dont even know anything really about obsidion. i liked the bioware games i have played (swbf1 and 2 lmao) ea games, ubisoft, and a few others i dont care to mention.
dont care, it would probably have the same graphix/gameplay. all i really care about is if the storyline writers knew wtf they were doing...
id still play it, however much they screwed it up, if not just to pay homage to kotor 1 and find out what happened after kotor 2
just beat kotor 2 today
velho
spam force crushed kreia. good game. doesnt live up to the first. good storyline, no twist. kreia even says so. in the end when you ask "why me" she says something along the lines of "what did you expect, 'i am your mother'?"
so yea. there was absolutely no twist. i dont see how they could make a twist for kotor 3.
well remember that alot of stuff was left out of kotor 2 because it was rushed. if it hadn't been rushed in production i think the story would have been great i mean not as good as as kotor 1 but still alot better than it is or at least it would provide answers to everything that they left unanswered due to being rushed.
also team gizka is working on putting together all of the lost content and i dunno when they will release it or if they can but i'm going to go check it out right now.
Originally posted by Kapton JACYou speak more out of ignorance than you do fact.
That's the thing though, Odsidian didn't know wtf they were doing.
LA didn't give Obsidian enough time to finish Kotor2, that's why it's messed up. Infact, if you read through some of what they were planning on introducing into Kotor2 in their production notes, Kotor2 wouldve been even better than Kotor1.
It's a damn shame LA had to **** things up just to make more $$$...
Originally posted by City Hunter
Infact, if you read through some of what they were planning on introducing into Kotor2 in their production notes, Kotor2 wouldve been even better than Kotor1.
An oft-spoken myth. First of all, there is always a huge gulf between what people WANT to put in and what actually CAN go in. Don;t assume all that would have gone perfectly when, frankly, quite a bit of the stuff they did put in as planned was not great.
But secondly. KOTOR's II problems were so fundamental that no amount of extra time would have significantly helped it. The fact is that it was repetitive, unimaginative, and simply had nothing really new to offer.
Frankly, damn right LA hurried them up before it became an even more pointless cow of a game. They had to go for it whilst the hype was still strong because as a game in of itself, time would have only made it more disappointing.
All Obsidian did was take someone else's product, design a scenario pack for it, and try an overlay enough stuff to try and justify it as a new game.
Another game like that would kill the franchise for sure.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
An oft-spoken myth. First of all, there is always a huge gulf between what people WANT to put in and what actually CAN go in. Don;t assume all that would have gone perfectly when, frankly, quite a bit of the stuff they did put in as planned was not great.But secondly. KOTOR's II problems were so fundamental that no amount of extra time would have significantly helped it. The fact is that it was repetitive, unimaginative, and simply had nothing really new to offer.
Frankly, damn right LA hurried them up before it became an even more pointless cow of a game. They had to go for it whilst the hype was still strong because as a game in of itself, time would have only made it more disappointing.
All Obsidian did was take someone else's product, design a scenario pack for it, and try an overlay enough stuff to try and justify it as a new game.
Another game like that would kill the franchise for sure.
It saddens me to say that I agree almost wholeheartedly with you, Ush. I still have some of that madness that makes me think more time would've helped, but I also agree that's probably bunk and wishful thinking.
Originally posted by UshgarakActually, a lot of fans of Kotor1 had a warm reception towards the cut content and expressed interest in it being restored(Check Obsidian's, TheForce.net's, and Wookieepedias forums, if you don't believe me), otherwise Team Gizka wouldn't have even bothered on restoring the content.
An oft-spoken myth. First of all, there is always a huge gulf between what people WANT to put in and what actually CAN go in. Don;t assume all that would have gone perfectly when, frankly, quite a bit of the stuff they did put in as planned was not great.
Second, that's your individual opinion, don't go trying to pass it off as fact.
But secondly. KOTOR's II problems were so fundamental that no amount of extra time would have significantly helped it. The fact is that it was repetitive, unimaginative, and simply had nothing really new to offer.Again, your opinion. They even admitted on their site that if they had more time to fix everything, finish and add the cut content on, they would have. They even went to LA and requested just that and LA denied them to do it.
Frankly, damn right LA hurried them up before it became an even more pointless cow of a game. They had to go for it whilst the hype was still strong because as a game in of itself, time would have only made it more disappointing.Again, your opinion that it was a pointless cow of a game, don't go trying to pass it off as fact. Though I will concede that hype was one of the reasons why LA was so pushy on the games early release.
All Obsidian did was take someone else's product, design a scenario pack for it, and try an overlay enough stuff to try and justify it as a new game.All they did was request Bioware's engine and skins for it. That's it.Another game like that would kill the franchise for sure.
They made up the story, characters, plots and even redesigned A LOT of the stuff from the first, such as expanding the Workbench and a adding the Chemicals bench, as well as creating new movements aswell as 'skins' for most of the characters and new devices and weapons.
And considering Ive seen sequels to other great games have less than that, woulde you consider them scenario packs aswell?
Also, it's pretty naive of you to think that they should have to redo the entire thing(Skins, engine) to match Bioware's, when all they have to do is ask them for those, just for it to be a 'new game'. And considering the fact that most sequels to games that are good these days borrow a lot from the first, why should Kotor2 be any different?
And, again, your opinion on that it wouldve killed the franchise. A lot(And I mean A LOT) of the fans from the forums I mentioned in the paragraph above said that if Obsidian had had enough time to restore that content, it wouldve an overall better game.
