believed it... but I just dont think that ST would go down as easily as all you SW finatics think it would.

Oh and just so you know what side I am really on... I have a whole basement full of Star Wars collectables, plastic modles, movie posters, Force FX lightsabers (three of them), half size R2D2 working robot, 1/4 size motorized/talking yoda, my own Darth Vader helmet, all the movies, lots of comics, and lots of books, 18 different SW video games... Plus more stuff that I cant even remember... My insurance company has given me a $18,000 insurance policy against my collection.

My Star Trek collection consists of the movies, a few plastic modles, a few books, most of the comics, and about 6 ST video games...

SO based on that... which side do you really think I am on...

The only reason I am arguing for ST, besides the fact that I do like it (although not as much as SW) is because people were just saying, Oh SW would win cause we got the Death Star... or because we got the force... And after I started looking into the fight between the two I actually started to agree with much of what I was saying...

Did I ever claim it would be easy for SW I said they would do it. Why the hell were we argueing then?

Originally posted by TRSundown
Okay so we basically consider just about anything published as canon... Thats cool... I didnt really like that cheap cop out anyways... But think about this... Star Trek has more movies, 5 different TV series, and more books than the SW universe does... Granted the SW timeline spans longer than ST by oh at least 9700 years but if you include all the different races in the ST universe and all their history dont you think the timelines become a bit more even... I mean the Klingon empire has a history longer than the 300 years of the Federation... I dont think the ST universe would catch up but with this thinking it helps even the odds.

Well...there is a difference between the SW and the ST universe. Most publications in the ST universe are basically "fan fiction" while the SW -book authors get assignments directly from Lucasfilm and everything they produce is part of a general continuity in the SW universe and can be used in other circumstances.

For example: The character "Exar Kun" (with his complete history) was created by Kevin J. Anderson for his Jedi Academy trilogy. In the books we don't get that much knowledge about Exar so they created a comic series about his history. And that comic series (basically Tales of the Jedi #1 and #2) was continued and later taken as basement for the KOTOR games.
You can see that all stories told in the EU are linked to gether. Books to films, comics to the books and the computer games to books and comics.

That is the difference between SW EU and the ST EU.

I really believe that there are to many inconsistancies in the SW universe to really define the speed... HOWEVER... the Emperor did travel from Coruscant to Mostifar (outer rim - right?) in the time it took Obi and Anikin to fight... I dont think they were fighting for hours... more like 20 to 30 minutes... So I would probably agree with the theory that SW is faster than ST... but there is no real factual evidence... not that you can have fact inside fiction... But I am sure you get what I mean.

Well...we are discussing here on things that being displayed as canon. The speed of the Millenium Falcon (as I posted) can be seen as "canon". I don't wanted to proof without any doubt that SW is faster than ST. My motivation was to proof the ST-vs-SW site wrong and as you can see the creator of this page simply denies arguments for the SW universe to win.

I have to agree here too... your range argument is good... BUT... the Enterprise can fire from orbit to planetary surface as well... They can even use their phasers to drill to the core of a planet, and thats at a fairly low energy setting. Turbo lasers just impact on the surface (granted they cause lots of devistation). Also as stated before, turbo lasers are a charged gas right? Well that gas will dissapate over distance more than a focused "pure" energy beam would (like a phaser). Not saying phasers are more powerful... but they are pure energy and can cut to the core of a planet.

Correct. But that was another attempt to proof the ST-vs-SW site author wrong. Suggesting SW weapons have a 100 KM maximum range is a joke.
On firepower: For me that is a question where I ask myself what weapons would actually cause more damage. In my oppinion the ST phasers are very precise weapons and in every kind of situation they realy have to destroy something, they use their photon torpedos since they do more damage (or lets say they are better in "area destruction"😉.
So in my personal oppinion the fire of a turbo laser battery could be compared to a photon torpedo launcher that fires faster. (And therefore I have to say that the shield systems of the SW universe are superior to the ones in the ST universe).

I am not going to mess with the Death Star... but I dissagree that its the most powerful... I would say that the Sun Crusher is more powerful. Not important though...

That depends on how you look at power. The Sun Crusher needs quite a bit of time to blow a sun up. Most likely a few hours. Surely it causes a greater destruction but on the other hand it is less precise compared to the Death Star and has nearly no use in a direct combat.

Okay...
A SD can blow up an asteroid with a turbo laser... Star Destroyer = 1.6 kilometers in size (???I think).

A Federation ship can blow up an asteroid with a photon torpedo. Voyager = like 400 meters (or something like that)
or
Defiant with Quantum Torpedos can blow up an asteroid... Defiant = 120 or 170 meters depending on where you look...

so you really can say that big things come in small packages. My point here is that a ship 1/4 (one quarter) of the size of a Star Destroyer displayes an equal level of fire power. No one can say if the weapons were at their maximum strength levels or not... And I am not saying that ST is more powerful... But if the Defiant at 170 meters displays the same type of fire power as a Star Destroyer then how does that stack against a 680 meter Souverign Class Battleship that outputs 10 times as much power as the Defiant. AND if ST can pack an equal display of fire power into a ship thats only 170 meters... put that to the scale of a Star Destroyer and see what happens.

Well...
I think that is a little bit of a logic error here. If you suggest the turbo lasers and photon torpedos have an equal firepower still the SW ships would have more weapons compared to the ST ships.

