I think this is a question that plays on mans ego. Are we arrogant to belive that the universe can exist only because we exist, or, is is just possible that it continue to exist even without us. Who knows? ... More important i think, If a tree falls in the forest and noone is around to hear it, how will it affect you?
I answered this in the "Explain Real If you Can" thread, heres part of my reply:
"Scientifically speaking, we can say that only measurable things are real, because if you cannot obtain any evidence to assure the reality of an idea you cannot say that its real. Thats not the act of obtaining evidence that makes something real, but it is the possibility of observation/verification/experience/consciousness of that idea, or simply if that idea has the power to make any difference in our experienced environment.
Actually, there is a philosopher named Karl Popper that created a concept which is the "falsifiability" of an idea. For an idea to be falsifiable, it must be possible in principle to make an observation that would show the proposition to be false, even if that observation has not been made. For example, the proposition "All crows are black" would be falsified by observing one white crow. In other words, he tells that an idea or theory is only scientifically real if it can be tested. But do not think my thoughts are in some way limited, because I´m often making reference to science. After all science studies the universe in many ways, physically, psychologically, biologically, theologically, etc...
But I think the part of my post which says "if you cannot obtain any evidence to assure the reality of an idea you cannot say that its real." resume it all."
So I think that sound and that tree does not exist before someone see it, and it is the point of view of quantum physics as well. Someone in this thread said "that's just like saying a ray of light isn't a ray of light until it reaches our eyes", and its actually truth scientifically because if a photon is not detect then it does not exist as a photon yet. And if you say a sound occurs somewhere isolated where no one can perceive it or its effects, then its not a sound. Science tells us that the "molecules" that are vibrating to create the sound are not even molecules.
Originally posted by debbiejo
The sub particles are alive and always changing, acting and reacting.
No... if those molecules are so isolated that they don´t interact with you in any way, the Heisenberg´s principle of uncertainty says that they are not in any particular state(like vibrating to produce a sound). Its like the Schroedinger´s Cat a thought experiment of the quantum physics:
A cat is placed in a sealed box. Attached to the box is an apparatus containing a radioactive nucleus and a canister of poison gas. The experiment is set up so that there is a 50% chance of the nucleus decaying in one hour. If the nucleus decays, it will emit a particle that triggers the apparatus, which opens the canister and kills the cat. According to quantum mechanics, the unobserved nucleus is described as a superposition (mixture) of "decayed nucleus" and "undecayed nucleus". However, when the box is opened the experimenter sees only a "decayed nucleus/dead cat" or a "undecayed nucleus/living cat."
In quantum mechanics before we observe the state of the cat, he is in a "superposed state", what means he is neither "alive" or "dead", and only assumed one of the states when we observed it.
well i can see this is a childs riddle the answers is real simple
(THE perception or reception of sound has no bearing on its transmission.
reception is only an means to test the transmission
and
perception is only a means to understand it
thus makes no difference if you are deaf
a fine example of this is an artist known as beethoven who was completely deaf but we all hear his music he could not so did it make a difference to the music he made
a fine example of the vision varient is if i cant see you you cant see me well its is not true.cant belive it took so long to answer and nobody got it
ps the answer was in the origional question
IF A TREE SHOULD FALL IN THE WOODS AND NOBODY IS AROUND TO HEAR IT DOES IT MAKE A SOUND
if nobody was around to HEAR the (sound made) does it make a sound
well yes cos it did according to the origional question i suppose thats what ya would call 2 easy solutions
Of course if ya wanna be padantic ya could get technical but its a simple question and doesnt need a dictionary to answer it
not to make a fool out of everyone just pointing out
just to add one last point everything you see or heard is percieved by a persons brain or your brain
which means you could be seeing things lol
just a thought but what if everybody sees somthing that isnt there, is it there? if every one can see it then surely. Its all an illusion
Re: Classic Debate: If a tree falls in the woods...
Originally posted by buttafly
...and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? I've debated this with my friend and because her favourite subject is SCIENCE, she argues that sounds still exists even though no one else can hear it. What are you thoughts on this??
Yes, put a video camera with a mic in the woods and have a tree fall..no one is around to hear it but if you review the tape you will hear the tree falling. Case closed.
Why we cannot say that Santa Claus exist?
Because no one has ever heard or saw him, just like the sound of the trees in the woods.
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The sound of the trees, and Santa Claus are perfect analogies in my example above. If we can say that the sound is real, then we can assume that Santa Claus is real as well.
so because the hermit hasn't been seen he doesn't exist? if you stayed in a cave for all your life you don't exist? How about the vast majority of the world. They will never see you, therefore to them you don't exist? The tree falling still makes a sound. It stand to reason that there are always organisms around and most of them can "hear" or "feel" a tree falling therefore it has been received by something, just maybe not something that can let us know.
By the way, Santa doesn't exist in the way we think because come Christmas we have no magical gifts that no one knows where they came from. Might he exist somewhere, sure.
A morbidly obese man never sees his feet :-) does that mean they don't exist?
Originally posted by Shadwofathought
so because the hermit hasn't been seen he doesn't exist? if you stayed in a cave for all your life you don't exist? How about the vast majority of the world. They will never see you, therefore to them you don't exist? The tree falling still makes a sound. It stand to reason that there are always organisms around and most of them can "hear" or "feel" a tree falling therefore it has been received by something, just maybe not something that can let us know.By the way, Santa doesn't exist in the way we think because come Christmas we have no magical gifts that no one knows where they came from. Might he exist somewhere, sure.
A morbidly obese man never sees his feet :-) does that mean they don't exist?
None of the things you listed are perceptions. Likewise, they all exist whether or not their existence is perceived.
Sound is an interpretation of air vibrations; it is a perception. If nothing is their to interpret air vibrations as sound, there is no sound.