At any rate, I'm done debating with you. If you want the facts, go to Obsidian's website and forums and ask them, they'll just tell you the same thing I did.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
An oft-spoken myth. First of all, there is always a huge gulf between what people WANT to put in and what actually CAN go in. Don;t assume all that would have gone perfectly when, frankly, quite a bit of the stuff they did put in as planned was not great.But secondly. KOTOR's II problems were so fundamental that no amount of extra time would have significantly helped it. The fact is that it was repetitive, unimaginative, and simply had nothing really new to offer.
Frankly, damn right LA hurried them up before it became an even more pointless cow of a game. They had to go for it whilst the hype was still strong because as a game in of itself, time would have only made it more disappointing.
All Obsidian did was take someone else's product, design a scenario pack for it, and try an overlay enough stuff to try and justify it as a new game.
Another game like that would kill the franchise for sure.
I agree. My main problem with the game is the storyline, but its just TOO much like the last game to really be much of a sequel. expanding a workbench and adding a chemical bench, to me, doesn't prove innovation, it sounds really repetitive to me.
Getting to train your party as Jedi was a nice change, but it could have been handled much better. KOTOR 2 destroyed itself on Dantooine, after you spend hours and hours and hours reuiniting 3 Jedi Masters, and Traya destroys them all with one attack...
(you also realize there is NO WAY to keep her from saying you failed her? ) I've played that scene prob. 50 times, and she just fries you because. It has nothing to do with your own choices.
Originally posted by truejedi
I agree. My main problem with the game is the storyline, but its just TOO much like the last game to really be much of a sequel. expanding a workbench and adding a chemical bench, to me, doesn't prove innovation, it sounds really repetitive to me.
Getting to train your party as Jedi was a nice change, but it could have been handled much better. KOTOR 2 destroyed itself on Dantooine, after you spend hours and hours and hours reuiniting 3 Jedi Masters, and Traya destroys them all with one attack...
(you also realize there is NO WAY to keep her from saying you failed her? ) I've played that scene prob. 50 times, and she just fries you because. It has nothing to do with your own choices.
I also didn't like how with enough influence you can see the "Traya's fall" cutscene fairly early or midway through the planets you visit, now you know she was a sith and you have that vision Ludo Kresh's tomb of her and plus other stuff along the way so I knew she was going to betray me before the game was over and that was suppose to be a twist yet i saw it coming a mile away.
Yeah, I do agree that everything from the Jedi Master gathering and beyond was pretty damn weak, aswell as the influence thing was a pain in the ass along with the fact that if you turn your characters Darkside, they'll still berate you for killing innocents, well, except HK-47, of course.
I loved the darker storyline and the behind-the-scenes story it took, aswell as the advanced upgrade system, new movements, feats, weapons and swoop biking, but the fact that they never had enough time to make stronger backstories for some of the characters aswell as romance choices and that they never had any 'sub-missions' based on characters backstories like the first one had sucked.
I wished they had enough time to do that, not to mention add M4-78 and the HK Droid Factory levels, which wouldve probably made it better than the first one.
Sucks to see a lot of potential wasted just to make some extra $$$....
Nonsense all the way, City Hunter.
First of all, your first point is irreelvant. Of course people want more stuff in a game. Mind you, people ALWAYS want more stuff in a game- just look at Super Smash Bros, delayed for ages to get more in, and STILL people say 'why not more?'. That's absolutely no indication of anything else in the game. Getting stuff done on time is part of being a good programmer, and in any case it was just meere detail to an overall product that was flawed. Extras detail would not have removed those basic flaws.
Again, what they SAY they were capable of doing and what they actually would have been capable of doing are two completely different things. Judging by, say, there lifeless, second-rate adaption of Nar Shadda, I have llittle confidence that their other stuff that didn't make it in would have been much better. And sure, this is my opinion, but if you think content like that was any good, then your opinion is simply idiotic.
Oh, 'all' they did was request the engine, eh? The CORE of the game, almost completely unchanged. It really was little more than a scenario pack. Great, they wrote their own story- confused, repetitive, both derivative of and inferior to the first. Ok, they tweaked with the force powers, and made them even more dumb and ridiculous. You really think adding tiny tweaks like a chemicals bench represents anything fundamental? Again, if you think that, I can safely discount the value of your opinion.
You are simply making things up if you think that I am saying they should have made up their own engine,. My point is actually much simpler- they shouldn't have made such a damn lazy game at ALL. If all you are going to do is a couple of minor tweaks and a new storyline, release it as a data disc. That is what Bioware would have done, as can easily be seen in their expansions for Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, as KOTOR is in the same family as.
The cheek of making such a lazy, second-rate knock off of a copy of the first game as this and pretending it has value as a SEQUEL is enormous, and it desevres llittle sympathy. Bioware themselves would never have made such a thing- good for them.
Forum fans, btw, are a tiny minority. I will happily ignore their ravings about the game- and specifically, this myth that if some of that extra content had got into the game it would have been ana amzong experience... is a total nonsense myth that needs to be shot down.
You will note that I am not giving a lone opinion here. I am giving voice to what, actually, a lot of people outside of the blind hardcore felt about that game.
If you are going to do a SEQUEL- a proper sequel- you have to be much more fundamental. If KOTOR III was just ANOTHER game in the same style as the earlier ones, then yes, it would kill the franchise, I am damn cerrtain of that.
Better they wait and come up with a new basis for the game.