Classic Debate: If a tree falls in the woods...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Sound is [b]an interpretation of air vibrations; it is a perception. If nothing is their to interpret air vibrations as sound, there is no sound. [/B]

Not true....it still makes a sound....has nothing to do with what hears it..

I can sneeze in my house, and if no one hears it cause they're not home..did it make a sound...even if I was deaf....even if I was comatose?

And what about the animals? They must sense the fall, maybe even hear it, or when you go into the forest there would be all these dead moose and chip munks crushed! Crushed I say!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Not true....it still makes a sound....has nothing to do with what hears it..

I can sneeze in my house, and if no one hears it cause they're not home..did it make a sound...even if I was deaf....even if I was comatose?

Incorrect. Nowhere did I state that sound is dependent upon what detects it. Rather, I stated that sound is dpendent upon being detected. If it is not detected, it is categorically not a sound.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Incorrect. Nowhere did I state that sound is dependent upon what detects it. Rather, I stated that sound is dpendent upon being detected. If it is not detected, it is categorically not a sound.

But when you use the word "detected" that is stating being felt or heard in someway.

[n] the act of detecting something; catching sight of something
[n] the investigation of criminal activities to determine the perpetrator; "detection is hard on the feet"
[n] the perception that something has occurred or some state exists; "early detection can often lead to a cure"
[n] the detection that a signal is being received

Just because it's not being detected doesn't mean it didn't make a sound

Originally posted by debbiejo
Just because it's not being detected doesn't mean it didn't make a sound

Actually, that's exactly what it means.

For some reason I am reminded of the post modern historians, one of whom went on about "If a Grecian Urn is buried in a desert, undiscovered, unknown, does it actually exist?" To be honest I don't like him. Bit of a fool. Still...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Actually, that's exactly what it means.

Only through receptors..Not all things have receptors and still the action
does occure....You must be talking about things in a vacme then....

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Actually, that's exactly what it means.

Confused....are we agreeing?

Originally posted by Shadwofathought
so because the hermit hasn't been seen he doesn't exist? if you stayed in a cave for all your life you don't exist? How about the vast majority of the world. They will never see you, therefore to them you don't exist? The tree falling still makes a sound. It stand to reason that there are always organisms around and most of them can "hear" or "feel" a tree falling therefore it has been received by something, just maybe not something that can let us know.

By the way, Santa doesn't exist in the way we think because come Christmas we have no magical gifts that no one knows where they came from. Might he exist somewhere, sure.

A morbidly obese man never sees his feet :-) does that mean they don't exist?

I did not say that Santa Claus doesn´t exist, I said that we cannot say that he exist. When we cannot prove something, we simply don´t know if it exists or not. So if someone is isolated from the world, he cannot say that it doesn´t exist, he will simply not know if it exists or not.

None of the things you listed are perceptions. Likewise, they all exist whether or not their existence is perceived.
Sound is an interpretation of air vibrations; it is a perception. If nothing is their to interpret air vibrations as sound, there is no sound.

Everything that exists are perceptions, the world is a perception, the universe is a perception. If you are talking about a sound that is not a perception, and its was not sensed, then it is only the platonic ideal of a sound that you are talking about. We cannot even say that a tree feel in the woods if we do not have the perception of this event, directly or indirectly.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Confused....are we agreeing?

I think so.IMO if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it it is still a sound,even though no one heard it. As long as the air vibrates to make the sound it is there fore a sound.
🙂

Originally posted by debbiejo
Only through receptors..Not all things have receptors and still the action
does occure....You must be talking about things in a vacme then....

Whether or not the action occurs, e.g. the tree falls and the air vibrates, is not in question. Sound however, is not this vibration, but the interpretation of this vibration by a receptor. If there are no receptors to interpret the vibration as sound, it is not sound.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Whether or not the action occurs, e.g. the tree falls and the air vibrates, is not in question. Sound however, is not this vibration, but the interpretation of this vibration by a receptor. If there are no receptors to interpret the vibration as sound, it is not sound.

this may sound strange, but what about entities, spirits and such? We can't perceive them, but they do exist. They are always around to hear it, or feel the vibrations.

The cosmos does not need us to function correctly. So if a tree falls in the woods, it will make a sound just like if you mix backing soda with vinegar it will foam up and pore over.

Originally posted by debbiejo
this may sound strange, but what about entities, spirits and such? We can't perceive them, but they do exist. They are always around to hear it, or feel the vibrations.

I do not believe in the existence of disembodied spirits, e.g. ghosts, etc. However, I do believe in the existence of ghost phenomena resulting from Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokenesis and Repressed Psychokenetic Energy.

Then I guess it's a stale Mate.

I can tell you a tale where... " a tree fall in the woods and made the air vibrate producing a sound", but its only a tale, it will be true only if it is a perceivable event. If it is just a hyphothesis that can´t be ever proved even in the future, then it is just a tale. If it is not perceivable its just an idea. Scientific method agrees with that.

Originally posted by debbiejo
this may sound strange, but what about entities, spirits and such? We can't perceive them, but they do exist. They are always around to hear it, or feel the vibrations.

By what I believe, if we say that spirits exists and that they can always be aware of those sounds, independent of when or where they happen, then those sounds will always exist.

✅

Then the tree doesn make a sound...yes?

If the spirits have conciousness like us, and can perceive the sound, then the sound will exist. It will not exist only if no one can perceive it, and if it does not affect us even indirectly. For it to not exist, it must be totally isolated from everything.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I do not believe in the existence of disembodied spirits, e.g. ghosts, etc. However, I do believe in the existence of ghost phenomena resulting from Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokenesis and Repressed Psychokenetic Energy.

What are those?

Set up some damn Video Cameras and just wait for one to fall.Then we will know.