Classic Debate: If a tree falls in the woods...

Sure, you and your crazy voodoo physics: a sound is a frequency moving through a medium - suppose it were to cause a glass to vibrate.... is that sufficient for it to be a sound? Or does a human have to hear it? Suppose it reached someone's ears, only the electrical impulse never went to the brain? Does that make it any less of a sound? NO! The sound still exists regardless of a human noticing it.

Seriously, if I give you a floppy disk, would you say there's no data on it because you can't read it, but a computer can? Of course it's still data, an ignorance of a human is not a basis for saying something does not exist.

Originally posted by dave123
an ignorance of a human is not a basis for saying something does not exist.

Absolutely right.

Originally posted by dave123
Sure, you and your crazy voodoo physics: a sound is a frequency moving through a medium - suppose it were to cause a glass to vibrate.... is that sufficient for it to be a sound? Or does a human have to hear it? Suppose it reached someone's ears, only the electrical impulse never went to the brain? Does that make it any less of a sound? NO! The sound still exists regardless of a human noticing it.

I stay away from voodoo, it gave me a rash last time.

No, the energy exists. You obviously take the choice to label audio energy, sound. Which is fine with me.

If you grab a handful of snow and let it out of your hand, between the time you let it go and the time it hits the floor, it could be come an infinite amount of shapes.....POTENTIALLY. Why doesn't it? Because nobody has made it happen. Just like the energy created by the tree falling. The energy floating around doesn't get anything added to it's fabric to become a sound, but the outside factor that IS the receipient determines whether the last step is complete. If there's no senses to hear it and pick it up, it's just energy.

Originally posted by dave123
Seriously, if I give you a floppy disk, would you say there's no data on it because you can't read it, but a computer can? Of course it's still data, an ignorance of a human is not a basis for saying something does not exist.

It's as good as having no data on it if I don't complete the final step, that being putting it into the computer. If I put that disk next to a blank disk, both never to be used, nobody would ever know the difference. It's all about completing the cycle which lets the potential sound BECOME a sound. YOU know the disk has data because you completed the cycle, I haven't. To me it's just a disk and it always will be unless I choose to just believe there is info on it. It requires me putting the disk in to actually see the info.

The topic is, if a tree falls and nobody or nothing can hear it, is a sound made? No. Is a potential sound made? Yes.

-AC

alright fine, believe what u wanna believe.

Gee, thanks Leo 😉.

I was beginning to think I had to believe others for a second there.

-AC

No, a sound isn't determined by whether it is heard or not... what you are thinking of as a "sound" is the electrical impulse to the brain. If I were to electrocute someone's ear nerve thing and made them THINK they heard something, that isn't a sound. But by your definition, it is.... see?

Originally posted by dave123
No, a sound isn't determined by whether it is heard or not... what you are thinking of as a "sound" is the electrical impulse to the brain. If I were to electrocute someone's ear nerve thing and made them THINK they heard something, that [b]isn't a sound. But by your definition, it is.... see? [/B]

You're saying a sound isn't determined by whether it's heard or not...and you truly believe that components make it a sound?

Let's go back to your radio analogy. Radiowaves in the air, nobody turns on the radio. The energy exists, the waves exist, correct?

Can you listen to them without fulfilling the role of the receiver and turning on the radio? Yes or no?

-AC

According to my dictionary 'sound' is: "1. what is heard 2. noise..." so then it would be fair to say that if noone hears it there is no sound.

Sound does not exist without something to hear it... there are vibrations in the air, yes, but without something to receive those vibrations there is no sound.

anyway, this is a rhetorical question not meant to be answered...

I tried putting it as simple as that, it didn't work to well.

Hence my above posts.

-AC

in answer to your question, a woodchuck could chuck 2 chordes of wood per minute if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

I think Dave123's definition of sound is incomplete. I say this because it looks as though it has been cut off thus being taken out of context. From what I can see in my dictionary, which in all honesty is not the complete authority of the world, sound "is the objective cause of hearing". I admit it is taken out of context just to add fuel to the flame. Based on this and my reasoning which I admit is not always sane, a sound was not made but vibrations did occur. Others may prefer to say that energy was displaced by the realization of the potential energy that was released into kinetic energy as one person may have observed by the debris or evidence of a fallen tree. Now the question may be do we need evidence of the occurence to say that it happened at all? I would like to say no because I would be too self centered to say that if something doesn't affect me then it doesn't happen. I like this question because it brings up many other issues . Just giving my two cents. Thanks for reading.

If a wood chuck could chuck wood , how much wood would a wood chuck chuck?

A wood chuck would chuck as much wood as a wood chuck could chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood.

You know give the wood chuck the benefit of the doubt. 😆

Regardless of whether WE hear the tree falling or not a living creature around it (and most trees are in areas that have plenty of living creatures) would have heard it hit.

But that's a different question entirely 🙂 You don't always hear a tree FALLING in the woods... you hear it hitting the ground 😄

Not only does the tree not make a sound (human invented concept), but it doesn't even fall or even exist without human observation. Things can only happen and exist when we are aware of them.

This is about the same question as the dreaded " If a tree falls on a mime and no one is around to see it, does anyone care?"

The answer to both is no, not really, I'm doing fine thanks for asking or something to that effect.

This is when you forget about the dead thing called the mime and the fallen tree and leave.

*walks away forgetting entirely about the mangled corpses*

Originally posted by space
Not only does the tree not make a sound (human invented concept), but it doesn't even fall or even exist without human observation. Things can only happen and exist when we are aware of them.

OK then...If a tree falls on your house and nobody is around, did it make a sound?? Maybe it's just a human concept and the tree is still standing.. Arn't you glad the insurance agent wouldn't say it's only a concept?

Where did these living creatures come from? The idea is that no receivers are around.

-AC

But you as in humans cannot hear a dog whistle while obviously the dogs can so yuo could argu that doesnt exist althought you know it does just because you cant hear or see it doesnt mean it doesnt exist

What if a dog did not react to the dog whistle?
1. Is the dog deaf?
2. IS thewhistle broken
3. Do you test it on another dog?
4. IS the whistle still making a sound?

If you have to ask these questions
then you may realize that we are judging that the whistle makes a sound based on what we observe IE. the dogs reaction.