A SD has 12 (ISD-I) or 64 (ISD-II) turbo laser barrels on it. An "Executor" class SD would have (close up counting) 616 turbo lasers barrels (that thing is 11 x length of a normal SD, 6 x wide, twice as high - so that amount of weapons would be possible).

The "normal" ST ships have 2 or 3 photon torpedo tubes and 6-10 phasers. So an ISD-II has 5 times the firepower of a ST ship, the Executor has about 50 times the firepower of an ST ship. Not mentioning that they have a greater firerate and don't need that much time for targeting.

I would like to see a SD take on the Defiants manuverability... That would be cool to watch.

Hundreds of weapons?? RPG stats that I have seen list it at 73... and 50 of those are small point defense weapons. The RPG stats list only 8 fixed direction cannons and only 9 turrets for their turbo laser compliment... I dont know how accurate that is but its all I could find on short notice...

See statement above. Also SDs are able to hit ships like the Millenium Falcon and Starfighters both smaller and faster than the Defiance or a Borg cube. And they have tractor beams...

A Souverign Class Battle Ship from Star Trek has 14 phaser emitters and 5 torpedo tubes... thats not to shabby... Especially if my size=power comparison means anything (not saying it does)... and the emitters are all multi-directional.

See above...

Not sure about the Star Forge. I have not read that series of books... But the Kuat Drive Yards is not a big bubble in space built around a sun. Its a massive ship yard that is spread out through the entire system. Have you ever been to a ship building yard... I have. Its not one big place... its a bunch of ship building docks spread out over a given space... thats what Kuat Drive Yards is...

The Star Forge is part of the KOTOR games. Basically a ship construction system that receives power directly from a star and thereby is able to produce an unlimited amount of ships within seconds (starfighters and capital ships).
Kuat Drive Yards is not a big bubble. Right. The main shipyards at the Kuat system actually ring the entire system and in terms of sheer manufacturing ability outclass everything else.

Umm... Yes but as I said before... there are too many of them so I have to do some research and get back to ya... 😉

I know ST has a huge amount of species or beings with supernatural powers. But their powers are limited and most of that beings are not "evil" - not realy. Now compare that to the ancient Sith Lords that were - in terms of "normal" people - godlike beings without any limitations (like moral). That guys did blow up stars to save their lifes or drained the life of an entire race or planet and there are 1000 generations of them (since it said ALL of Star Wars). And another 1000 generations of Jedi Knights. And we are talking about whole force sensitive species (Dathomir witches, Yodas species) and other species with supernatural powers (whole species of telepaths, Echani fighters, Mandalorians, Yuuzhan Vong etc.)

But in the short term... first few days/weeks/months/years of combat the ST universe could do some serious damage...

Well. In my imagination this was a huge space battle and maybe some ground combat the same time (all ST ships vs. all SW ships / all ST troups vs. all SW troups). And in this case the ST universe won't come out of it alive.

Okay... Okay... I give... I cant keep going back and forth. There are to many logical dissimilarities and I have run out of ideas on how to defent ST... thats not saying I am changing my mind or that I am giving up... I am just to tired to think right now...

AND considering the title of this thread... ALL of SW vs ALL of ST - Q, I will give it to the SW side. There is just to much history involved and would overwhelm the ST side.

Besides... if it took all the Jedi (thousands) of the time to ban together to defeat just one dark lord of the Sith... Exar Kun, then I cant imagin what kind of power there would be if ALL the dark lords combined their power.

Time incursions!

TRS you gave into the power of the darkside...lol...really none of the dark lords matter.....dont forget kess...shes more powerful than any jedi or sithlord(sept maybe NJO LUKE he was both jedi and sithlord)....to much history in both is why this debate cannot end unless SW really steps NJO LUKE up a couple notches to clearly be the deciding factor,,,in my mind he already would be the deciding factor able to counter everyone in ST power - Q maybe but hes not in this one....Kess is about #2 in ST as far as power I think.....she just thought it and hurled voyager how many lightyears ahead? Luke would have to sense her power and be concentrating to block her power use.....oh if I could just illustrate my thoughts I would be reading comics forever...lol....thats why I love these stories you guys write tis the next best thing....lol...anyways back to my drink

Throwing a ship away is nice, blowing it up is well better.. Just removing from time and spice is also a possibility, you could throw a sun at it, or simply kill anybody on board the ship...

One ship is absolutely nothing for a powerful Jedi/Sith

lol...true but she was a peaceful creature...lol...she evolved into pure thought energy didnt die in the process either just evolution...similiar to something like the force itself maybe? BUT I like the the removing from time and spce thought though....tis more fitting(Q type power)...who in SW has that power? They would be a damn good arguement for SW side...I never read anything about anyone in SW doing that!!!!woohoo
Go SW!!! I was wrong Fishy you dont go with the facts like me your not that easy...lol...you just come with some new facts!!!! Go Fishy!! (guess Im just to easy due to all the chosen drink...lol) speakin of which...lol

Luke created black holes that removed things or made entire planets invisible... He sort of removed them, its going to be hard to find or fight something when its invisible.

yep Lukes da man!

Originally posted by Fishy
Throwing a ship away is nice, blowing it up is well better.. Just removing from time and spice is also a possibility, you could throw a sun at it, or simply kill anybody on board the ship...

One ship is absolutely nothing for a powerful Jedi/Sith

If any of said suns are destroyed by the temporal weaponed ships it could possibly lead to the end of Star Wars but I'm not going to play that particular card because the results of the star never existing could be anything.